Keyless Entry - Rise in car theft - Auris included?

[16_Auris_HSD]

11 hours ago, furtula said:

Luckily, Toyota cars are not luxurious enough for them to bother, so we can sleep sound.

Unluckily hybrid Toyota thefts are quite common.

[FROSTYBALLS]

This morning at around 11.15 a 66 plate Fiesta ST (a neighbours) was stolen from outside of our house. Parked on the street. Driver's window smashed, youths got inside and despite the alarm going off, they were away in less than two minutes.

Chatting to another neighbour who works as a mechanic at a Ford-owned main dealer, a common method of stealing any keyless entry car is to gain entry to the car, plug a device into the OBD socket, simulate a key which takes around 30 seconds, and they're off! 

According to my neighbour, who owns a couple of Audis, this method applies to several makes including VAG, Ford, Vauxhall, etc.

So it isn't just the transmissions from the keyless fob that leaves keyless cars vulnerable.

See the following for Thatcham Approved mechanical immobilisers (steering wheel locks, etc) - 

http://ww2.thatcham.org/standards/index.jsp?page=254&systemType=61&productType=387&posted=2

[Heidfirst]

you can also get locking covers for the OBD port. Of course by the time that they discover that you will still have a smashed window but better that than a lost car ...

[Cyker]

Yeah but Ford car security is a joke if my old Fiesta is anything to go by. Fun story: When I had a key made for my old Fiesta I didn't even give the guy my old key; He just plugged something into the ODB port (I'd already opened the door), and coded it into a blank and started the car - He hadn't even cut the key yet!

It didn't unlock the door at least, but I was like "Is that normal?!" apparently on older Fords that take that kind of rounded hex-key, the ignition barrels get so worn you can stick any old key in and it'll turn (He pointed out it probably didn't help that I had half a ton of crap hanging off my keyring... ;>_>)

I still remember that episode of Top Gear where the thief has to break into their vans and with the Transit he jammed a screwdriver into the lock, whacked it a few times with a hammer and BAM he was in!

[iangame]

Interesting discussion. I am surprised that the Auris hybrid keyless model can be stolen using these methods. When I bought mine (a 60 plate 4 years back) it only had 1 key. The dealer price for a complete spare was well over £200. Experimenting with OBD leads and software with second-hand keys showed that it was not possible to get a spare key this way, you **MUST** have a brand new key. I looked around for new keys but at a better price and found a dealer in Poland who could sell me one for around £100, brand new as well. Tried and failed to program this key so I was stuck with a duff useless key. However, I discovered a service on eBay that for a reasonable sum could 'reset' a used key to be suitable for programming. I found a lot of useful programming info in a US RAV4 forum as it looks like that vehicle uses the same system. Long story short I got the second key programmed.

The point I am getting to is that I understood that the EMS needs the key to be physically within the car cabin for it to start, the proximity detection system in other words. Another thing I found is that if you wish to reset the key programming part of the EMS then there is a forced 15 minute (I think from memory) delay. This is presumably to deter thieves who would have to hang around waiting for the delay to complete.

So how do thieves manage to get around this?  Genuinely interested as my experience shows that the key programming on my model is quite complex.

 

[eygo]

they have receivers that can pick up very very low strength signals

that your remote emits it is then boosted and transmitted ,this signal

is detected by the car and authorised access is given to enter and start the car.

simple really.

 

[pandes]

subscribed, this seems like a very interesting thread

[olddriver]

Many years ago you could put a switch in the ignition wiring and hide it somewhere in the car, a friend put his in the boot!

 

Consequently, I wonder if an electronics expert knows if this can be done with a modern car.  The GT86 has a stater motor switch that you have to depress to start the car, so I wonder if another switch could be put in series?

[Mooly]

While you could add another switch (it would be wired across or in parallel to the existing one) it would only start the car normally if any other conditions required were met such as the engine management having obtained 'authorisation' from the card.

In other words the additional switch would operate in an identical manner to the existing one given the same conditions.

Also the above implies that the original switch is a simple mechanical type with contacts... and it actually doesn't have to be. There are optical, magnetic and piezo type switches as well.  

[hubrad]

The switch mentioned by olddriver goes in series and breaks whichever circuit you put it into. A manual mechanically operated immobiliser.

[olddriver]

3 hours ago, hubrad said:

The switch mentioned by olddriver goes in series and breaks whichever circuit you put it into. A manual mechanically operated immobiliser.

That's correct.

[Mooly]

In that case a series mechanical switch would perform the same function as the original fitment, again as long as any other necessary conditions were met.  

[olddriver]

52 minutes ago, Mooly said:

In that case a series mechanical switch would perform the same function as the original fitment, again as long as any other necessary conditions were met.  

No, a series switch will break or make the circuit.  When it is in the "off" position the circuit wil be open and not operate, eg the starter motor in my above example of the GT 86, will not operate. When it is in the "on" position, pressing the stater motor switch will operate the starter motor.

 

 

[Mooly]

Best if you draw the circuit 🙂

hubrad mentioned that the switch:  

On ‎8‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 8:50 AM, hubrad said:

The switch mentioned by olddriver goes in series and breaks whichever circuit you put it into.

 which implied (this is why clarity is important) it is a normally closed contact and that operating the switch would  have opened the contacts. I took it that hubrads reply was partly in response to my earlier post and was saying I was wrong in assuming a normally open contact.

If it is normally open and pressing the switch closes the contacts then my original first post suggesting paralleling a second switch across the original one is correct.  

[hubrad]

Haha, this seems like a sign of age! Before immobiliser fitment at factory became compulsory about 20 years ago, I knew so many people who did this mod on their own vehicle; indeed, I worked in an auto-electrical garage where all the company vehicles had a switch even though we had fully certified Thatcham fitters.

Cut a wire, install hidden or disguised switch. When closed, all is normal. When open, that circuit doesn't work. Mostly saw it done on starter motor or fuel pump. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by hubrad
More words

[eygo]

the other favourite was to have a switch between the coil negative and earth ,

once earthed you wouldn't get a spark.

[olddriver]

7 hours ago, hubrad said:

Cut a wire, install hidden or disguised switch. When closed, all is normal. When open, that circuit doesn't work. Mostly saw it done on starter motor or fuel pump. 

Ah that is what my friend had that I spoke about above, we would get in his car, he would drive about 100 yds and the car would come to a halt, he would get out and rush to the boot to flick his switch, presumably in the fuel pump circuit.