Terrible headlights

[AisinW]

2 hours ago, Mojo1010 said:

First fitted hid to projector about 15 years ago. Bought whole projector light units for a car at the time, changed of style and also looks modern. Then found normal halogen bulbs were dim due to the cut off in the projectors. So started the hid use from there. 

Used hid on last car MK3 Yaris for about 5 years, passing MOT no problem, last test were nov'2022. Declared mod to insurance, didn't charge anything extra, great. Would have reflectors light units all day if using halogen bulbs over projectors.

Now have a MK4 Yaris with led so sold the hid units on. The LEDs are good at night when it is not raining, but not good when it does. 6000K temp I don't like, had 4300-5000k on hid previously. 

I think HID or xenon always need headlight jet sprayer/cleaner because of wellknown 3200 lumens on them. In Europe, more than 2000 lumens needs washer. 

On the other hand, LED varies and Corolla/Auris bi-LED and matrix LED are less than 2000 lumens. Therefore, washer is not required. The V45 i have is about 4200 lumens but MOT guys never know how much lumens in LED. They may measure the intensity (LUX) but that is relative to distance and headlight type (projector has lower hot spot intensity than reflector but more homogenous and wider). 

@Mojo1010 is lucky, the MOT guy is ignorant about xenon requirement. LED does not require new harness for the ballast and relays, exactly like halogen, just mount it on. Fortunately Auris and Yaris have large enough room for LED with fan and driver unit. 

[WazWii]

I know this is slightly off-topic but recently I have had trouble with oncoming cars where it seems their headlights are adjusting?

They seem to be angled at a really bad point but as you get closer they adjust. But it is terrible. I have had to on three occassions apply the brakes because the glare is just immense. 

These are LED's too and I can tell because they are really white and crystal clear but when that hits your eyes it is not nice. 

[Bper]

You are certainly not alone with this issue,  with a mixture of poor headlights and glare from other motorists this has led to many people avoiding driving at night. The intensity from headlights are even worse when it is raining or misty and whilst anti glare glasses are available it's no fun especially on country roads with many drivers not dipping their headlights and driving on full beam. Out vision really suffers.😎

 

[AisinW]

13 hours ago, WazWii said:

I know this is slightly off-topic but recently I have had trouble with oncoming cars where it seems their headlights are adjusting?

They seem to be angled at a really bad point but as you get closer they adjust. But it is terrible. I have had to on three occassions apply the brakes because the glare is just immense. 

These are LED's too and I can tell because they are really white and crystal clear but when that hits your eyes it is not nice. 

It is true that our eyes is more sensitive to shorter wave length (blue) than yellow but also our brain works better with white lights.  Ironically, those original factory very bright headlights that often blind us in bumpy roads (the leveling sensors is too slow to adjust) are legal, but annoy me too.  That's why I click down when I install LED bulbs on my Auris.  I never get flashed or honged by anyone on the roads that way.  If I keep it at 0 level, sometimes  I got flashed by incoming driver on bumpy roads. 

The accidents caused by insufficient illumination on the roads are still much higher than any other cause.  That's why driving during the day is still the safest. Now, I drive more confidently at night but still avoid it.  For me, Toyota is just plain stupid on Auris, Aygo, Yaris Halogen projector type headlights even they use HIR2 (the brightest).  If they use reflector designs, the illumination will be much better if Toyota insists on using halogen. 

[Cyker]

14 hours ago, WazWii said:

I know this is slightly off-topic but recently I have had trouble with oncoming cars where it seems their headlights are adjusting?

They seem to be angled at a really bad point but as you get closer they adjust. But it is terrible. I have had to on three occassions apply the brakes because the glare is just immense. 

These are LED's too and I can tell because they are really white and crystal clear but when that hits your eyes it is not nice. 

Not just you for sure - I've been complaining about this sort of thing for years; We're all just victims of the brightness war.

When everyone was on Halogens their eyes could adjust, but with the advent of super-bright HIDs and Xenons destroying people's night vision, people felt their headlights weren't bright enough, so more and more people got brighter and brighter lights and now we have super bright LEDs and even lasers, and people *still* want brighter lights!

I feel wearing sunglasses at night a'la the Blues Brothers might not be so silly at the rate things are progressing...

I had to click my Mk4's lights down 2 notches because people kept flashing me, and having been beamed in the face by them several times (Seriously, is there a way to turn off the 'Welcome' lights? I always forget and unlock the car as I'm walking to it to e.g. get something from the car, and get blasted in the eyes with the both headlamps! ), I think they are far too bright to be considered safe or considerate for other drivers, and that's when dipped!!

I swear there are light bars on sale which don't output as much light, and those are illegal for road use!!

I kinda want to get a retro-reflective sticker strip for the top of the windscreen that just says CHECK YOUR **** LIGHT LEVEL or something along those lines to try and alert people who are clearly oblivious they're blinding everyone!

 

[Mojo1010]

@AisinW had 4 Mots with the last car with 4 different MOT tester. 100w hid 5000k output in the region of 8000LM+. When driving at night on single carriageway in the suburbs, car behind would just happily follow even when my MK3 couldn't go fast due to bad at cornering; my car would illuminate the road ahead amazingly. 

With HID or LED driving in urban area have to put the level down about 1-1.5. In the past when i had a car with 4 halogen bulbs on reflector it was fine for night driving in the sticks. The advent of HID were great as could get whiter temp and drawing less current. 

It's funny how HID needs headlight washers where as LED don't? The rules somewhat don't make sense. 

[Cyker]

I guess it's because HID and xenon are 'normal' incandescent lamps, while LEDs aren't.

LEDs generate far less heat, but I suspect with HID and xenon, if you got e.g. bird poop on the lamps there's a good chance they'd heat up a lot and possibly melt, so keeping them clean and clear is more important?

[WazWii]

6 hours ago, Bper said:

...and whilst anti glare glasses are available it's no fun especially on country roads with many drivers not dipping their headlights and driving on full beam. 

 

I have some of those (yellow tinted). I find they ever-so slightly reduce my vision and then there is the comfort factor. So I tend not to use them but I think I am going to have to start re-considering this in light of the new lighting technology on the road now (self-levelling LED).

2 hours ago, AisinW said:

It is true that our eyes is more sensitive to shorter wave length (blue) than yellow but also our brain works better with white lights.  Ironically, those original factory very bright headlights that often blind us in bumpy roads (the leveling sensors is too slow to adjust) are legal, but annoy me too.  That's why I click down when I install LED bulbs on my Auris.  I never get flashed or honged by anyone on the roads that way.  If I keep it at 0 level, sometimes  I got flashed by incoming driver on bumpy roads. 

I have mine set at 0 levelling. That is what it states with one driver in the user manual. 

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

Not just you for sure - I've been complaining about this sort of thing for years; We're all just victims of the brightness war.

I had to click my Mk4's lights down 2 notches because people kept flashing me...

What bulbs are fitted in the MK4 Yaris? Are they standard?

[Cyker]

My one doesn't have bulbs as such; They're LED so the whole headlamp is a single non-serviceable unit. Good if it lasts but will be very expensive to replace if it goes wrong as you can't just replace a bulb, you have to replace the whole headlamp!  

 

[WazWii]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

My one doesn't have bulbs as such; They're LED so the whole headlamp is a single non-serviceable unit. Good if it lasts but will be very expensive to replace if it goes wrong as you can't just replace a bulb, you have to replace the whole headlamp!  

 

Wow something to keep in mind. I have seen LED's flicker with faults so hope everything lasts. Sometimes the drive units are cheap. Not trying to get you worried, lol I am sure the TOYOTA LED is of far higher quality than the cheaper household stuff 👍.

Personally I don't like the glow of LED's. Those street lamps we had before I found were better too. Those bright orange ones. The new LED ones have a weird glow and they don't seem to illuminate a large enough diameter. Plus the colour leaves you feeling cold (white) as opposed to the more amber colour we once had. 

[AisinW]

1 hour ago, Mojo1010 said:

@AisinW had 4 Mots with the last car with 4 different MOT tester. 100w hid 5000k output in the region of 8000LM+. When driving at night on single carriageway in the suburbs, car behind would just happily follow even when my MK3 couldn't go fast due to bad at cornering; my car would illuminate the road ahead amazingly. 

With HID or LED driving in urban area have to put the level down about 1-1.5. In the past when i had a car with 4 halogen bulbs on reflector it was fine for night driving in the sticks. The advent of HID were great as could get whiter temp and drawing less current. 

It's funny how HID needs headlight washers where as LED don't? The rules somewhat don't make sense. 

The value of lumens is often overrated in aftermarket HIDs or LEDs.  That's why we only consider the Lux meter at certain distances. HID is similar to fluoresence lights and in many respects similar to LED colors (white).  Halogen is similar to Edison bulb and always yellow from how Tungsten metal glow. 

LED required washer too when it is brighter than 2000 lumens such as in Camry, RAV4, or Lexus.  

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, WazWii said:

Wow something to keep in mind. I have seen LED's flicker with faults so hope everything lasts. Sometimes the drive units are cheap. Not trying to get you worried, lol I am sure the TOYOTA LED is of far higher quality than the cheaper household stuff 👍.

Personally I don't like the glow of LED's. Those street lamps we had before I found were better too. Those bright orange ones. The new LED ones have a weird glow and they don't seem to illuminate a large enough diameter. Plus the colour leaves you feeling cold (white) as opposed to the more amber colour we once had. 

Yeah I felt that too - The LEDs they installed in our street were naked and had a very sharp cutoff, more like spot lights, but were dazzling drivers. The council fitted some diffusers to them which helped spread the light more, but they are still very bright point light sources which don't really illuminate around them as much. One of them is right outside my neighbour's bedroom window and they had to move into a back room because it was making it hard for them to sleep.

I also know a few astronomer types who grumble about them - They could filter out the old sodium lights, but the white LEDs are much harder to, which apparently makes it a lot harder to find faint stars.

I do find the new street lamps' light much harsher than the old lights, but since I drive a car with LEDs now and Toyota made every instrument backlight in the car blue (Which is the most eye-fatiguing colour you can use at night) it's just another drop in the ocean of night eye damage  

 

[AisinW]

LED is emitted by P-N diode and radiation is directional. Therefore, a diffuser is needed. However, all difuser reduce the effective brightness. Only in the past decade, we have high yields high intensity LED on small enough chips and can be used in headlights. 

What annoys me is the bluish colors in many German car headlights. Sometimes it makes me think if a police/emergency vehicle behind me. Additionally, Corolla and Yaris LED are not that bright and doesn't need sprayer. The older xenon lights are brighter but not as good as Matrix LED coverage. 

We save a lot of electricity with LED  vs old xenon on the street. It is quiet also because no need for high voltage balast. 

The astronomers is supposed to be in remote area where complete darkness exists. Not sure why this job still exists if we already have Hubble and James Webb Telescopes that cover IR and visible lights. 

 

[koji]

Yesterday I changed the original HIR2 bulbs for the 'Optiwhites' (Toyota ref. 90981-YZZDN, 55W, 12V, picture is shown at the beginning of this thread).

It's the only option the Toyota dealer gave me, as they don't sell any LED option (not approved in Europe I think).

Quite expensive (£44 each bulb).

I'm dissapointed. Although they are a little bit brighter, and whiter, it's not worth the change (and money!). That's regarding dim lights.

For the full beam, I'd say better performance, but don't expect a BIG improvement.

As I'm a photography nerd, I took pictures AFTER and BEFORE the 'improvement'. The first picture is after installing the Optiwhites, the second shows the original standard ones.

Details for the photo fans: the camera stood on a tripod just beside the driver door, 1.5 m high, exposure 4 seconds, f8, ISO 200, white balance 3700 K (this is the Optiwhite says it should be), focal length 50 mm (in 35 mm film equivalent). There are a 20-minute difference between the 2 pictures, so same conditions for both of them.

[koji]

Under further scrutiny, I see the real lgiht values of one spot in the pictures.

Optiwhite bulb: mean value 203 (R/G/B: 214/203/191)

Standard bulb: mean value 196 (R/G/B: 220/201/167)

Not much improvement!

Note the higher value in BLUE tint, though.

 

 

[koji]

To be more precise, according to a known photo-processing software, the mean luminosity of the whole images are:

Optiwhite bulb: 55

Standard bulb: 51

So, the Optiwhite bulbs are 8% brighter than the standard ones.

 

As I said, both pictures were taken in identical conditions: clear night, no other cars surrounding, no fog, just a 20-minute difference between the two takes.

 

[AisinW]

You can use Lux Meter app with your phone. Measure it at the same distance and do distribution measurement that cover about 1m×1m width. So, the value will be more accurate. Not just 1 spot.

Optiwhite= Philips Xtreemvision 1875 Lumen, the same as €8 Hella from Amazon or Osram standard. Not bright enough for projector bulb. 

Either replace it with good LED or change car for brighter Auris headlight.

[Wooster]

On 10/26/2023 at 6:35 PM, AisinW said:

V45 Bevinsee or GTR Ultra 2 HIR2

Where can you buy these? 

[AisinW]

16 hours ago, Wooster said:

Where can you buy these?

eBay in Europe. Amazon do not sell them anymore.