Stick to good quality fuel...

[estate]

Copied for Honest John in the Telegraph. 

Cheap in wolf’s clothing

I took my two-year-old Auris to a Toyota dealer for a number of reasons - one being that mpg had dropped from mid-50s to mid-40s. When I told them that I’d bought fuel from two major supermarkets they added Redex additive. It is now up to 52 and climbing. Is this the norm? IM

The Redex cleaned the deposits that cheap fuel left in the system. It’s best to use branded superunleaded petrol - that way, you won’t suffer the problems that the Redex cured.

[mrpj]

" It’s best to use branded superunleaded petrol "

No it isn't, not for an engine that is designed to run perfectly well on "normal" unleaded.

[fordulike]

Agree with you Peter. Run the car on whatever fuel is recommended in your Toyota handbook, which will most likely be regular unleaded.

Manufacturers tweak their engines to run fine on fuel from the crappiest to the best. That way they can introduce cars into markets all over the world, where fuel quality can vary dramatically.

Wouldn't hurt to use a bottle of fuel system cleaner once in a while though!

[mickburkesnr]

I think the suggestion to use branded superunleaded fuel is to do with the detergents and additives added to that type of fuel when compared to the bog standard stuff from Asda or Sainsburys. Manufacturers tune the cars to use the octane rating of the poorest petrol but I don't think they're designed to cope with the lack of additives or detergents in the cheap supermarket fuel.

Personally my tank is filled up once a week, and every 4th tank gets a tank of Shell VPower Super Unleaded fuel to clear out the fuel system. That way I don't have to use Redex.

[FROSTYBALLS]

The owners manual for both our cars state to use "95 RON or higher". So if one chooses to use super unleaded in preference to standard unleaded, that is perfectly in accordance with the vehicle manufacturer's requirements. 

It is the additive package which differentiates between fuels. I usually use branded fuel (BP or Shell), but if I fill up with supermarket fuel (Tesco), their Momentum super unleaded is used which has their best additive package.

Over on the IQ forum some owners use either Redex or super unleaded as some of the earlier IQ's appeared to have issues with the EGR valve.

As always it is down to personal choice.

[furtula]

Always use best most expensive fuel, but they forgot to add to the bottom the article was paid.

Jokes aside, there were  tests done in the past, i remember one even done by fifth gear where they tested the fancy fuels vs regular and supermarket ones. No significant difference.  I personally bought the cheapest gasoline that i could find in my whole county, drove mostly on it for 2 weeks, and mpg was same.

[FROSTYBALLS]

I don't buy super unleaded for any perceived economy gain - I buy it for the better cleaning properties.

[mickburkesnr]

1 hour ago, furtula said:

Always use best most expensive fuel, but they forgot to add to the bottom the article was paid.

Jokes aside, there were  tests done in the past, i remember one even done by fifth gear where they tested the fancy fuels vs regular and supermarket ones. No significant difference.  I personally bought the cheapest gasoline that i could find in my whole county, drove mostly on it for 2 weeks, and mpg was same.

The test Fifth-Gear did was to see if the high performance petrol gave the car a boost in power. On economy cars it didn't, but on higher end performance cars there was a difference.

I think in the articles case though it's referring to the additives and detergents offered by higher end fuel.

[RUToyota]

5 hours ago, mrpj said:

" It’s best to use branded superunleaded petrol "

No it isn't, not for an engine that is designed to run perfectly well on "normal" unleaded.

Correct...unless you are happy to waste money.

[Cyker]

Supposedly there should be some benefit as newer VVTi's have knock sensors and can alter both ignition and valve timing?

But TBH, if you're getting deposits in the engine on supermarket fuel, you're probably babying the car too much.

I was very gentle with my D4D when I first had it but noticed after a month it was starting to feel a little weaker. Following advice here, I loaded it up with V-Power diesel and went for a hoon - Everything was good after that!

Nowadays, I know what the car and engine can do so I'm not afraid to give it the beans to make progress, and this has even given me better economy and kept the engine clean because I get it nice and hot so the deposits burn off on their own!


For petrols, I think super unleaded is only useful on high-compression cars, but for you Frosty it might be worth trying stuff like the FuelSave petrol - It's supposed to be normal 95RON but with more cleaning agents; Cheaper than super but with the enhanced cleaning properties perhaps...?

[FROSTYBALLS]

We usually use BP or Shell unleaded. Currently BP and Shell (Fuelsave) unleaded in my area is around 119.9 per litre and Tesco Momentum  super unleaded around 121.9.

We top the cars up when they're around three quarters to half empty. In the Aygo our usual fill is between 20 and 25 litres, so if we use Tesco Momentum (for example filling up after shopping) it costs us 40 to 50 pence more per fill. So not likely to break the bank.

[Countrylad]

14 hours ago, Cyker said:

Supposedly there should be some benefit as newer VVTi's have knock sensors and can alter both ignition and valve timing?
....

For petrols, I think super unleaded is only useful on high-compression cars, but for you Frosty it might be worth trying stuff like the FuelSave petrol - It's supposed to be normal 95RON but with more cleaning agents; Cheaper than super but with the enhanced cleaning properties perhaps...?
 

Yes, it depends on the car. I had an old Citroen Xantia 1.8i that was both faster and more economical on French super grades of petrol. (It costs a few buttons extra in France, so was worth doing.) But I haven't noticed any difference on my 64 reg 1.6 petrol Auris.

Oddly, I've heard it said that cars with the capability of adjusting their valve timing etc to suit the grade of fuel are actually less likely to benefit from higher octane fuel because they just 'adjust away' the difference! I wouldn't know whether that's true, but I can tell you what improves the fuel economy on my Auris, sometimes by up to 5 mpg.

200 miles flat out on the motorway. Blows out the cobwebs a treat.  And the benefit lasts for weeks, or even months.

[NeilMH]

Whether or not you derive any immediate benefit in economy or performance seems to be subject to debate (and the set-up of the car) but the reason I have tended to use Shell V Nitro + even in my old Corollas is for the additional additives and detergents. 

[Cyker]

@Countrylad - Haha! Yes! All hail the italian tuneup!

[mrpj]

" Whether or not you derive any immediate benefit in economy or performance seems to be subject to debate (and the set-up of the car) but the reason I have tended to use Shell V Nitro + even in my old Corollas is for the additional additives and detergents. "

Or, like many others who have fallen for the marketing hype! What additional additives and detergents are these? Surely not those that the oil companies allege to have conjured up?

[alan333]

Obviously times have moved on in recent years, but I remember back in the 70's that Toyotas were one of the few cars that could be ran on 2 star petrol.

[NeilMH]

2 hours ago, mrpj said:

" Whether or not you derive any immediate benefit in economy or performance seems to be subject to debate (and the set-up of the car) but the reason I have tended to use Shell V Nitro + even in my old Corollas is for the additional additives and detergents. "

Or, like many others who have fallen for the marketing hype! What additional additives and detergents are these? Surely not those that the oil companies allege to have conjured up?

Those are the ones - yep 

[Heidfirst]

from HonestJohn's Agony Column today re. this question:

"I seem to have to keep repeating this. Super petrol or diesel has higher RON or higher cetane that provides more torque at low rpm allowing the driver or the automatic transmission to change up earlier and thus save a bit of fuel. As well as that, it contains lubricity enhancers and detergents that keep the fuel system cleaner, so valves and injectors don't coke up or gunge up so quickly and it also helps to keep EGRs and DPFs clear. So tell your mate how clever it is to save a few pence on a litre of fuel, then have to fork out £1,000 for a new set of injectors, or £500 to get his engine Terracleaned, or £1,000 for a new EGR or £1,000 for a new DPF. "

[NeilMH]

1 hour ago, Heidfirst said:

from HonestJohn's Agony Column today re. this question:

"I seem to have to keep repeating this. Super petrol or diesel has higher RON or higher cetane that provides more torque at low rpm allowing the driver or the automatic transmission to change up earlier and thus save a bit of fuel. As well as that, it contains lubricity enhancers and detergents that keep the fuel system cleaner, so valves and injectors don't coke up or gunge up so quickly and it also helps to keep EGRs and DPFs clear. So tell your mate how clever it is to save a few pence on a litre of fuel, then have to fork out £1,000 for a new set of injectors, or £500 to get his engine Terracleaned, or £1,000 for a new EGR or £1,000 for a new DPF. "

Thanks for that. The above was my understanding as well from past research carried out particularly when I was a Caterham 7 owner (there are a lot of  expert technical people in that club). It seems, however, that not everyone can be convinced, so I don't try (life being too short and all that).

[Cyker]

It really depends on the car - In my 1.4 D4D there is a noticeable difference between V-Power diesel and regular - The engine runs audibly smoother and quieter, and this gives more confidence to push it to higher RPMs. However, there is also a noticeable loss of torque at the low-end. I find I have to hold on for another 500rpm longer than I would with regular diesel.
In my dad's 2.0 D4D Verso OTOH, I can feel absolutely no difference between V-Power and normal!

I suspect petrol is similar; Anecdotally, the people here with smaller petrol engines have not really noticed any benefit from higher octanes, but OTOH I had a friend with a riced up Impreza which pretty much needed super to work properly or it'd run very rough and have poor power!

[NeilMH]

It does depend on the set-up of the car. A while ago I had a 350Z with the earlier DE V6 engine. That had to be run on super unleaded and there are many documented cases of those engines being damaged by running on lower octane fuel. It was, however, possible to re-map the car to work ok with normal unleaded - however I have to say that 99% of owners had theirs re-mapped for more power! If you had cruise control you could use the different settings to contain up to 5 different pre-set maps. I suspect that most Toyotas will probably run on almost anything. Some may well "adjust out" the higher octane but that doesn't negate the value of the friction reducers etc in V Plus (assuming you believe, like I do, that they exist and are in there).

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

Anecdotally, the people here with smaller petrol engines have not really noticed any benefit from higher octanes, .....

Not quite the case. Previously on the IQ club, some owners who used super unleaded felt their cars ran better, etc, and as I said earlier, some use super unleaded or Redex to reduce any adverse effects on the EGR, which, prior to a recall on the exhaust manifold, could cause issues.

[mac_auris63]

I mainly use Shell v power with the occasional tank or two of regular fuel save. I am not totally against supermarket fuel but what I am definitely against is unbranded petrol stations. 

[Cyker]

@Frosty - Oh, interesting.. I assume that's on the newer 1.33 engine? I'll have to experiment when I swap my Yaris as I'm after a 2009 one with a 1.33 (Gotta love that £30 tax vs the £135 of the 1.3!)

[FROSTYBALLS]

8 minutes ago, Cyker said:

@Frosty - Oh, interesting.. I assume that's on the newer 1.33 engine? I'll have to experiment when I swap my Yaris as I'm after a 2009 one with a 1.33 (Gotta love that £30 tax vs the £135 of the 1.3!)

Think mainly in the 1.0 litre which could exhibit issues with what was thought to be the EGR valve