Swapping Wheels Front/Rear and TPMS

[YarisHybrid2016]

Hi,

Going to get a set of new tires next week. I have been carefully monitoring the state of them the last month or two as they run towards the legal limit.

The rears are good for several thousand miles, but the fronts are heading towards 2 mm, and so with winter now upon us I want to replace them.

From previous discussions, the new tires want to go on the rear of the vehicle, but it is unclear if it is OK to simply swap the rear wheels to the front, replace the front tires, and fit them to the rear, without the TPMS going nuts.

Is the TPMS sensitive to wheel position, or doesn't it care as long as the sensors are present?

[Anthony Poli]

If the tpms warns you which tyre is low then, you might need to get it reconfigured. Can’t imagine these modern ones just saying one or more tyre is low.


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[FROSTYBALLS]

30 minutes ago, Anthony Poli said:

If the tpms warns you which tyre is low then, you might need to get it reconfigured. Can’t imagine these modern ones just saying one or more tyre is low.

Think most systems do only indicate a tyre is low in pressure, and one has to physically check which tyre is low. This meets legal requirements.

[YarisHybrid2016]

I confirm the Yaris only warns if *A* tyre is low, not which tyre.

So the TPMS doesn't care for position?

[Anthony Poli]

So glad I have an after market one, it’s one of those fobo bluetooth systems and warns you via the little box, as well as on the phone. Actually displays the pressures on the phone.


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[YarisHybrid2016]

IMHO Toyota could have made a little more use of the MFD for displaying details about the car!

Car Info -> Geek Mode 

[Anthony Poli]

Yes, that would have been great. I would have liked to a record of best results, for the longest distance traveled with no fuel. Next weekend I’ll get to use b mode again, going for meal out and the place is up a steep hill. So I’ll make sure I have hybrid assistant running for the ascent and decent.


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[Heidfirst]

7 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Think most systems do only indicate a tyre is low in pressure, and one has to physically check which tyre is low. This meets legal requirements.

The Camry that I recently hired in the USA displayed individual tyre pressures on a little schematic of a car as 1 page of the infotainment system - given that they obviously have the system within the company it would have been far nicer if cars like Avensis & RAV showed this (fair enough Aygos & Yaris may not due to cost).

[Anthony Poli]

Such an important part and they do half a job. There again my girlfriend is quite happy to buy a new tyre than keep her tyres in decent shape. Then moans about the tyres not lasting.


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[YarisHybrid2016]

The cost of a piece of software is a couple of hours - the data is already there - they just need to display it.

[FROSTYBALLS]

When faced with new legislation, the majority of  car manufacturers will adopt systems that enable them to comply at the least cost. This isn't just Toyota. Cars like the Aygo use indirect systems, which rely on the ABS sensors to compare rotational differences to monitor the tyre pressures. Cars like the i20 and Yaris use direct systems, which use a sensor in each wheel.

For EU market cars both systems commonly just identify that one of the tyres have an issue - that satisfies the legislation and adds the least cost to the vehicle, which at the end of the day would be born by the customer.

[Mike J.]

11 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

For EU market cars both systems commonly just identify that one of the tyres have an issue ...

Which people seem to ignore. If I am in a position to, I warn people of their nearly flat tyres and the majority say "Thanks, but I know".

[FROSTYBALLS]

11 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

For EU market cars both systems commonly just identify that one of the tyres have an issue 

2 minutes ago, Mike J. said:

Which people seem to ignore. If I am in a position to, I warn people of their nearly flat tyres and the majority say "Thanks, but I know".

....... and the chances are they would ignore the TPMS if it identified the specific tyre with low pressure.

[Mike J.]

Have Toyota been listening to us:

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/how-does-tpms-work

[FROSTYBALLS]

Posted earlier - 

 

[YarisHybrid2016]

Hi,

First, TPMS: It seems happy with the rear/front wheels swapped around, but the system must be reset after doing this.

I have two new tires fitted (last Friday) but they've fitted the wrong ones!!! I ordered the same as what is already on the vehicle (Premium Contact 2) and they've fitted Sport Contact 3.

Does anyone know if I would be able to get them changed, considering they are not what I ordered?? I don't even know how they managed that as I must have repeated myself a dozen times when ordering (some days I wonder if I speak English at all). I must admit to failing to checking the tyres in detail before driving off, beyond checking things looked OK with the new tyres/wheels in terms of fitting. I thought they looked different, but had no reason to suspect they had fitted something else.

Fuel economy is also noticeably down, though I don't know how much that is due to tracking (it doesn't feel to pull, but the steering has been off-center since the wheels were swapped).

According to the Continental website, the Sport tyres have a poor fuel economy rating (F) vs. the Premium (C).

I'm not happy to say the least.

[ICF]

Have you got proof of what you ordered?

[YarisHybrid2016]

No, unfortunately.

I've had the tracking done - it was quite a way out - and it is driving better simply because of that.

I'm probably being very pedantic, but it is "just how I am" to notice even small changes. "If something changed, it is because something is different".

[ICF]

If you don't have proof of what you ordered then you have a choice of go back to the garage and try and complain or just put it done to experience.

 

[YarisHybrid2016]

11 hours ago, ICF said:

If you don't have proof of what you ordered then you have a choice of go back to the garage and try and complain or just put it done to experience.

 

It'll need to be the latter. 

[YarisHybrid2016]

Bah - no-go on the tyre change (TL;DR they were not what I ordered and I drove off before spotting the wrong model were fitted).

So far, these tyres (Sport Contact 2) seem slightly quieter, but the hit to fuel economy is another story (they are rated F for fuel economy vs. C for the Premium Contact 2).

Noticeably reduced EV range, and marked increase in fuel consumption by anywhere up to 30%. Rare to see 99.9 on the display now; no heater usage. Noticeable increase in power requirements in a range of situations to hold speed (anywhere up to 1 tick mark higher, which can mean being unable to remain in EV mode at all).

Not happy.

Hybrids most certainly seem more sensitive to increased rolling resistance. This is with only 2 fitted; I'd hate to have four of them.

[Anthony Poli]

33 minutes ago, YarisHybrid2016 said:

Bah - no-go on the tyre change (TL;DR they were not what I ordered and I drove off before spotting the wrong model were fitted).

So far, these tyres (Sport Contact 2) seem slightly quieter, but the hit to fuel economy is another story (they are rated F for fuel economy vs. C for the Premium Contact 2).

Noticeably reduced EV range, and marked increase in fuel consumption by anywhere up to 30%. Rare to see 99.9 on the display now; no heater usage. Noticeable increase in power requirements in a range of situations to hold speed (anywhere up to 1 tick mark higher, which can mean being unable to remain in EV mode at all).

Not happy.

Hybrids most certainly seem more sensitive to increased rolling resistance. This is with only 2 fitted; I'd hate to have four of them.

I remember the original Prius tyres being slimmer to aid economy.

The heater shouldn't be a problem unless you select windscreen only, that definitely stops the going into EV.

[YarisHybrid2016]

2 minutes ago, Anthony Poli said:

The heater shouldn't be a problem unless you select windscreen only, that definitely stops the going into EV.

Wait, what? Even if it is *NOT* in Auto mode when pressing the button?

[Anthony Poli]

8 minutes ago, YarisHybrid2016 said:

Wait, what? Even if it is *NOT* in Auto mode when pressing the button?

I was meaning, if I press the windscreen button which cancels AUTO. Once the windows are clear I press Auto again and suddenly I get EV again.

Hopefully I made more sense this time.

[YarisHybrid2016]

16 minutes ago, Anthony Poli said:

I was meaning, if I press the windscreen button which cancels AUTO. Once the windows are clear I press Auto again and suddenly I get EV again.

Hopefully I made more sense this time.

Yes.

I have found if it is in AUTO when I press the windscreen button, it will automatically ramp up the fan to max. I haven't noticed the selected temperature change though (either indicated or actual).

I'm wondering if it does it more generally as a result of windscreen being selected, regardless of auto or manual?

Other things I discovered this week:

Driving at between 20-30 MPH you can enter EV MODE (button) and go to 4 tick marks without it starting the ICE, and if you drop below 20 MPH you can accelerate back to 30 MPH in this mode; however, If you enter EV MODE below 20 MPH or stop, you can't exceed 20 MPH in EV MODE.