Have Toyota stopped making the hatchback

[olddriver]

IT's a shame if they have.

[FROSTYBALLS]

The hatchback ceased with the introduction of the T27 in 2009 - just the saloon and tourer (estate) continued.

[Konrad C]

That is why I own the Tourer after previously owning only hatchbacks. 

I wonder what the ratio of sales between the saloons and the tourer for the Avensis T27? 

[perdaniel]

17 hours ago, Konrad C said:

That is why I own the Tourer after previously owning only hatchbacks. 
 

What is it that you find attractive about the hatchback?

[FROSTYBALLS]

23 minutes ago, perdaniel said:

What is it that you find attractive about the hatchback?

May depend on how one uses the car.

For example - my wife occasionally carries a therapy table, and depending which of her couches she uses, this weighs between 15 and 22kg. Most cars require the rear seats to be folded, and, for ease of loading due to the physical size of the folded couch, rear light intrusion into the hatch opening needs to be minimal (ie have a nice square hatch opening).

[Konrad C]

8 hours ago, perdaniel said:

What is it that you find attractive about the hatchback?

Quite a few times, I may carry my Dahon Cadenza folding bike with 26" wheels, 16 speed. There is still plenty of room. I have carried a wardrobe, and other furniture/large items. The flexible load cover helps too. The saloon would have left me stranded or I would need to use roof bars, which is not always ideal, due to weight restrictions - I am not keen on carrying some item on the roof! I have carried fridges and washing machines in my previous Mk1 hatchback.
Basically it is the flexibility of the estate/hatchback over the saloon, even with the seats up. Look at and compare the intrusive suspension/wheel arches of the T27 models.

[Cyker]

It's funny, I have the opposite view - Why would you go for a saloon over a hatchback? Hatchbacks are just so much more practical! And they have rear windscreen wipers! I've never seen a saloon with a rear windscreen wiper for some weird reason!

 

[perdaniel]

14 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

May depend on how one uses the car.

For example - my wife occasionally carries a therapy table, and depending which of her couches she uses, this weighs between 15 and 22kg. Most cars require the rear seats to be folded, and, for ease of loading due to the physical size of the folded couch, rear light intrusion into the hatch opening needs to be minimal (ie have a nice square hatch opening).

 

5 hours ago, Konrad C said:

Quite a few times, I may carry my Dahon Cadenza folding bike with 26" wheels, 16 speed. There is still plenty of room. I have carried a wardrobe, and other furniture/large items. The flexible load cover helps too. The saloon would have left me stranded or I would need to use roof bars, which is not always ideal, due to weight restrictions - I am not keen on carrying some item on the roof! I have carried fridges and washing machines in my previous Mk1 hatchback.
Basically it is the flexibility of the estate/hatchback over the saloon, even with the seats up. Look at and compare the intrusive suspension/wheel arches of the T27 models.

I can see that the hatchback is more practical than the saloon. I have a '01 saloon myself, and I have often uttered words best not repeated in civilised company over the minuscule opening between the boot and the cabin. What I don't understand is why some would prefer a long hatchback over an estate on a car the size of an Avensis. I can understand the preference for a short hatchback, especially on a Corolla/Golf sized car, as you get a large hatch with a car that is much shorter than an estate (in some cases).

[perdaniel]

50 minutes ago, Cyker said:

It's funny, I have the opposite view - Why would you go for a saloon over a hatchback? Hatchbacks are just so much more practical! And they have rear windscreen wipers! I've never seen a saloon with a rear windscreen wiper for some weird reason!

 

I must have some issues with expressing my views in English. Everybody seems to think that I compared the hatchback only to the saloon. I was comparing it to both the saloon and the estate. If both an Avensis estate and a saloon is available, why buy a hatchback?

Edited October 26, 2017 by perdaniel
forgot questionmark

[Cyker]

Oooh I seeee, yeah that is a more interesting comparison!

I guess although the estate/sportback/tourer/stationwagon version is only a bit longer, it's still longer and for some people (Like me!) that can make a difference; Like, I've discounted the new Yaris because it's 4m long vs my one which is 3.6m - That is enough to make finding parking that much more difficult!

That and there is a psychological thing as well I think with estate versions - Where in reality it's only a bit longer because it's on the same wheelbase, people automatically assume it's like driving a lorry 
 

[Konrad C]

2 hours ago, perdaniel said:

I must have some issues with expressing my views in English. Everybody seems to think that I compared the hatchback only to the saloon. I was comparing it to both the saloon and the estate. If both an Avensis estate and a saloon is available, why buy a hatchback?

I think I understand what you are saying, but correct me if I am wrong. The first two models of of Avensis, T22 and T25 had three body types - hatchback, saloon and estate. In the UK the hatchback and saloon cost the same, whilst the estate cost more. In the UK, the hatchback was the popular choice. When Toyota decided not to make a hatchback version of the T27, the estate was the go to car (for me). Also the Avensis is one of the smallest in class compared to rival models. 

[alan333]

16 hours ago, perdaniel said:

Everybody seems to think that I compared the hatchback only to the saloon. I was comparing it to both the saloon and the estate. If both an Avensis estate and a saloon is available, why buy a hatchback?

Personally I'd have a hatchback.  I think an estate looks like a working car (my Mother says all estates look like heubiks), and a hatchback looks like a personal use car, but it has the ability to carry fridge sized objects when the occasion arises.

I wonder what the ration of hatchback:saloon T22 and T25 Avensis' was.  I see lots more T25 hatches around than saloons (or estates for that matter), although I don't see many T22's around any more.  Similarly there are lots more Ford Focus hatches around than saloons, or previous model Mazda 6 hatch to saloons, or Vectra hatches to saloons, or Golfs to Boras etc.

As I understand it - the manufacturers say a saloon is more upmarket so it commands a better price.  But surely the object is to sell more cars - maybe if it was still sold as a hatch they would still be selling them in their old numbers.   According to this (Toyota) document http://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/files_mf/1507211890ToyotaUKbymodelToyota6517.pdf the Avensis sold 26000 in the UK at it's peak in 2004 against a mere 5000 in 2016 (although it doesn't state the particular model variants).  And according to this (non Toyota) document http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/toyota/toyota-avensis/ the European figures were 142000 at it's peak in 2004 against 35000 in 2016.  Or maybe I'm reading too much into the figures - maybe it's just that in 2004 the Avensis was a better buy than it's competitors where in 2016 that wasn't the case.

Interesting to note that Mercedes - the home of the saloon - now sells a few hatchbacks.

 

edit - I've edited it twice now for the word "heubiks".  For some reason it seems I'm not allowed heubiks.  And just in case it still edits that word out - I'm talking about the big long black estate looking cars in which one would make their final journey in life to a cemetery.

[alan333]

I've figured out why I'm not allowed heubiks.  It has the letters ae arr ess ee in the middle, like a rude word for bum.  Or posterior if it also edits that word out.

[Cyker]

Ahaha, that's hilarious 
 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Historically, in the UK hatchback versions of cars have always outsold the equivalent saloon or estate versions. Which I think is different to other European countries.

We've bought new cars from five market sectors, including the sector the Avensis resides in, and we've always chosen the hatchback over the saloon or estate version. For us, the saloon is too restrictive and we don't need the estate. 

After the Auris was introduced in 2007, Toyota ceased importing the Corolla saloon (which is basically a saloon equivalent to the Auris, but with a longer wheelbase), presumably due to the expected low sales volumes.

Similarly other manufacturers tend not to import saloon versions of models where hatchback versions exist - eg Astra, Focus.

[revband]

On 27/10/2017 at 6:00 PM, alan333 said:

I've figured out why I'm not allowed heubiks.  It has the letters ae arr ess ee in the middle, like a rude word for bum.  Or posterior if it also edits that word out.

We used to have a contributor on here from S$%&^(*)Ihorpe, he had the same problem.

That is Scun thorpe without the space.

Edited October 28, 2017 by revband
Correction

[Owdjockey]

Had a hatchback for 13 years and carted ballast, sand, metal, bricks in it. Like Konrad I carried my bike , which was not a folding version, just a tight squeeze. I also slept in the back with the seats down on many an occassion without my feet touching the rear. Now I have an 2008 Tourer, which although is the same distance in the back it has a floor level with the bumper, the old hatchback had a lip which was a pain for heavy loads. Sleeping in the back of the hatch meant also it was far lighter with all that glass (not so good in the summer). The Tourer is far more practical for a host of reasons.