Clutch

[Clare Hall]

I purchased a brand new Aygo earlier this year 2017 model, clutch went on Wednesday after only 3000 miles on the clock, AA said it’s the pressure plate, And took the car to Hodgsons Toyota North Shields silver link, they stripped the clutch and explained its not a warranty job and cost to rebuild with new parts is £658 the plastic bush in the ware plate that fits in the splines is stripped apparently my poor driving, i previously had a Rav 4 and a citron C1 and never experienced similar, has my driving technique changed overnight or is this just bull, very angry with Toyota, the car has failed to start 3 times, AA called, took the car to Toyota, guess what, it’s that time of year headlights on radio etc causing drain, now they say it’s short trips that cause the drain, last time it failed to start was broad daylight, from running fine to nothing when the key is turned, so apparently, if I heard right this small city car is no good unless it’s driven for miles to maintain the Battery, or am I wrong that the alternator should be suppling sufficiency back to the Battery, we are sick of the car and to be fair also Toyota trying to fob us off. I just can’t believe that ware and tear can be even discussed after 3000 miles, abuse! Well I had the C1 for 3 years 18000 miles and never experienced the same issues, £658 a disgrace, what ever happened to Toyota quality, now I regret selling the Rav it was a 2006 model and was running perfectly. 

Major rant, 5 year warranty, what a disgrace. 

[Heidfirst]

1 hour ago, Clare Hall said:

Well I had the C1 for 3 years 18000 miles and never experienced the same issues, £658 a disgrace, what ever happened to Toyota quality,

Hi Clare, welcome to TOC

 

Is this a manual or the semi-auto? Just when did you register the car (this affects your consumer rights)?

Clutches are treated as consumables by most, if not all, manufacturers & are not covered by full warranty (often only 3-6 months). I appreciate that you are disappointed but bear in mind that the C1,108 & Aygo are built on the same line, in the same factory, by the same people using the same mechanical parts so unless it's a configuration not offered by them you would have been just as likely to have suffered the same problem with one of those if you had gone with their equivalent engine/transmission.

Have you taken this up with Toyota Customer Services directly & not just with the dealer?

[paulie b]

Hi Clare. In my opinion, you have every right to be angry and so would I in your situation. Personally, I'd be on to Toyota UKs CEO to air my grievances (personally I find it works wonders when you go straight to the top). I only us my car for short journeys - but make sure I drive a longish one at least once a week to maintain the Battery charge. 

I hope you get this matter sorted out to your satisfaction. Keep us informed. 

[fordulike]

Totally agree with Scott and Paul, talk to Toyota HQ.

Toyota will want to maintain the AYGO's 100% reliability record, highlighted in What Car's reliability survey recently.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Whilst sympathetic, I feel we don't have the full story. 

The car could be anything up to 50 weeks old, and it is common amongst motor manufacturers to provide limited cover for clutches under their new car warranty. Any new car warranty covers manufacturing faults and not wear and tear.

As regards the Battery drain, the Aygo doesn't seem to have charging or Battery issues normally. Could the car have been left parked with the lights on - interior light for example - or with only accessories on and the engine not running?

Your best course of action may be to contact Toyota GB by e-mail - https://www.toyota.co.uk/contact-us  Be factual and polite,  rather than emotive, and ask them to look at the clutch issue. If the clutch issue isn't a manufacturing fault, they may be willing to offer a goodwill contribution towards the clutch repair.

 

[fordulike]

2 hours ago, Clare Hall said:

the plastic bush in the ware plate that fits in the splines is stripped apparently my poor driving

I didn't think the clutch assembly had any plastic parts incorporated, due to the high temperatures that can occur within a clutch system.

Can anyone shed some light on this plastic part?

[zuh]

Hi,

Did you drive your Aygo in town? Did you notice anything strange with the clutch? Did you find your Aygo hard to drive?

It is true that the clutch is considered as a wearing part. But at such a low mileage, the driving style should not be in cause! This must be a bad assembly.

See with your insurance company if it includes a legal coverage, your insurance might provide the advice and help from a lawyer. Ask Toyota to take up all costs under warranty!

[mickburkesnr]

5 hours ago, fordulike said:

I didn't think the clutch assembly had any plastic parts incorporated, due to the high temperatures that can occur within a clutch system.

Can anyone shed some light on this plastic part?

There is no plastic used in the clutch assembly. 

[fordulike]

27 minutes ago, mickburkesnr said:

There is no plastic used in the clutch assembly. 

Thought not. So is the dealer fobbing Clare off with a bull***t excuse, or have communications got mixed?. I hope it's not the former, coz I bought my current car from the same dealer and was planning on buying my next one from them too. If it turns out that they are bull***t merchants, then I'll take my custom elsewhere.

[Wiz201]

Take it up the chain to HQ, I would not expect something like that to go wrong on a 17 plate Aygo. 

[T.F.S.B.I.G.W.S.]

I have to decide between a new C1 or Aygo over the next 2 weeks. It will  be interesting to see how this develops

[FROSTYBALLS]

Virtually the same post on another forum - https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4521312

At the end of the day the C1, 108 and Aygo are effectively the same car and are built by the same joint venture in Czech Republic. Looking at the C1/108 forums, there doesn't seem to be any common clutch issue with the second generation cars. 

If an owner has an issue with their new car warranty, whether that is Toyota or another manufacturer, they can take it up with the manufacturer/importer directly or consider taking action under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (if applicable).

Be interesting to see whether further posts are made or whether it is a one off ....

[paulie b]

23 hours ago, fordulike said:

I didn't think the clutch assembly had any plastic parts incorporated, due to the high temperatures that can occur within a clutch system.

Can anyone shed some light on this plastic part?

When I first read it, I thought it was strange that a component such as a clutch should have a plastic part. From what another poster said it turns out it doesn't. I also agree with zuh. As far as I can see it, unless you were continually riding the clutch, there can be no real reason for it to wear out so quickly. 

[Devon Aygo]

19 hours ago, T.F.S.B.I.G.W.S. said:

I have to decide between a new C1 or Aygo over the next 2 weeks. It will  be interesting to see how this develops

Unless you are choosing the C1 with the 1.2 they are mechanically identical with the 1.0 engine only the Aygo has a 5 year warranty the C1 has 3 

[T.F.S.B.I.G.W.S.]

1 minute ago, Devon Aygo said:

Unless you are choosing the C1 with the 1.2 they are mechanically identical with the 1.0 engine only the Aygo has a 5 year warranty the C1 has 3 

5 years sounds good - I guess Clare  is pleased about that

[Devon Aygo]

2 minutes ago, T.F.S.B.I.G.W.S. said:

5 years sounds good - I guess Clare  is pleased about that

As Clare has not responded further we do not know anything more beyond her original post and as with many posts on a Forum such as this we only have the OP's word to form an opinion on, no one is going to come on a forum to complain about something and admit that they may be the cause of said issue.

The fact is the single biggest cause of clutch failure is caused by the driver, having worked in the trade for (too long ) I have never met someone with a failed clutch who has accepted the failure could be their fault even we presented with clear evidence of the fact ( including reports from independent engineers ) that it was.

Working at dealer level I know without hesitation that if the gearbox was removed and the fault was a manufacturing defect Toyota would pay when presented with a claim evidencing such, they will not however pay if the only defect present is a worn out clutch plate as this is not a fault it is wear and tare caused by the manner in which the car has been driven.

Sitting in front of a computer we are all quick to form opinions correct or incorrect however none of us are in possession of facts all i can suggest to the OP is to question the dealer further ask them to provide proof to support their findings and if after receiving this you are still not satisfied look to see if you can get an independent party ( such as an independent vehicle engineer ) discuss this with the dealer/Toyota and look for an agreement where the dealer/Toyota will cover the cost of the inspection should the engineer agree the fault is a manufacturing defect.

[zuh]

Devon Aygo, I totally agree with you.

Regarding the clutch, the problem is that a defective part or an improper assembly (bad adjustment...) will result in a bad use and lead to premature wear. Eventually, the blame will be laid on the driver, which is not fair.

Remember the first Aygos / C1s / 107s: clutches failed even on MMT versions. Their owners were reproached with not driving properly, driving in Fast'n'Furious style or driving too much in town, which should be normal for a 'city car'. This is sheer dishonesty as the clutch is handled by the MMT system. Many outrageous remarks pointing at the driver's incapacity to drive were heard until it was publicly admitted that there was some issue with the clutch.

I am convinced that even poorly driven, in the hands of a junior or senior driver for instance, a clutch should resist more than 3000 miles. I am also aware that handling the clutch of an Aygo is VERY particular and requires more concentration than avarage cars.

This case looks like a combination of bad assembly, bad driving and bad luck, much like Megan Dixon with 2 engines and 3 clutches in 22000 miles:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3819397/Worst-car-Couple-say-endured-three-years-nightmare-breakdowns-Toyota-dump-outside-dealership-damning-warning-daubed-it.html

[paulie b]

I think the point to remember is that Clare was told that at fault was a component made of plastic. Another member points out that there are no plastic parts within the clutch assembly. So, for clarifications sake, could someone give us a definitive answer on this?

Is there or is there not a plastic bush located within the wear plate?

 

  

[FROSTYBALLS]

The basic point is that we don't know the full story, and we don't really know whether the OP was told the clutch contained a plastic part or not, or whether it was something else.

We also don't know how old the car is - if it is less than six months old the OP has redress under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. If older than six months the redress is reduced, but still there. Claire can also refer the case to Motor Codes for arbitration.

It is pointless conjecturing further on what may or may not be the case.

The case featured in the Mail is quite different and just confuses this topic. Presumably the supposed offer made to the person featured was actually the market value of that car at the time the offer was made - the car is between four and five years old, depending when it was first registered. This case is now subject to arbitration.

 

[mickburkesnr]

On 15/12/2017 at 11:29 PM, T.F.S.B.I.G.W.S. said:

I have to decide between a new C1 or Aygo over the next 2 weeks. It will  be interesting to see how this develops

While my 107 from Peugeot has been brilliant, I had problems with the clutch as well. It failed at about 58,000 miles. I was told it was wear and tear etc and that it was essentially my fault. I moved on with my life, paid £200 to get it replaced and it's been fine since. However, the clutch on my 3008 decided to break at the same milleage point as the 107, and this was second hand to me. Clutches just seem to last 60,000 miles now because there's no asbestos in them (thank God!). 

I will say though that from everything I've read about Toyota and their dealerships, even going to my local one for parts for my old Corolla, nothing was too much trouble. Very very very good customer service. Peugeot Citroen on the other hand, well they've got your money it's not their problem the car's broken.

I would be surprised though if we hear back from the OP as it just seemed like a rant, like we all do, to give the manufacturer a kicking on a public forum. I'd like to be proved wrong though.

[T.F.S.B.I.G.W.S.]

tbh i have submitted an online scrappage inquiry to Toyota twice in the past few weeks and have not received a reply. I wonder if the deadline for any of these scrappage deals will be extended

[FROSTYBALLS]

The current scheme runs until 31st December, which ties in with Toyota's other marketing offers - see below.

I would imagine the scheme may well be extended to the end of the financial year, as is the case with some other manufacturers, but this isn't guaranteed, and it is possible the discounts and models available may change. Often dealers, regardless of marque, don't know the detail of revised offers until a couple of days before the offers begin.

Why not approach your local dealer(s) directly before the end of the year - 31/12/17.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

The Toyota website is now showing the scrappage scheme runs through to the end of January - https://www.toyota.co.uk/toyota-scrappage-scheme?WT.ac=%2Ftoyota-scrappage-scheme

[T.F.S.B.I.G.W.S.]

12 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

The Toyota website is now showing the scrappage scheme runs through to the end of January - https://www.toyota.co.uk/toyota-scrappage-scheme?WT.ac=%2Ftoyota-scrappage-scheme

thanks