Fuel Consumption

[Cjohnston1982]

2 hours ago, aygoes said:

Please describe that little harder to start and what is the little difference ?

I’ve just found it needs a few more turns of the engine (1-2 second more maybe) before it fires up after a couple of tanks of premium. Found it happens in most cars actually.

[aygoes]

20 hours ago, Cjohnston1982 said:

I’ve just found it needs a few more turns of the engine (1-2 second more maybe) before it fires up after a couple of tanks of premium. Found it happens in most cars actually.

Does premium fuel clean the engine?

[FROSTYBALLS]

Both premium and standard fuels have additive packages, which contain detergents, etc, to help keep the engine clean internally. Think historically, branded standard unleaded fuels (eg. BP, etc) have better additive packages than supermarket fuels, and premium fuels tend to have better additive packages than standard unleaded.

We've been using a mix of standard and premium unleaded in our cars for years - for example when we go on holiday to Skye each year (520 miles each way), we tend to use premium for better responsiveness on the motorway - and haven't noticed that using premium over standard unleaded has made any of our cars harder to start.

[Cyker]

Generally the cleaning packages in fuels aren't worth a damn until you go to the stupidly expensive fuels like V-Power , Ultimate, Excellenenenenenium etc.

 

Shell did do a FuelSave version of their fuels which had slightly upped the cleaning agents but they seem to have discontinued that as I haven't seen it available at any of the Shell's near me in years (My theory it it was cutting into their V-Power sales!)

You can always pop down to a Halfords or whatever and get some Millers or other fuel system cleaner and just use that with normal fuel. Or that BG-something-something stuff a few forum members swear by! (Although I haven't seen most of them for a while... Where have they all gone?!)
 

[paulie b]

This may be of interest.....

 

http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/aygo

[Bike_loon]

I use V Power in the Porsche as the little label in the fuel flap says 98 RON , it will run on 95 but I do not see the point in buying a sports car and then saving a couple of quid a tank to put a lesser fuel rating in it than it has been set up for. The Aygo just gets regular unleaded, as long as its a main brand its all good.

[aygoes]

Guys in Europe here you can also buy E10 and in the manuals it says E10
also recommended. What do you say ?

[FROSTYBALLS]

E10 may be used as long as it is 95RON or higher.

[scar]

I know its a bit late to reply but I don't come on here very often.

I have my daughters old 2012 aygo fire 5door. 45,000 miles. owned from new serviced by myself. 

In the present cold weather I get 400miles to a tank sometimes 420. Best I had in summer was 60+mpg. At the moment 50 to 55 mpg.

I think my driving style is pretty average.

PS. My daughter was offered a very poor trade in against a BMW 1 series so I bought it off her. Great car for economy but basic. £0 road tax less the £200 fully comp ins. So cheap to run. Will keep it till it goes to the scrap yard in the sky.

 

[paulie b]

Quote

 

10 hours ago, scar said:

£0 road tax less the £200 fully comp ins. So cheap to run. Will keep it till it goes to the scrap yard in the sky.

I hope you don't mind me asking, but which insurer have you used? Being a 55 year old who has been driving without incident since the age of 17, I was ripped off to the tune of £360 (the original quote was over £600) for my 12 plate fire by the AA! I know all the variables and opened a topic on it. I meet all the criteria for low insurance but was foolish enough not to shop round. A mistake I will not make next time!

 

[Planemo]

5 hours ago, paulie b said:

I hope you don't mind me asking, but which insurer have you used? Being a 55 year old who has been driving without incident since the age of 17, I was ripped off to the tune of £360 (the original quote was over £600) for my 12 plate fire by the AA! I know all the variables and opened a topic on it. I meet all the criteria for low insurance but was foolish enough not to shop round. A mistake I will not make next time!

 

£200 fully comp for me this year. Actually it was £220 as there was an admin fee for swopping to the new broker (One Insurance). I am 45 with no points, no garage (but I do have a driveway) and in Essex. Value stated as only £3k though (not that the stated value means anything should it get nicked!).

[paulie b]

1 hour ago, Planemo said:

£200 fully comp for me this year. Actually it was £220 as there was an admin fee for swopping to the new broker (One Insurance). I am 45 with no points, no garage (but I do have a driveway) and in Essex. Value stated as only £3k though (not that the stated value means anything should it get nicked!).

Thanks for that. You don't have a link do you? I've looked on the net and found quite a few 'one' insurance companies.

[fordulike]

4 minutes ago, paulie b said:

Thanks for that. You don't have a link do you? I've looked on the net and found quite a few 'one' insurance companies.

Try Direct Line, Winston Wolfe offered a competitive quote for my Aygo!

[FROSTYBALLS]

According to his post Planemo went through the insurance broker, One Insurance.

[fordulike]

7 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

According to his post Planemo went through the insurance broker, One Insurance.

Whoopsie, should have read the posts properly. My bad 🙁

[Planemo]

Frostys right, although I just looked at my certificate and the header says 'One Insurance Limited' with an address in Malta of all places, but in another box to the right it says 'One Call Insurance' with an address in Doncaster. The number it gives is 01302 554015 if it helps.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Nothing wrong with the insurance company being Maltese but having a UK base. For example Saga own Acromas Insurance who are based in Gibralter, and who provide insurance for Saga and their sister company, The AA.

As regards comparison sites, only one is outside the ownership of an insurance company - Money supermarket.

Car companies (eg Toyota, Ford, etc) don't provide their own insurance, but contract with an insurer to provide insurance under their chosen brand (eg. Toyota Motor Insurance, Ford Insure, etc).

For an example of who owns what, see https://www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/2007/08/who-owns-your-insurer.html   (correct as at January 2016).

 

[paulie b]

19 hours ago, Planemo said:

Frostys right, although I just looked at my certificate and the header says 'One Insurance Limited' with an address in Malta of all places, but in another box to the right it says 'One Call Insurance' with an address in Doncaster. The number it gives is 01302 554015 if it helps.

Hi. I had a look at the online reviews for this company - TBH they aren't good. The general theme which emerged is that they are apparently all okay until you need to make a claim?

WRT fuel consumption, I've done just shy of 140 miles and only the first bar has dropped! I think my fuel gauge is as accurate as a 1950s weather forecast. A few more miles and I expect it to suddenly plummet to half full.

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Good Afternoon peoples,

Ok..so i dropped a notch after hitting 50 miles this morning...so i guess the leak in the exhaust wasnt the issue...GREAT!

My next plan is to get the cat checked and replaced. Is their a way of testing a cat exactly? I feel this has to be the issue because the car feels choked...hesitant so as to speak...its strange...or if not then maybe the fuel filter is clogged...who knows. 

 

I love my car BUT...id really like her to hit 100 miles per notch

[Planemo]

The only real check you can do on a cat is see what the emissions are doing, but this isnt conclusive as to whether it has broken up inside or not. As long as there is still enough cat surface area for the exhaust to pass through, the emissions will still be within limits despite it possibly being broken into several bits and reducing flow. The only way to get an indication is as I suggested before - checking power output on a dyno. If nothing obvious can be found which is holding back power, it can only be a blockage in the intake/exhaust or something internal like piston rings/poor valve sealing (which can be easily checked by carrying out a leakage test).

A clogged fuel filter would give the same symptoms as a worn fuel pump - both would allow less fuel into the engine, not more.

I just bought a used cat for mine from a 2013 Aygo for my mot- £95 inc shipping. I found new ones for less but they were pattern parts and I simply cannot trust them to last more than a year or indeed that they will even bolt ip properly. My experiences with pattern exhaust parts has always been nothing but hassle.

As to whether your problem is the cat, it would still be unlikely imo. Unless it has had a ruddy good whack at some point in its life they are pretty tough old buggers. I have had to gut several various cats now and all have required a fair bit of effort with a hammer, chisel and screwdriver. They are not as fragile as some would believe.

The concern I would have with yours is that if it is indeed shovelling that much fuel through the engine then you may have permanently damaged the cat anyway, so I would be reluctant to bolt another one on unless it was very cheap. On the flip side, it could just be your cat that is the sole problem. Decisions...dyno time or replace cat and hope for the best...one way could result in wasted money on the dyno...the other could be wasted money on a cat...

Personally I would go the dyno route at this point. Tell them it is using lots of fuel and feels down on power. You should get some good data (and see what the emissions are doing) and likely a diagnosis for around £150. Then you can go from there.

You pays yer money..!

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

4 hours ago, Planemo said:

The only real check you can do on a cat is see what the emissions are doing, but this isnt conclusive as to whether it has broken up inside or not. As long as there is still enough cat surface area for the exhaust to pass through, the emissions will still be within limits despite it possibly being broken into several bits and reducing flow. The only way to get an indication is as I suggested before - checking power output on a dyno. If nothing obvious can be found which is holding back power, it can only be a blockage in the intake/exhaust or something internal like piston rings/poor valve sealing (which can be easily checked by carrying out a leakage test).

A clogged fuel filter would give the same symptoms as a worn fuel pump - both would allow less fuel into the engine, not more.

I just bought a used cat for mine from a 2013 Aygo for my mot- £95 inc shipping. I found new ones for less but they were pattern parts and I simply cannot trust them to last more than a year or indeed that they will even bolt ip properly. My experiences with pattern exhaust parts has always been nothing but hassle.

As to whether your problem is the cat, it would still be unlikely imo. Unless it has had a ruddy good whack at some point in its life they are pretty tough old buggers. I have had to gut several various cats now and all have required a fair bit of effort with a hammer, chisel and screwdriver. They are not as fragile as some would believe.

The concern I would have with yours is that if it is indeed shovelling that much fuel through the engine then you may have permanently damaged the cat anyway, so I would be reluctant to bolt another one on unless it was very cheap. On the flip side, it could just be your cat that is the sole problem. Decisions...dyno time or replace cat and hope for the best...one way could result in wasted money on the dyno...the other could be wasted money on a cat...

Personally I would go the dyno route at this point. Tell them it is using lots of fuel and feels down on power. You should get some good data (and see what the emissions are doing) and likely a diagnosis for around £150. Then you can go from there.

You pays yer money..!

Cheers Planemo,

Thank you for an indepth response.

Re.a dyno test...i do not know of anybody who has a dyno machine and i cannot seem to find anybody within Leicestershire either...but more important i’d find it difficult to part with a 150 smackers to pay for it!!!

I’d rather risk the replace cat route instead...but prior to that i’d conduct a leakage test as you suggested...and investigate the fuel pump and filter at the same time. I intend to ring my dealership tomorrow re.a new cat quote, as i do not see the point in buying a used cat since one cannot determine the condition of it.

I shall keep you posted.

Cheers again!

[Planemo]

I suspect a new cat from Toyota is around 300+ quid. Add in the exhaust manifold and downpipe gaskets, plus labour....

Rather you than me in going that route rather than stick it on a rolling road and finding out once and for all what the issue is.

The point of me going for a used Toyota cat was because as gambles go it's pretty safe. As long as the cat isnt broken (which the delaer confirmed was the case prior to sale), theres not a lot that can go wrong with them other than get contaminiated with age. And given it was from a 2013 car with only 38k miles I would wager it has a fair bit of life left in it. And it came with the o2 sensor so thats something else I won't need to replace for a good while yet. I fitted it all up today and it's perfect.

I would expect some good evidence of exhaust smoke if the rings were seriously worn. Valve seats not so, but I have not heard of any issues with the 1KR-FE valves/seats either so it's still a long shot.

Rolling road in Leicestershire:

http://www.sptuning.co.uk/rollingroad.html

70 quid an hour. Can't see it taking more than 2, you might even get a diagnosis in 1. They could also check fuel pressure and do a leakage test.

Theres also http://www.r-techpower.co.uk/r-tech-rolling-road.htm

[aygoes]

Guys, entering this discussion, I had question, whenever I want put fuel in, the car pops air from that hole. Is that normal ?

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, aygoes said:

Guys, entering this discussion, I had question, whenever I want put fuel in, the car pops air from that hole. Is that normal ?

All cars have a breather tube somewhere by the filler hose - air gets displaced as fuel is pumped into the tank.

[aygoes]

37 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

All cars have a breather tube somewhere by the filler hose - air gets displaced as fuel is pumped into the tank.

So, should I go to the service of the dealer and get it checked ? Whenever I open the hole to put fuel in, I get air popped out of that hole.