Excel 16 Inch or wait for the 15 inch?

[WhiteWinter]

I currently have a Nissan Micra 2016 but am now looking into the Toyota Yaris Hybrid Excel due to Fuel efficiency and wanted to update. Having been to the showroom today I have had a drive in two, both of which were Icon Tech's. I can get the Icon Tech new for January but really want the Excel with 15 inch alloy wheels. After everything I have been told by the staff that I can get the Excel but with 16 inch alloy wheels, new in February, but for the 15 inch alloy wheels I would need to wait til Mid-April and obviously by then the prices may have changed, (The finance contribution of £750 ends April 2nd I think). So would it be worth me waiting or should I take the 16 inch version? Will it make any difference in value after the 3 years? and how much difference does it really make on the fuel? 

Thanks in Advance!

[FROSTYBALLS]

Presumably the 16 inch wheels have a lower profile tyre than the 15 inch - so the ride may be a bit harder and fuel consumption will probably be slightly worse. The official fuel consumption figures are: combined/extra urban  78.46mpg (16 inch)/85.6 (15 inch); urban 85.6 (16inch)/91.12(15 inch). However, bear in mind that the official fuel consumption figures are obtained using a laboratory testing regime, and are not representative of the fuel consumption an owner may achieve in a real world scenario.

Toyota's sales offers change on a three monthly cycle (Jan-Mar, Apr-Jun, July-Sept, Oct-Dec) so the offers in the first quarter may differ to the offers in the second quarter.

The different sized wheels will have a negligible effect on the value of the car at three years of age. If you choose the 15 inch wheels, bear in mind that as you're moving away from the standard spec, your insurer may consider the change a modification and may charge an extra premium.

Really as to whether you buy now or later, is a choice for you alone.

[Mick F]

We have a 2014 Excel with 16" wheels, but if I could change to 15" easily, I would.

The main problem, as I see it, is that 16" tyres are quite expensive compared to 15"

Mick.

[Nick B]

I would go for the Icon Tech or the Excel with 15 inch wheels if adds features you really want.

The advantages of the 15 inch wheels over the 16 inch are:

1. Better fuel economy (theoretically): combined mpg 85.6 mpg vs 78.4 mg, CO2 combined 75g/km vs 82g/km.
2. Better turning circle: radius 4.8m vs 5.5m.
3. Cheaper tyres: 175/65R15 vs 195/50R16? (could be £70 vs £100 per tyre).
4. Option to inflate tires to higher pressures for better fuel economy at expense of ride comfort (eco recommendation in owners manual and on tyre pressure label)
5. Better ride comfort.
6. Exempt from London congestion charge.

The 16 inch wheels with wider tires may have slightly better handling and performance but if performance and handling are your priorities you probably would not choose a Yaris Hybrid.

I bought a Yaris Icon Hybrid with 15 inch wheels at the end of September. I had selected the Icon Tech as being the best option for me but the dealer had an Icon with parking sensors in the colour I wanted in stock and I got a good deal with the dealer installed Sat Nav option (I got the car in 3 days).

After driving the car for 3400 miles I would say that the 175/65R15 tyres are fine.

The only reason I would go for the Excel would be to be able to get the convenience pack with smart entry and auto folding door mirrors but by the time you pay the extra for the Excel, buy the parking pack, the sat nav option and the convenience pack you are paying quite a bit more. (The push button start in the Icon Hybrid is a bit of a gateway drug to the full smart entry system). If you have children the rear electric windows in the Excel (which can be locked from the driver's door) might be the deciding issue. I don't find the rear parking sensors very useful when I have the rear camera so the front only parking sensors on the Icon Tech would have been fine.

[Mick F]

Question:

Our Hybrid Excel has 195/50R16 tyres.

Can you fit a narrower tyre than 195 but still have the same rolling circumference, and would a narrower one be cheaper?

Thanks, Mick.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Use a tyre size calculator which will show the speedometer error - eg https://tiresize.com/tyre-size-calculator/

Bear in mind that it is illegal for a speedometer to under read.

[Mick F]

Arithmetic:

195/50R16 has a overall diameter of (97.5mm x 2) + 40.64mm = 235.64mm  ......................... where 16" = 47.4mm and 50% of 195mm is 97.5mm

If I fitted 175/60R16 it would have an overall diameter of (105mm x 2) + 40.64mm = 250.64mm ........................ where 105mm is 60% of 175mm

This means that the overall wheel/tyre diameter would be 15mm bigger in 175/60R16 ie 15mm x Pi = 47mm greater circumference.

Now, the question is, how far does the speedometer read above the true figure?  Manufacturers know the law, so they design the speedometers to err on the high side.  I reckon that they could well be 5% high, perhaps 10%.  I think that when I have had TomTom in the car, my speedo says 30mph, and I'm actually doing 27mph.

I will take my TomTom with me next time out, plus take my Garmin Montana and actually record the drive, and we'll see what the figure is.  With a bit more arithmetic, I think it could be shown that the speedo would still be reading a little bit high with 175/60R16 instead of 195/50R16.

However, what's the price difference in the tyres, and is it worth the effort?? 

Mick. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

In the UK, speedometers should never under read - show less than the actual speed. They should also read no more than 110% of the actual speed. Additionally for speeds between 25 and 70mph, they should show no more than 110% of the actual speed plus 6.25mph.

So for a true speed of 30mph, the speedometer can legally show a speed of 39.25mph.

Sat nav speed readings are an average speed over a given number of points, so although more accurate than speedometers, still have a degree of error.

[Mick F]

Satnav, I agree with you.  The sort you have in a car.

My Garmin Montana will do satnav, but it's mainly a handheld GPS device for telling you where you are and all sorts of facts about speed/distance/time/elevation etc and has full mapping in Ordnance Survey too.  Mine is set to record a data point every 4yds up to a max of one per second.  This means that the speed and distance readouts are continually being updated.  I have a magnetic antenna that I could put on the roof to improve the signal reception, but it's fine as it is unless under tree cover or near tall buildings.  We have enough open space roads here to get a useful comparison figure at a constant speed.

We used to have a Fiat500 and I did a similar experiment regarding the odometer.  Checking the distance is easier and simpler that checking the actual speed.  It was amazing to me that the odometer readings of a Fiat500 are spot on. I was gobsmacked to find this out.  How they are calibrated when there are different models and wheel/tyre combinations, I don't know.  All I do know, that ours was spot on, but I didn't check the speedo though.

I'll check the distance as well as the speed on our Yaris, but I may not be out in the car until Tuesday.

Mick.

[Mike J.]

On our cars there can be up to 3 versions of speed available:

1. ECU speed - real speed as worked out by the car's computer
2. speedo readout - uses ECU readout with a safety factor added in so it over-reads by about 2 mph at all speeds
3. GPS speed - if satnav fitted - probably only used by the speed warning system

You can see all the speeds via Torque Pro or you can download the 'glass of water' app to see the ECU speed displayed.

[WhiteWinter]

They are saying that if I wait til April my car value will probably drop by another £600 and then plus the price of the 15 inch alloys (it's extra) I would end up paying another £1000 on the price. Is that really worth it or should I just stick to the 16 inch?

[FROSTYBALLS]

26 minutes ago, WhiteWinter said:

They are saying that if I wait til April my car value will probably drop by another £600 and then plus the price of the 15 inch alloys (it's extra) I would end up paying another £1000 on the price. Is that really worth it or should I just stick to the 16 inch?

The value if your current car will reduce between now and April - that is inevitable - though by how much is conjecture at this time.

Also going for the Excel over the Icon Tech will cost an additional £1100 based on list prices, so the extra cost may be potentially up to £2,100. That is assuming the list prices don't increase between now and April.

You could look at the prospective fuel/cost savings and compare that to the extra expenditure over your anticipated ownership.

For example from the Honest John Real mpg information on the Yaris, the average consumption owners get from the hybrid is 58mpg - https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/toyota/yaris-and-yaris-hybrid-2011/15-vvt-i-hybrid.    Assuming you do 30,000 miles during your ownership, getting 58mpg from the 16 inch wheeled Yaris will consume approx 517 gallons. If the 15 inch wheeled Yaris gives you, say, an extra 5mpg, at around 63mpg,, this will consume 476 gallons. At a cost of £5.45 per gallon (£1.20 per litre) this represents a fuel saving of 41 gallons and a cost saving of £223 over 30,000 miles. If you do less mileage, the cost saving will be less.

So potentially an Excel with 15 inch wheels registered in April may cost you up to £2,100 more the an Icon Tech with 16 inch wheels registered in January, for a fuel cost saving of £223 based on 30,000 miles.

Obviously the above is only a possible scenario.

Alternatively you could shop around to see whether other Toyota dealers have an Excel with 15 inch wheels in stock.

Ultimately, it is your money and your decision - over to you.

[Bomber209]

Mark Hi,Read the owners manual, it gives 15" as an option. As Nick B said it can impact on some road charges. Take the deal and get a set of 15" wheels from e-bay or Gumtree etc or ask the dealer to swap them for one of their other 'For Sale' cars.

[Mick F]

I'll start a new thread regarding speed readings speedometer vs accurate GPS records.

I was out today and checked it out.  Odometer is bang on, but the speedo was quite a way out.

Mick.

[Bill_F]

I have 15” wheel excel (65 reg) which is more supple ride, theoretically better in snow, better fuel economy, lower emissions (75 and states this in V5 so within limit for London) and is £400 cheaper than 16” standard excel. It’s a standard model, not modified, so no insurance hike or hassle.

If you need it you can also get Michelin CrossClimate + tyres in that size, unlike 16”, which are summer tyres with winter rating so suit UK climate and avoid buying summer and winter tyres if you are type of person who considers this important ( I realise majority of UK drivers don’t bother).

Bill

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 minute ago, Bill_F said:

I have 15” wheel excel (65 reg) which is more supple ride, theoretically better in snow, better fuel economy, lower emissions (75 and states this in V5 so within limit for London) and is £400 cheaper than 16” standard excel. It’s a standard model, not modified, so no insurance hike or hassle.

The OP said the 15 inch wheels/tyres were a cost option (£400).

The Yaris was facelifted in 2017, so the equipment fitted to the current range and the options available have changed since 2015.

[Bill_F]

Please check the Toyota website (as I did before posting). When I purchased in 2015 the 15” was no cost option but now if you tick 15” wheels on configuration for Excel price drops by £400. I checked because I couldn’t believe the price would increase for cheaper rims and tyres. I expect dealer was just trying for quick sale or lazy option.

Bill

[WhiteWinter]

Oops I didn't realise that the £400 was the other way round. Im sure that why I put it into a car buying site it put the price up by £400 :S. Are there any advantages to the 16 inch wheels?

[Bill_F]

2 hours ago, WhiteWinter said:

Oops I didn't realise that the £400 was the other way round. Im sure that why I put it into a car buying site it put the price up by £400 :S. Are there any advantages to the 16 inch wheels?

It may be that dealers will do a better deal on a more common configuration. 16” should have better traction (because of larger area of rubber in contact with road - also nearly bald tyres would help for similar reasons :-) ) on a nice dry warm and smooth road - not in the UK then!

IMO

bill

[YarisHybrid2016]

I have 16" on mine as they are wider than the 15" so should offer more grip.

The tyres are more expensive, but I got 24k miles out of the fronts, and the rears still had 5 mm tread (so they should be good for 50k miles on the rear!). I think they have 8 mm tread when new.

Note that I do put my foot down occasionally, so you might be able to get more out the front.