Winter tyres - TPMS Light is on!

[Kingsway]

I've just put my new steel rims, and winter tyres onto my 2914 Yaris Icon Hybrid - and now I have a flashing light warning me about tyre pressures!

Until today, I must admit I didn't even know the car had a TPMS - and I'd happlily do without it, having done so successfully for over 40 years!

To have sensors fitted to my new wheels would cost money I'd much rather not spend, so I'm wondering how I can stop the warning light...  I have read that some Toyotas actually use the ABS sensors to notice a wheel that is at a different speed to the others - rather than have TPMS sensors inside the tyres, so I'm wondering if that could be the case with my car?   (After fitting the wheel I drove to a local garage to top up the tyres, and one was very low)

Does anyone know what system I have, and how it can be reset, pleas, please, please??

(I'm a driving instructor, and tomorrow I have a customer going for his test - if the examiner sees the warning light and decides the car is not road-worthy the test won't go ahead!!!  = expensive disaster for me!!)

 

TIA

[FROSTYBALLS]

Tyre pressure warning systems became a compulsory fitment for all new cars first registered from November 2014. Manufacturers often fitted these systems to cars manufactured before this date. According to the full owners manual, your car has the tyre pressure warning valves and transmitters, rather than using the ABS sensors.

As far as I'm aware there is no way to disable the system.

The system can be reset (reset button I believe is by the fuse box to the right of the steering wheel), but presumably not without the corect valves being fitted.

Could you not refit the original wheels and tyres and then reset the system, and then explore what you're going to do about the winter wheels/tyres

[CPN]

The TPMS system, as Mike rightly points out, cannot be disabled. It works by monitoring the paired bluetooth transmitters that are integrated into each tyre valve unit of each wheel. The system is capable of monitoring two sets of these transmitters (for a winter set and a summer set) but obviously this pre-supposes that a second set of wheels/tyres are also fitted with a set of the correct valve units and they would need to be properly paired using the Techstream software at a dealer. That is the only way of getting rid of the warning light.

[Kingsway]

Oh boy - It gives a whole new meaning to the expression 'Idiot light'  . The cold dead hand of the EU once again!   How did we manage for hundreds of years without paper shufflers in Brussels to tell us when to blink and how to F*RT!?

I eventually found the reset button. Right underneath the dash and just a few inches above the accelerator pedal.  I think I'm right in saying that once you do a  reset, the light will stay off for about an hour while the system recalibrates.  This would be long enough to get through the driving test tomorrow, (maybe an MOT too!) but just to be on the safe side, I've put all four alloy rims and summer tyres in the boot!!  The things you have to do...

When I get some time, I'll research a more permanent solution. p'raps see if a code is reported when the light is on. It'd be terrible if the wee light should burn out... Imagine having a sudden deflation of a tyre and not have a little light to tell you afterwards what went wrong!

I bought the Yaris because I was hoping to make a big saving on fuel costs - I do hope I won't live to regret giving up my nice, cheap,  simple little Daihatsu. The fact I have to be tied to the local Toyota dealer in order to keep up the warranty is itself a  worry. My very first interaction with them has already put me right off...  Sadly, their isn't another Toyota dealer within 30 miles who isn't part of the same group...

 

(BTW It seems it  is possible to buy much cheaper generic sensors, which can be cloned so they appear to be the same as the original set of tyres - without having to pay an arm and a leg to the  main stealer -  but I do begrudge wasting money on such nonsense!)

[FROSTYBALLS]

Whatever car you bought of a similar age, will have to meet the same requirements, whether it is a Toyota or something else. 

[Kingsway]

Sure.  I'm just wondering if I should have kept my nice simple old cars going a year or two longer... (until I can retire)  I could do it yet...  I can buy a replacement car for £2000, with reasonably low  mileage.   The biggest expense I might face, if an engine blows up, or transmission falls to bits, is a couple of hundred to a scrap yard!

No risk at all of possibly needing  a £2000 replacement traction Battery!

I do (mostly) like the Yaris and enjoy driving it. It also has certain advantages for my clients.  But is it really worth the cost???  I'm not sure...

 

[alan333]

8 hours ago, Kingsway said:

The fact I have to be tied to the local Toyota dealer in order to keep up the warranty is itself a  worry.

You're not tied to Toyota for servicing.  Under block exemption rules you can have your car serviced at any vat registered garage without losing your warranty.  The servicing needs to be done to the correct spec and at the relevant intervals etc, and the onus is on you to prove it was done correctly...so keep detailed receipts.

[Mike J.]

13 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Tyre pressure warning systems became a compulsory fitment for all new cars first registered from November 2014. 

Wow, I dodged the bullet on this one with my 2013 Yaris. A shame that indirect sensing not used (monitor rotation of wheel rather than actual pressures).

[CPN]

From the bumpf I've read, indirect sensing was not seen as "good enough" by the Euro NCAP wizards. To be fair, the direct TPMS system is capable of detecting a slow puncture over time as long as it's calibration is kept updated. Personally, I have found that the system on the Toyota is puzzling slow to respond to even a "fake" pressure drop...

[PeteB]

3 hours ago, alan333 said:

You're not tied to Toyota for servicing.  Under block exemption rules you can have your car serviced at any vat registered garage without losing your warranty.  The servicing needs to be done to the correct spec and at the relevant intervals etc, and the onus is on you to prove it was done correctly...so keep detailed receipts.

In fact, some early Prius owners 15+ years ago who liked to do their own servicing got a letter from Toyota confirming that as long as they used parts up to specification and did everything on the time/mileage specified in the servicing requirements, they would have no problems with the warranty.  They just needed to keep receipts for parts and a log of what they did, when at at what mileage.

[Kingsway]

Toyota want £104 per sensor - plus fitting.  The Battery only lasts 3 to 4 years, so you are looking at £104 per year just for tyre pressure sensors. If you have a second set of tyres, then its £208  per year down the tubes!!  If I want to keep be sure of keeping all the guarantees going, I'd need two services  a year  £300+ ?  So now we're paying out £500 per annum before putting any fuel into the thing.  Hmnnn... A Yaris Hybrid isn't looking quite so cheap to run after all!

I thought by fitting winter tyres I was doing something good and. sensible.  But it looks like I could save myself a lot of money and trouble  by just forgetting the whole idea!

(or - for less than the cost of one set of TPMS sensors, I could buy a new set of all-season tyres?)

 

[PeteB]

15 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Tyre pressure warning systems became a compulsory fitment for all new cars first registered from November 2014. Manufacturers often fitted these systems to cars manufactured before this date.

The Gen 3 Prius manual showed that for some markets a Tyre Pressure Management System (rather than Warning) was fitted, and it showed on the centre MFD a map of the car where individual tyre pressures were shown, and also temperatures could be selected.  I was quite disappointed the Gen 4 didn't come with this.

I bought my winter tyres from my dealer (for my last Gen 3 Prius) and did a deal where they store the tyres not being used (free) and each spring & autumn swap they tyres to the same wheels (£10 per wheel, including vat and new valve).  I figured 3 or 4 extra removals and re-fittings in the life of each tyre wouldn't do any more harm than having a few punctures repaired, and my dealer agreed.

My old 2012 Prius didn't have TPWS so the issue didn't arise, but I'm mighty glad I was able to specify 15" wheels for my current Gen 4 (same size as my Gen 3) so I'm using the same winter tyres that I bought for the last car, and no issues with the warning light.

I don't suppose by any chance the rims of your winter and summer wheels at the same size, and you could use the same wheels for both?

[Kingsway]

6 minutes ago, PeteB said:

In fact, some early Prius owners 15+ years ago who liked to do their own servicing got a letter from Toyota confirming that as long as they used parts up to specification and did everything on the time/mileage specified in the servicing requirements, they would have no problems with the warranty.  They just needed to keep receipts for parts and a log of what they did, when at at what mileage.

many thanks for this  PeteB - I would much rather do my own servicing. I've never yet found anyone who has quite the same motivation to go a good job as I do when its my own car!!

I wonder if I might have to pay £39 for a Hybrid Check though - to keep the traction Battery guarantee going?   Then again, I've seen  packs go second hand for £350, and I could quite easily  balance and or replace cells in the pack if necessary.

[Kingsway]

3 minutes ago, PeteB said:

The Gen 3 Prius manual showed that for some markets a Tyre Pressure Management System (rather than Warning) was fitted, and it showed on the centre MFD a map of the car where individual tyre pressures were shown, and also temperatures could be selected.  I was quite disappointed the Gen 4 didn't come with this.

I bought my winter tyres from my dealer (for my last Gen 3 Prius) and did a deal where they store the tyres not being used (free) and each spring & autumn swap they tyres to the same wheels (£10 per wheel, including vat and new valve).  I figured 3 or 4 extra removals and re-fittings in the life of each tyre wouldn't do any more harm than having a few punctures repaired, and my dealer agreed.

My old 2012 Prius didn't have TPWS so the issue didn't arise, but I'm mighty glad I was able to specify 15" wheels for my current Gen 4 (same size as my Gen 3) so I'm using the same winter tyres that I bought for the last car, and no issues with the warning light.

I don't suppose by any chance the rims of your winter and summer wheels at the same size, and you could use the same wheels for both?

I think I'd be inclined to use all-seasons tyres - not quite as good as snow tyres, but probably good enough for the UK. Then I'd just need the one set. One less problem to think about!

[PeteB]

6 minutes ago, Kingsway said:

...I thought by fitting winter tyres I was doing something good and. sensible...

No argument there

...But it looks like I could save myself a lot of money and trouble  by just forgetting the whole idea!

(or - for less than the cost of one set of TPMS sensors, I could buy a new set of all-season tyres?)

 

unless someone stuffs the car on a slippery surface!

Last option is better than leaving summer tyres on - you never know, the various dire weather warnings for this winter being made by the forecasters might actually happen for once!

[FROSTYBALLS]

3 hours ago, Mike J. said:

Wow, I dodged the bullet on this one with my 2013 Yaris. A shame that indirect sensing not used (monitor rotation of wheel rather than actual pressures).

 

1 hour ago, CPN said:

From the bumpf I've read, indirect sensing was not seen as "good enough" by the Euro NCAP wizards. To be fair, the direct TPMS system is capable of detecting a slow puncture over time as long as it's calibration is kept updated. Personally, I have found that the system on the Toyota is puzzling slow to respond to even a "fake" pressure drop...

The Aygo uses an indirect system, so indirect systems must satisy EU requirements

[Heidfirst]

1 hour ago, Kingsway said:

 The battery only lasts 3 to 4 years

It should last longer than that & it is covered by warranty (5 years/100,000 miles - extendable up to 11 years, unlimited mileage if you play your cards right) if serviced according to schedule. If you get it serviced by a Toyota dealer you should get a free Hybrid Health Check along with that, if you get it serviced independently then as you say you can still get that for £39 on it's own.

https://www.toyota.co.uk/owners/warranty/toyota-warranty.json

[FROSTYBALLS]

The hybrid Battery warranty extension provided by the hybrid health check provides a 1 year/10,000 mile warranty once the vehicle is outside the new car warranty. So if from an earlier post you're doing around 20K per year, to keep the hybrid Battery under an extended warranty, two hybrid health check would need to be done per year.

As regards own servicing, pretty sure now that doesn't fit with Block Exemption and maintaining the new car warranty.

[Kingsway]

35 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

The hybrid battery warranty extension provided by the hybrid health check provides a 1 year/10,000 mile warranty once the vehicle is outside the new car warranty. So if from an earlier post you're doing around 20K per year, to keep the hybrid battery under an extended warranty, two hybrid health check would need to be done per year.

As regards own servicing, pretty sure now that doesn't fit with Block Exemption and maintaining the new car warranty.

You may well be right. Here's what Honest John says on the subject...   http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/caradvice/honestjohn/5286200/Honest-John-how-servicing-can-affect-a-warranty-and-misfiring-airbags.html

[FROSTYBALLS]

13 minutes ago, Kingsway said:

You may well be right. Here's what Honest John says on the subject...   http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/caradvice/honestjohn/5286200/Honest-John-how-servicing-can-affect-a-warranty-and-misfiring-airbags.html

According to Honest John's response, in the UK Block Exemption covers the first three years of the new car warranty. The Toyota GB five year/100,000 mile warranty includes Toyota's standard pan European new car warranty (3 years/60,000 miles), and a 2 year/40,000 mile extended warranty. So presumably one could argue that Toyota GB could legally insist that vehicles within the warranty extension period (ie after year 3) have to be serviced within the Toyota dealer network for the warranty to remain valid. 

[Kingsway]

10 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

It should last longer than that & it is covered by warranty (5 years/100,000 miles - extendable up to 11 years, unlimited mileage if you play your cards right) if serviced according to schedule. If you get it serviced by a Toyota dealer you should get a free Hybrid Health Check along with that, if you get it serviced independently then as you say you can still get that for £39 on it's own.

https://www.toyota.co.uk/owners/warranty/toyota-warranty.json

I was talking about the auxiliary 12v Battery.   They are only  guaranteed for 3 years despite selling for as much as £280!   (I believe Toyota willl sell one for £100 however)

[Kingsway]

8 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

According to Honest John's response, in the UK Block Exemption covers the first three years of the new car warranty. The Toyota GB five year/100,000 mile warranty includes Toyota's standard pan European new car warranty (3 years/60,000 miles), and a 2 year/40,000 mile extended warranty. So presumably one could argue that Toyota GB could legally insist that vehicles within the warranty extension period (ie after year 3) have to be serviced within the Toyota dealer network for the warranty to remain valid. 

yes. So I may have to bite the bullet and pay up for a couple of years. Then, once I retire and money is a bit tighter, do all my own servicing.

[Kingsway]

Re the TPMS. It looks like the cheapest solution when fitting sensors would be 4 x £45 for new generic sensors for the winter tyres,  which  can be  cloned so that the car would recognise them as being the same as my other set of tyres.   (The alternatve would be to pay a Toyota stealer to plug in and programme the system)

Some cars can learn to recognise new sensors, apparently - but not Toyota, sadly, where a dealer is required to programme the system. So its a question of cloning - which means taking the car halfway across the country to the sensor suppliers to have them remotely read the codes of the present tyres, Or remove the tyres to read the code numbers off the side of the present sensors if I am to avoid having to pay the stealer.

Given that I'd then have two sets of sensors having to be replaced every few years, I don't feel it is worth the trouble and expense so am strongly motivated to NOT to use a second set of winter tyres.. I've done without them up to now - but would have liked the added security!    As so often happens, a bit of well-meaning bureaucracy brings about the opposite effect to that intended!!

When I eventually have to change,  I'll probably buy some of the new-fangled all-seasons tyres  so that I only have one set of  (less than useful) sensors to maintain.

 

[Kingsway]

8 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

According to Honest John's response, in the UK Block Exemption covers the first three years of the new car warranty. The Toyota GB five year/100,000 mile warranty includes Toyota's standard pan European new car warranty (3 years/60,000 miles), and a 2 year/40,000 mile extended warranty. So presumably one could argue that Toyota GB could legally insist that vehicles within the warranty extension period (ie after year 3) have to be serviced within the Toyota dealer network for the warranty to remain valid. 

Yup - so we're back to the system where you are pretty much forced to use the dealer network. Which would explain why the service can be so rotten - they've got you by the short and curlies!!!

I have been foolish enough to forget why, for the last 20 years or so, I have always bought older cars which have missed the worst of depreciation, and are no longer under guarantee - so that I've not been held to ransom by 'the system'!  It has saved me many thousands over the years...

[FROSTYBALLS]

50 minutes ago, Kingsway said:

yes. So I may have to bite the bullet and pay up for a couple of years. Then, once I retire and money is a bit tighter, do all my own servicing.

Once the car is over five years old, one can take advantage of Toyota's Essential Care servicing scheme. In common with other manufacturers, once a car is outside the new car warranty, Toyota offer reduced pricing for servicing - see https://www.toyota.co.uk/owners/service-mot-maintenance/servicing.json

Currently the Silver service (equivalent to the Intermediate) for the Yaris costs £110 and the Gold (equivalent to the Full) costs £190.