12V Battery Charger

[Mojo1010]

May not be entirely a charging problem. The 12v may not be charged in the conventional way of a normal car from reading comments. So perhap Toyota need to change the charging method so it gets a high charge when driving at a fast speed?

Many of members here do less than 15k miles a year, so the problem may be a bad 12v Battery. I did below 7k miles a year for 5 years on my last car the MK3 hybrid, never had a problem with starting. 

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, Chas G said:

Out of interest do you think it's normal to have a car sitting there with a flat 12 volt battery but a perfectly serviceable traction battery as reported by so many people.

This is absolutely normal and expected - The traction Battery is completely disconnected when the car is off, so there is no parasitic losses aside from its natural losses over time, which are minuscule. This means it can hold its charge for a very long time just like any Battery that isn't plugged into anything.

The 12v Battery is different - It's still very much in use when the car is off - All the standby systems like the remote central locking, internet connection (If it has a cloud system), alarms, and especially the keyless entry system etc. are all live and pulling power from the 12v battery constantly when the car is off.

Newer cars tend to put a lot more load on the 12v batteries when off; With many older cars, the standby load is far smaller.

I think Toyota did put too-small a battery in, and also one of suspect quality (Why they used some weird company rather than the usual Yuasa brand ones baffles me; I can only assume it's some condition of manufacturing in the EU), but they really should be better than this, especially since it's not a new problem for them.

[hind]

26 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Why they used some weird company rather than the usual Yuasa brand ones baffles me

I think everyone knows why was it used 🙂 The same reason why they didn't include light over the back seats. 

Cost optimisation.

 

[Cyker]

Maybe, but Toyota are usually better at cost engineering than this - The Mk4 is a prime example; It's very clear the majority of the budget went into the drivetrain, while things like comfort, NVH and panel gaps and alignment had a much lower priority   This is why the cars last forever but journalists hate them as their delicate bottoms and hands are used to more expensive wood and leather and soft plastic finishes.

 

[Stopeter44]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

This is why the cars last forever but journalists hate them

All the things you outlined, plus that most automotive journalists don't drive a hybrid on a regular basis and haven't or won't adapt the driving style accordingly. They even call the transmission CVT (doesn't help that Toyota calls it e-CVT), and whine about that the revs don't go up as the speed goes up, etc.

[Chas G]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

This is absolutely normal and expected - The traction battery is completely disconnected when the car is off, so there is no parasitic losses aside from its natural losses over time, which are minuscule. This means it can hold its charge for a very long time just like any battery that isn't plugged into anything.

The 12v battery is different - It's still very much in use when the car is off - All the standby systems like the remote central locking, internet connection (If it has a cloud system), alarms, and especially the keyless entry system etc. are all live and pulling power from the 12v battery constantly when the car is off.

Newer cars tend to put a lot more load on the 12v batteries when off; With many older cars, the standby load is far smaller.

I think Toyota did put too-small a battery in, and also one of suspect quality (Why they used some weird company rather than the usual Yuasa brand ones baffles me; I can only assume it's some condition of manufacturing in the EU), but they really should be better than this, especially since it's not a new problem for them.

Thank you for your response. Good to hear that a full traction Battery, a flat 12 volt Battery and a car that won't go anywhere is perfectly normal and to be expected.

It is reassuring to know that I didn't waste the £22,500 I paid for the car. 

[Cyker]

2 hours ago, Stopeter44 said:

All the things you outlined, plus that most automotive journalists don't drive a hybrid on a regular basis and haven't or won't adapt the driving style accordingly. They even call the transmission CVT (doesn't help that Toyota calls it e-CVT), and whine about that the revs don't go up as the speed goes up, etc.

It's when they start talking about the cones and belts in the gearbox that I quickly switch off...   

It's hard to give someone credit when they, the supposed expert, don't even understand the basics of how the car works!

 

[Stopeter44]

17 hours ago, Chas G said:

Thank you for your response. Good to hear that a full traction battery, a flat 12 volt battery and a car that won't go anywhere is perfectly normal and to be expected.

Was that sarcasm ?

If it is, then I understand your frustration. I've been able to leave regular ICE cars up to a month and not had a worry. OTOH, I had a very old VW polo for a while that, prior to my use of it, was very little used. That car, would have a flat Battery after only a week. 

You can call the 12V Battery issue a feature or a bug, depending on your perspective. If you use your car daily, you want have a problem, but if you do only 5 miles once a week, then it's a different story, and a hybrid isn't going to be a good buy for you.

[Mojo1010]

22 hours ago, hind said:

I think everyone knows why was it used 🙂 The same reason why they didn't include light over the back seats. 

Cost optimisation.

 

Exactly. Supposedly heard from a member Toyota will be putting a bigger Battery in the Yaris at least for new cars next year. 

18 hours ago, Chas G said:

Thank you for your response. Good to hear that a full traction battery, a flat 12 volt battery and a car that won't go anywhere is perfectly normal and to be expected.

It is reassuring to know that I didn't waste the £22,500 I paid for the car. 

You mentioned you have not encounter a Battery problem yet, so this sarcasm isn't warranted. We suggest your friends chr has a bad/faulty Battery. 

[Chas G]

6 hours ago, Stopeter44 said:

Was that sarcasm ?

If it is, then I understand your frustration. I've been able to leave regular ICE cars up to a month and not had a worry. OTOH, I had a very old VW polo for a while that, prior to my use of it, was very little used. That car, would have a flat battery after only a week. 

You can call the 12V battery issue a feature or a bug, depending on your perspective. If you use your car daily, you want have a problem, but if you do only 5 miles once a week, then it's a different story, and a hybrid isn't going to be a good buy for you.

And @Mojo1010

72 plate Yaris Cross.

I was simply quoting @Cyker but admit being sarcastic. I do about 50 miles a week.

I have taken out the dash cam, disabled the keyless entry, confirmed that the car is not connected to MyT and I will also charge the Battery using a Ctek 5 once a week. I also checked that the interior and boot lights go off. 

I will get the car fully serviced early in the new year and ask if they can fit the bigger capacity 45Ah Yuasa Battery (175×175×195 I think) that someone recommended on here.

I think I have taken all reasonable precautions but have a fully charged Noco Battery pack in the glove box just in case.

Can't think of anything else but always happy to listen to suggestions.

I must say that I love the car and it feels quicker than my 2020 Yaris Y20.

[Mojo1010]

No need to take Dashcam off, connected services, keyless (use it, it's great!) and changing to a bigger Battery in your case as you are going to be charging the Battery regularly. 

I do 3-4x the mileage u do a week. I don't have a jump start, my Dashcam is connected to accessory, so not live. Connected services connected. Not looking to upgrade the Battery unless faulty. 

Y20 I think it's MK3 99bhp, mk4 has more power 114-116 bhp and more refined. 

 

[Stopeter44]

58 minutes ago, Chas G said:

I do about 50 miles a week.

That's about 2500-3000 miles per year. When I lived in the big city I was doing c. 5000 miles per year. I now do more like 10k miles per year. I've had one incident, when I left the car 20 plus days, it didn't start and I had to call Toyota assistance, it was only an inconvenience to me fortunately.

As yet I haven't gone to your belt and braces (and velcro?) approach. I've had  the car 2 years. For my use it's ideal, although I would like better seats and better quality materials.

I guess you've seen the standard advice of letting the car stand unready mode at least 1 hour continuously per week if it's used only lightly. I would consider your use to be light.