Gen II buying advice

[Stuckupahill]

Hi 

I'm looking for some guidance and advice from Prius owners.

I'm in the market for a used Prius, but my budget is fairly small (£3k-£4k) ideally nearer the lower figure.

For that sort of money I can get an 06/07 model with between 50-100k miles. All cars I'm considering have a full service history and 1 or 2 owners.

I aim to keep the car for a long time, probably until something major goes bang. The reasons for buying a Prius in the first place is that we need a safe, reliable, automatic family car which is cheap to run. The fact that it's a hybrid is a bonus. 

We do 8-10k miles a year. Most of those miles are the school run (3 mile round trip) with the odd weekend trip away and a couple of camping holidays to France. 

Should I spend all my money (£4k) on a lower mileage car or go for the higher mileage and keep a grand back to pay for potentially expensive repairs?

Interested to hear former and current owners views on the gen II and why you sold them or have kept them going.

 I've also considered a Honda Insight (again because of low running costs) but i wonder if it's small engine will be up for carrying heavy camping gear across France.

Thanks in advance

Andy

 

 

[PeteB]

Hi Andy

First thing to say about buying a Gen 2 Prius is get the rear springs checked - this only seems to affect the Gen 2, but a high number seem to break.  You can't tell from driving it - usually it's discovered at MOT time or during a service, followed by a repair bill.

I've owned two Gen 1, one Gen 3 and 1 Gen 4 Prius, but not actually a Gen 2 of my own - I did cover some 50,000 miles in company Gen 2s though, and manged a fleet of over 200 Gen 2s used as London minicabs from 2007 to 2011.  I can say apart from springs, we had very little trouble with them, and generally kept them up to about 100,000 miles (only reason they got changed was a 3 year lease period).  Reading varies sites like this one, the odd car suffers from a failed Inverter (voltage converter) or failed HV Battery.  Both are expensive to diagnose and fix, but very rare, although this is no consolation if you're unlucky enough to be afflicted.

The Hybrid system on the Gen 2 is very similar to the Gen 1, and my second Gen 1 did 163,000 miles in the 9 years I owned it.  I did hear the HV Battery needed some new cells at about 180,000, which is unusual.  The only other issues were new discs and pads all round at about 80,000 miles and a failed A/C compressor at about the same time.  Both were caused by the car only being driven once every two weeks or so for the year I used the company Gen 2 Prius.  The discs rusted heavily, and the A/C compressor dried out and the seals failed.  The Gen 2 (and later) models would have the A/C problem because they gained electric compressors rather than the engine driven type in the Gen 1.  That said, some non-Hybrid cars I've owned were on their third set of brakes at that mileage.

One or two staff at the taxi firm even bought ex taxi Prius, and I would certainly not have ruled that out myself if I was looking for something in that price range, but not everyone would agree with that.

The fact that the car will do lots of short (3 mile) trips will mean your mpg will not be as good as some as the car will be spending a high proportion of it's time in the warm-up cycle, but almost all cars suffer from short journeys.

I have driven a couple of Honda Insights and found them almost as satisfying to drive as the Prius, with a couple of caveats:

1. when putting the transmission in P (park), for example when waiting at traffic lights, the engine will run continuously whether it needs to (for Battery charging or cabin heat) or not - this I found ridiculous (and very annoying) - if you put the car in P you're obviously not planning to go anywhere!
2. the very low rear roof-line makes entry and exit for taller people very hard, and they are unable to sit upright in the back.  Rear legroom is not as good either.  Very comfortable for two in the front though.

Yes, it is less powerful than a Prius, but I found the performance adequate.  That said, I never tried one heavily loaded.  It's not as economic as a Prius, mainly to to the simpler design of the Hybrid bits (just one electric motor instead of two in the Prius).  It can't run on electric only without the engine turning, albeit occasionally with the engine not firing or consuming petrol.  It is also mechanically more complex - it has a real CVT gearbox and torque converter, which the Prius doesn't require due to it's mechanically simple power-split device (aka transaxle).

I liked the quality of the interior of the Insight more than a Gen 2 or 3 Prius, but that's just a matter of preference.

 

 

[Stuckupahill]

Hi Pete,

Thanks for your comprehensive reply.

I didn't know about the rear springs problem. I'm guessing it could be difficult to check unless you get the wheel off (I've never actually seen a Prius in the flesh yet, let alone driven one! There aren't many around here.). Hopefully if it's got a new MOT then the springs should be OK. I had a google around replacing them and at least it looks like a job any garage could tackle.

What I'm trying to figure out is whether miles or time has the biggest effect on the expensive bits i.e. the hybrid Battery, inverter + transaxle...and what difference  an extra 50,000 will have on them. In a normal car I'd always go for the lowest mileage, but from what you say a car that has been used regularly may also have its problems.

I've got my eye on a couple on Autotrader...Looking at the MOT History check website the first one has (presumably) had its springs replaced after failing the MOT. Interested in any thoughts on these 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201710150313188?advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1500&price-from=3000&price-to=4000&postcode=cf831bd&sort=sponsored&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&make=TOYOTA&model=PRIUS&page=3

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201708198484558?sort=sponsored&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&postcode=cf831bd&price-to=4000&radius=1500&price-from=3000&advertising-location=at_cars&make=TOYOTA&model=PRIUS&page=2

I think I've ruled out the Insight now..unless I spot a real bargain. 

Thanks again

 

Andy

 

 

 

[PeteB]

My gut feeling is that regular use is good for a Hybrid Battery, and also the brakes seem to rust away if it's parked a lot of the time.  My last Gen 3 was used almost every single day, mainly for short journeys, but with a few very long ones once or twice a month.  When I traded it for my current one at 60,000 miles, the brakes were only ¼ worn, and looked good for not needing new pads or discs until about ¼ million miles (I make sure I only brake hard enough to use regenerative braking as much as possible).

Of the two above, the first one looks tidier and more cared for in the photos (although it doesn't have the Side Protection Mouldings mentioned in the details - the second one does).  The second one looks tatty inside and I notice the material looks like it's fraying on the front centre armrest, suggesting it's had a hard life rather than just regular use.  They are both the well spec'd T-Spirits, have similar mileages and are 56 plate.  The first is £200 more which probably reflects the better appearance.

If possible, I'd try to drive both and see if either displays any noises or jolts or evidence of any problems.  They should be very smooth, no matter how inconsiderate you are with the accelerator.  The car will normally go through a warm-up procedure for the first few minutes when started from cold.  Unless hard acceleration is demanded, it will run mostly on Battery power during this time while the engine timing is shifted to a very inefficient mode that heats it up more quickly, so expect the Battery gauge to go quite low during this time.  The gauge will normally fluctuate between 2 and 6 bars during normal driving.  The Gen 2 had firmer suspension than other generations and it can be quite crashy over bumps and pot holes.

But there's never any guarantee that nothing is lurking hidden away.  In my early driving days I traded a reliable 2 year old Fiat 126 for a 9 month old 127 to avoid problems, and got loads of breakdowns and expensive bills with the newer car.  I then bought my first brand new car (a Mk 1 Fiesta) and it was even worse (repairs were cheaper, but it needed lots and lots of them), and Ford were terrible then at honouring the warranty (and never once loaned me a car even when it was off the road for a week just 6 weeks from new after the instrument panel melted and belched smoke while I was driving!).

Transaxale failures are almost unheard of at any mileage, and the few inverter or HV battery failures I've heard of had been a mixture of ages and mileage, so I think its mainly down to luck.  It might also be influenced by type of terrain and journeys there car has endured, how much the driver has let the HV battery get very low or very high by parking in N, using the EV button or maxing it out going down very long steep hills frequently.  I've never come across any data that allows these effects to be analysed though.

Maxing out a battery is rare for most people, unless you live somewhere like hilly parts of Devon or Scotland.  I never experienced a full battery until I had my Gen 1 Prius for some 4 years and 75,000 miles, when I went on a 2½ week tour of Scotland and saw the battery max out every day.

[PeteB]

and yes, the rear springs can be done by any competent mechanic - one or two owners on the Yahoo Prius group have even done their own.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Prius-UK/conversations/messages

[PeteB]

BTW you may well see a bargain Insight.  They were never as popular as I think they deserved to be, and Honda stopped selling them (and the Jazz with the same system) a few years ago.

[Stuckupahill]

Thanks again for the replies.

That first one has sold already - no surprise given the price. The second does look a bit tatty so is moving down the list... The problem for me is they are all quite far away so I need to be pretty sure of it before trekking all that way for a test drive. There's a couple more for around the £4k I'm making inquiries about. 

There's a dealer on Autotrader called WMS who seems to buy up quite a lot of them at auction - but he has quite a mixed rep - not sure I'd want to buy from him even if the car looked ok.

I actually learned to drive in my dad's Fiat 127 Palio - don't remember him having too many problems with it. I remember it having a strange cloth or vinyl type sunroof which leaked a bit...

If the Insight has the same CVT system as the Jazz then it's another negative for me...it's got some terrible reviews for reliability....

If you spot a Prius contender do let me know. I've got till the end of November when the MOT runs out on our current car!

Cheers

 

 

[Badshot]

Hi Buddy,

I was in the same predicament as you a few weeks ago and purchased a 131k 57 plate (registered Mid December 2007 so only a couple of weeks off being an 08) for £2800.

It was a main dealer part exchange owned by one chap from new who had also owned a Gen 1, and had recently been offered a great deal on a Gen 4. The dealer sent it straight to auction I then picked it up the car but I battled for it against a couple of car dealers who wanted it. I won but paid more than I wanted, luckily it turned out to have full Toyota history and was only serviced in July having also had a hybrid Battery check.

There is no knowing the future regarding when / if a car will fail, all you can do is buy the best you can afford at the time. It appears that its pot luck as to what issues will arise and with the help of the forums they can usually be rectified relatively easily without massive cost. I tried to avoid lower mileage cars as I thought that there HV batteries would have maybe had a harder time, having seen a few examples online that had had failed with less miles.

Anyway good luck in your search theres lots out there, all I would say is be prepared to travel as the best cars will unlikely be on your doorstep, just arrange to see a couple that may not be too far from each other, try and buy from the owner so you can ask in more detail about the car, and go with your gut!

[johalareewi]

2 hours ago, Badshot said:

purchased a 131k 57 plate (registered Mid December 2007 so only a couple of weeks off being an 08) 

08 plate started 1st March 2008.

[Stuckupahill]

On 31/10/2017 at 7:12 AM, Badshot said:

Hi Buddy,

I was in the same predicament as you a few weeks ago and purchased a 131k 57 plate (registered Mid December 2007 so only a couple of weeks off being an 08) for £2800.

It was a main dealer part exchange owned by one chap from new who had also owned a Gen 1, and had recently been offered a great deal on a Gen 4. The dealer sent it straight to auction I then picked it up the car but I battled for it against a couple of car dealers who wanted it. I won but paid more than I wanted, luckily it turned out to have full Toyota history and was only serviced in July having also had a hybrid battery check.

There is no knowing the future regarding when / if a car will fail, all you can do is buy the best you can afford at the time. It appears that its pot luck as to what issues will arise and with the help of the forums they can usually be rectified relatively easily without massive cost. I tried to avoid lower mileage cars as I thought that there HV batteries would have maybe had a harder time, having seen a few examples online that had had failed with less miles.

Anyway good luck in your search theres lots out there, all I would say is be prepared to travel as the best cars will unlikely be on your doorstep, just arrange to see a couple that may not be too far from each other, try and buy from the owner so you can ask in more detail about the car, and go with your gut!

Cheers for that. Used car buying is always a lottery - but knowing what to look for helps cut the odds a bit.  I wondered about buying from auction but not sure if the cost of the fees makes it worthwhile - I'd be adding around £500 to the hammer price.

Did the price you paid include fees or was it hammer price? I'd be interested to know what the cars I'm looking at go for at auction.

Has anyone used this guy https://flippingcars.co.uk/cars/

 

 

 

[Badshot]

7 hours ago, johalareewi said:

08 plate started 1st March 2008.

Yes I know that, I was referring to the fact that given a couple of weeks it would still be a 57 plate but registered in 08

[MEP's Yaris GS]

On 10/31/2017 at 4:58 PM, Badshot said:

Yes I know that, I was referring to the fact that given a couple of weeks it would still be a 57 plate but registered in 08

It would still have been a 2007 car however. People seem to get too caught up on the date of registration.