Fuel Consumption

[FROSTYBALLS]

28 minutes ago, aygoes said:

So, should I go to the service of the dealer and get it checked ? Whenever I open the hole to put fuel in, I get air popped out of that hole.

No should be OK - its normal.

[aygoes]

48 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

No should be OK - its normal.

Thanks, I left you a private message.

[Cyker]

100 miles per block might be a bit optimistic; Even my old Mk1 Yaris averaged 75 miles per block and that car is easily the most economical car I've ever owned (I doubt even the HSDs could come close to it when driven in the same way!)

 

As for air from the fuel nozzle, that is normal for petrol, assuming you're talking about what I think you're talking about - It made me jump a bit when I first refuelled New Yaris as diesel doesn't do this, but then I remembered petrol is *very* volatile and evaporates easily at even room temperature. What happens is as the fuel tank drains, it starts to pressurize a little with petrol fumes and when you open the fuel filler that hiss is just the pressurised petrol vapour being released like letting air out of a tyre.

 

 

[paulie b]

After travelling about 145 miles I had lost two bars on the fuel gauge, but it took £20 to fill! As it pertains to my own Aygo, it is always best to rely on the trip meter rather than the fuel gauge.

When I first got the thing it was registering as half full but took £40 of petrol!

While filling yesterday, the petrol pump nozzle 'clicked' once at about £18.50, I let the fuel settle then topped it up to the £20 mark. I hope that I've brimmed the thing this time so I can start to get some accurate fuel consumption figures of my own.

 

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Cheers for ALL the input to my thread guys!!

My next update...ok...so from a full tanker...currently done 100 miles...and dropped 2 notches...post the silencer repair i mentioned in my earlier update.

However, this morning, i took it down to the garage that my son works at, plugged in his very posh looking Snap On diagnostics, and it brought up the following:

C1237 - improper rotor tooth speed on one of the 4 wheels

P0420 - catalyst system efficiency below threshold bank 1

C0210 - R rear wheel speed sensor signal fault

C0215 - L rear wheel speed sensor signal fault

C0273 - open/short circuit in ABS motor relay circuit

To confirm my engine light has always been off since ownership in Jan 2018. He cleared all the above codes and checked my spark plugs which were each perfect...cleaned each coilpack with brake cleaner and shot air to dry...and finally a carb clean...wow...ive never seen so much white smoke...nearly choked.

The result after was the car drove so beautiful...more power on tap! However i doubt this would improve my fuel consumption. He asked me to return in 2 weeks for another FREE diagnostics...bless him.

So any ideas whats going on...those codes mean nothing to me but might to you experts?

 

[Planemo]

Well....aside from the multiple ABS issues which includes the C1237 fault (which are safety rather than fuel efficiency problems), its the o2 code which sticks out. I am not sure if the fault has triggered from the pre or post cat sensor but theres every chance its the post cat which would suggest the cat is goosed, and the post cat sensor is unhappy that its readings are too close to the pre cat sensor. This does not unfortunately mean that the cat is broken up/partially blocked, only that its efficiency is in question.

This is as far as 'plug in' diagnostics can take you. It needs a rolling road (to check power) or an emissions test (to check the cat efficiency) to get much further. I am surprised that your sons garage could not do an emissions test, assuming they carry out mot's.

'Bank 1' doesnt help either, as this is just a standardised ECU tag, becoming relevant when an engine has more than one bank such as a V6 or V8. Thus the sensors on our Aygos will only ever be Bank 1.

Carb cleaner will always generate lots of smoke as it removes the deposits off the intake system but truth be told it doesnt usually make much difference as the deposit buildup is a tiny fraction of the total sectional area of the intake system. Ultrasonic injector cleaning gives a far better response, but only if they have a poor spray pattern of course (which may be the problem in your case).

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

On 10/03/2018 at 6:55 PM, Planemo said:

Well....aside from the multiple ABS issues which includes the C1237 fault (which are safety rather than fuel efficiency problems), its the o2 code which sticks out. I am not sure if the fault has triggered from the pre or post cat sensor but theres every chance its the post cat which would suggest the cat is goosed, and the post cat sensor is unhappy that its readings are too close to the pre cat sensor. This does not unfortunately mean that the cat is broken up/partially blocked, only that its efficiency is in question.

This is as far as 'plug in' diagnostics can take you. It needs a rolling road (to check power) or an emissions test (to check the cat efficiency) to get much further. I am surprised that your sons garage could not do an emissions test, assuming they carry out mot's.

'Bank 1' doesnt help either, as this is just a standardised ECU tag, becoming relevant when an engine has more than one bank such as a V6 or V8. Thus the sensors on our Aygos will only ever be Bank 1.

Carb cleaner will always generate lots of smoke as it removes the deposits off the intake system but truth be told it doesnt usually make much difference as the deposit buildup is a tiny fraction of the total sectional area of the intake system. Ultrasonic injector cleaning gives a far better response, but only if they have a poor spray pattern of course (which may be the problem in your case).

Cherrs planemo, im unsure what my next move is im afraid, my other half is unwilling to fork out 70.00 an hour for a rolling road test, 2hrs = 140.00...which could buy us another cat.

By the way should i be worried about the ABS safety issue codes confirmed by the diagnostic test?

[Planemo]

I wouldnt overly worry, the only one I would be a bit concerned about is C0273. The others could be caused by normal events events such as wheelspinning in the snow or even jacking up the front wheels and driving them to check wheel bearings as I recently did. I take it your ABS light is not illuminated and the system appeared to work ok in the recent snow?

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

12 hours ago, Planemo said:

I wouldnt overly worry, the only one I would be a bit concerned about is C0273. The others could be caused by normal events events such as wheelspinning in the snow or even jacking up the front wheels and driving them to check wheel bearings as I recently did. I take it your ABS light is not illuminated and the system appeared to work ok in the recent snow?

Hi there...

That all makes sense, thank you, ive decided to leave things as they are, wait 2 weeks like the mechanic suggested, and do another diagnostic, then go from there.

 

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

On 12/03/2018 at 6:28 AM, Planemo said:

I wouldnt overly worry, the only one I would be a bit concerned about is C0273. The others could be caused by normal events events such as wheelspinning in the snow or even jacking up the front wheels and driving them to check wheel bearings as I recently did. I take it your ABS light is not illuminated and the system appeared to work ok in the recent snow?

Afternoon Planemo...quick one...slightly strong smell of petrol every now n again...upon start up and driving and switch off...could this be a sign of anything untoward?

[Planemo]

I have never had the faintest whiff of fuel in or around my car, and thats despite being in or under it on numerous occasions whilst it has been running static. Its a pretty closed system so you shouldnt smell anything. Modern cars run pressurised tanks - hence no vent and no smell - they only vent when you release the cap to fuel them up. Apart from petrol vapour being highly explosive, closed systems were brought in to comply with emissions (which people assume only applies to exhaust fumes). Try and trace it - just because theres no fluid under the car doesnt mean its all ok - petrol evaporates very quickly on a hot engine...

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Interesting...i thought the smell of petrol on any petrol powered car was normal to some extent...they burn petrol...hmmm.

[Cjohnston1982]

Maybe there is nothing wrong with the engine then but maybe a fuel leak somewhere....

[paulie b]

It looks like you aren't having much luck with your Aygo?! Mine's been spot on and really enjoy driving it. 

[scar]

On 04/03/2018 at 10:28 AM, paulie b said:

I hope you don't mind me asking, but which insurer have you used? Being a 55 year old who has been driving without incident since the age of 17, I was ripped off to the tune of £360 (the original quote was over £600) for my 12 plate fire by the AA! I know all the variables and opened a topic on it. I meet all the criteria for low insurance but was foolish enough not to shop round. A mistake I will not make next time!

Hi paulie b, sorry about the late reply. My daughter has just insured the Aygo, she's 31. 2 named drivers 63 and 68yrs old. 13 years NCB. SDP use £250 excess, 5k PA, with LV.

A extra 5% of as we have house insurance with them. Best quote was just under £200.

LV get excellent reviews, UK call centres. Saying that if you do it online its cheaper, the call centre told me that. So I did it online.

Good luck with your search.

[paulie b]

18 hours ago, scar said:

Hi paulie b, sorry about the late reply. My daughter has just insured the Aygo, she's 31. 2 named drivers 63 and 68yrs old. 13 years NCB. SDP use £250 excess, 5k PA, with LV.

A extra 5% of as we have house insurance with them. Best quote was just under £200.

LV get excellent reviews, UK call centres. Saying that if you do it online its cheaper, the call centre told me that. So I did it online.

Good luck with your search.

Thanks for that.

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

21 hours ago, Cjohnston1982 said:

Maybe there is nothing wrong with the engine then but maybe a fuel leak somewhere....

How would one test for leaks??

[Bike_loon]

Defo sounds like a leak. Could be a fuel hose or the tank itself.

 

I just got 191 miles out of £20 on my Aygo which is about 54mpg

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

On 18/03/2018 at 6:26 PM, Bike_loon said:

Defo sounds like a leak. Could be a fuel hose or the tank itself.

 

I just got 191 miles out of £20 on my Aygo which is about 54mpg

Lucky you my friend...ive given up trying to find a solution, and i will have to accept 225 miles approx on a full tank, i am awaiting another diagnostic in a weeks time though, my other half is adamant its due to my driving style and the fact that we have this big tte exhaust, who knows!

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Just to add guys...i am getting white smoke when i rev harder than normal...i tend to do this every now and again because things still feel a bit clogged up somewhere...hmmm

[Agent Orange]

Hi Sam,

White smoke is usually water mixing (Blue smoke is usually oil) and so have you checked the head gasket and coolant levels?  Are you using a lot of water/coolant?

If you have plenty of coolant and the right amount of oil in your Aygo, you could try the old "Italian Tune Up".....Get it on a motorway and run it above 4000 revs for a few miles.  I'm not a great fan of this as I think it could do more harm than good but many Folk swear by it.

I am with Planemo on this one as I think that any money spent on a full Dyno would be money well spent.

Sorry that I can't be of more help but good luck anyway.

All the best. 

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

4 hours ago, Agent Orange said:

Hi Sam,

White smoke is usually water mixing (Blue smoke is usually oil) and so have you checked the head gasket and coolant levels?  Are you using a lot of water/coolant?

If you have plenty of coolant and the right amount of oil in your Aygo, you could try the old "Italian Tune Up".....Get it on a motorway and run it above 4000 revs for a few miles.  I'm not a great fan of this as I think it could do more harm than good but many Folk swear by it.

I am with Planemo on this one as I think that any money spent on a full Dyno would be money well spent.

Sorry that I can't be of more help but good luck anyway.

All the best. 

Cheers for your input.

It only smokes a cloud if you rev it to 3-4k rpm...rolling in neutral for example lol...as i pass my crowd of on-lookers admiring my baby!

otherwise fluids are spot on.

Ill have to save up for this dyno i guess.

Is it normal for 3 cylinder engines to sound...ummm...jittery...like up and down...hard to decribe...so one has to rev a little to make it smoother...excuse me...i have a headache today.

 

 

[Bike_loon]

20 hours ago, SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS said:

Lucky you my friend...ive given up trying to find a solution, and i will have to accept 225 miles approx on a full tank, i am awaiting another diagnostic in a weeks time though, my other half is adamant its due to my driving style and the fact that we have this big tte exhaust, who knows!

Doubt it, mine has the same TTE exhaust remember ;) Plus I get 22mpg in the Porsche so I am not light footed lol

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

2 hours ago, Bike_loon said:

Doubt it, mine has the same TTE exhaust remember ;) Plus I get 22mpg in the Porsche so I am not light footed lol

Sweet back sides...least she gives you what you want...for miles n miles.

Im soon to drive mine off a cliff once im tired of filling her up all the time!

[Cyker]

I did find the Aygo engine a bit dieselly at low RPM; It's the only engine I've driven that got *smoother* at higher RPM! XD

White 'smoke', if it is wispy, is normal, esp. with more accelerator input, esp. in colder weather. It usually goes away once the engine warms up but if it's really cold it will continue - Just a fact of life with petrol engines I assume.

If the white smoke is quite thick... well I'm not sure what that would be - On my old car it would be a sign a ****load of diesel has somehow gotten into the exhaust and was burning into 'Airshow smoke' but I don't think that is a thing with petrol...

I'm a bit worried if you are smelling petrol *inside* the car - In some cases when a car is running rich, you can smell some petrol from the exhaust, but you shouldn't inside! Well, maybe a slight wiff when the car is starting at worst, or if you're reversing into your own exhaust right after starting the car, but certainly not a strong smell!

It might be worth checking in the engine to see if there is a slight fuel leak or something...!!


Also, I was thinking - If you don't need to drive anywhere that's going to penalize older diesels, you should try and find a Mk1 Yaris D4D and part-ex the Aygo for it - It's only a tiny bit bigger than an Aygo, but it has IMHO the best diesel engine Toyota have ever made in it and it is a BAZILLION times more fun to drive than an Aygo because it weighs nearly the same but has twice the torque, and from 1500rpm instead of 4000rpm! When you push the accelerator it just GOES, no matter what gear or speed you're doing! Overtaking *anything* with that car on the motorway was so much more pleasant than any petrol car I've ever driven.
I was regularly getting 64mpg from it, and often 70+ on longer journeys. Even when I was driving like I stole it I still got 55mpg out of it, which is more than I've been able to get from New Yaris (A 1.33VVTi petrol), even when driving it as disgusting inconsiderately economical as possible! Even the hybrids can't get close to that when driven similarly aggressively!
It doesn't have any of the emissions controls of the later ones, which makes it more powerful, more economical and more reliable than the later ones! (Not having a DPF or DMF are the biggest plus of the Mk1 D4D in that area!)
Literally the only downside of that car is its Euro 3 emissions so is probably going to get penalized by most city centres - I had to give mine up because of the London ULEZ (*sob* I miss it soo much... The Mk2 VVTi I have now is so mind bendingly gutless in comparison!)