safety system

[JacobRAV4]

Hi,

Today I had  a small accident.

I drove the car very slowly in a traffic jam, unfortunately for seconds my eyes were in my mobile phone and not on the road and i hit the back bumper of the car in front of me.

there was no warning alarm from the car.

also the car had not been stopped by the safety system.

I am sure it was at least supposed to warn me.

Was it also supposed to stop automatically ?

Can I really trust those safety systems ? 

Thank you

 

 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Toyota Safety Sense isn't a safety system, it is a driver's aid.

As far as I'm aware the pre collision system will operate at speeds above 10kph. Presumably as you say you were driving very slowly in a traffic queue, the speed may have been below the speed the pre collision system will operate, but as you were looking at your mobile, you probably cannot say what speed you were doing.

It would be safer not to use one's mobile whilst driving.

[daveh_rav4]

I hope their is a police officer reading this forum... you need points on your licence for 'driving without care and attention'!  You were relying on the cars digital dross to drive your car for you while you illegally played with your phone when you should have been in control of the car.  Next time you may kill someone; I just hope my children or me are not on the same stretch of road, d'oh!

[JacobRAV4]

thank you for the replies.

and I am really apologize. I know I wa a fool and won't do that again.

And I will also add mobileye, just because that the Toyota system didn't even beep. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Think before you add Mobileye - presumably Shield+ - check with the manufacturer at what speeds the system operates. If, similar to Toyota Safety Sense, Shield+ operates above a specified minimum speed, you will be no better off.

[daveh_rav4]

OK, perhaps I was a bit strong with my post... but as an ex crash recovery mehcanic I have seen the results of a drivers momentary loss of attention.  Please don't rely on digital circuits to maintain  your or other peoples safety.

[alan333]

You wouldn't believe how many drivers are using their phones in traffic queues.  I drive high trucks so can easily see into cars beside me, and I guess about 1 in maybe 8 drivers are guilty.

[daveh_rav4]

Your probably right Alan... it's frightening.  I still have pictures in my mind of that recent crash caught on a dash cam of a truck driver on his mobile phone driving down a motorway at some speed; he looked up from his phone only to find a split second later he plows into the back of a car in front and killing several people... horrific!  I appreciate that this is not a directly related case to our friends lack of attention here, but digital devices in a moving vehicle can affect and detract from a drivers attention who should be in charge of his vehicle and our and his safety. 

Surely it is not beyond the whit of car and smart phone device manufactuers to have a digital system that automatically switches phones 'off' once the vehicle starts moving?  Personally I would not allow any digital device to take full or even parcial control of a vehicle while in motion... it breeds complacency with drivers who then come to depend on the digital control... until it goes wrong and then it is too late to avoid carnage.  Gawd help us all when fully autonimus vehicles are allowed on our roads... I don't remember a referendum being held asking drivers if they want this to happen... but I do seem to see on a regular basis news reports of these autonimus vehicles that are being tested constantly being involved in accidents!  If I get the chance to vote on such a system being introduced you can guess where my vote will be, and that does not even take into account the mass unemployment it will greate.

I am now going for a cold shower... (with a non digital shower control)

[alan333]

1 hour ago, daveh_rav4 said:

Surely it is not beyond the whit of car and smart phone device manufactuers to have a digital system that automatically switches phones 'off' once the vehicle starts moving?  

Gawd help us all when fully autonimus vehicles are allowed on our roads... I don't remember a referendum being held asking drivers if they want this to happen... but I do seem to see on a regular basis news reports of these autonimus vehicles that are being tested constantly being involved in accidents!  If I get the chance to vote on such a system being introduced you can guess where my vote will be, and that does not even take into account the mass unemployment it will greate.

I don't see how automatic disabling of  mobiles in a moving car can work.  What about passengers etc?  I do think the modern phone screen mirroring onto a touch screen in a car is a bad bad baaaad idea tho - actively encouraging people to reply to texts etc using a built in screen - what are they thinking???.  Actually full touch screens (particularly the ones which control the heater etc) are a bad idea too - you need to watch the screen to see where you're pressing rather than good old feeling the relevant knob and rotating it a bit.  The commander knob style of Mazda, Merc etc is much better.

Re automated vehicles - is refusing to buy one the way to vote?  The manufacturers won't be long in listening to their sales numbers.

[crofter]

Lets be brutally honest for a minute, apart from the emergency services, who can really justify  that their  not being reachable 24/7 is so critically necessary that common sense, safety wise, flies out of the window. I would even go so far to suggest that most of it is just idle gossip  for the sake of it. Driving today is demanding enough without voluntary distraction. In the case of an accident it costs everyone by increased insurance premiums, unfortunately some not monetary. Human nature being what it is means it will never change. Everyone makes mistakes we can only try and make sure that we are the ones to pay for it and is  not life changing. Not preaching, just the way I feel 

                                                                                                                                                                                      

 

[philip42h]

The OP freely admits that he was a bit of a numpty (my words) and expressed 'surprise' that the Toyota Safety Sense system didn't help him at all. I have sympathy for that, and, from what I have seen of the advertising, would also have expected a Toyota Safety Sense safety system to have prevented such an incident. Oh well, forewarned is forearmed - Toyota Safety Sense: the system that lets you have low speed collisions ... I don't supposed the marketing guys would sanction that slogan! 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Then again Toyota make no secret of the fact that the pre-collision system only operates above a specified speed - in this case 10kph. 

Quote from Toyota UK blog - "PCS operates at between about 10 and 80km/h, speeds within which at least 80 per cent of rear-end collisions happen. Vehicles fitted with a millimetre-wave radar benefit additionally from Adaptive Cruise Control (see below) and an enhanced PCS. Here, PCS operates over an extended relative speed range, from 10km/h to the vehicle’s top speed, and can achieve a greater reduction in speed with its automatic braking – about 40km/h. The system is able to detect potential collisions with pedestrians (in such cases the automated braking operates at relatives speeds of between 10 and 80km/h and can reduce speed by about 30km/h)."

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/toyota-safety-sense-a-new-level-of-active-safety-for-the-toyota-range

[JacobRAV4]

I Think that Toyota should make it very clear for all the drivers.

Before i bought this RAV I considered Mithubishi  something and they told me that their system stop the car even in very  low speed.

So , there is really room for confusion.

My even bigger concern is that the car did not even beep ! 

I made my decision - I will install Mobileye. I am not saving money here.

No doubt that I behaved like a fool.  I am nit going to touch the phone anymore while driving. 

[daveh_rav4]

I repeat... these systems breed complancancy; if a driver thinks an automated system is saving his **** he won't bother to pay attention to his driving.  Even if these systems work 'most of the time', IMO they are dangerous. What if that had been a five year old child in the road instead of just another car infront; even at speeds, below 10mph a two ton vehicle could kill!  I have been driving for fifty years, most every day of my life... my eyes send signals to my brain, my brain interprets the situation and any possible hazard, it then sends signals to my braking and throttle foot, plus my hands to steer.  This is not rocket science... it's more complicated than that, it's called a human driving a vehicle.  It's what humans 'do', why turn it over to a computer... we are not short of humans on this planet to drive vehicles.  The only reasons that these systems are being developed is for commercial profit; we should all resist it!  Luddites must prevail here! 

Aghhhh, that's better...

[FROSTYBALLS]

2 hours ago, JacobRAV4 said:

Before i bought this RAV I considered Mithubishi  something and they told me that their system stop the car even in very  low speed.

So , there is really room for confusion.

My even bigger concern is that the car did not even beep ! 

The Toyota system operates from 10kph which equates to 6.21mph, and in most people's view would also be a very low speed.

If the speed was below the minimum threshold for the pre-collision system to operate, you wouldn't hear a beep because the system wouldn't have been triggered.

The only room for confusion, would be, I suggest, if one didn't acquaint oneself with the vehicle systems, by reading the owners manual(s). Either the abbreviated one that was supplied with the vehicle or the full owners manual that one can download.

Before installing Mobileye, have you, as I suggested, checked whether their system has a minimum speed. If it does, it may not be too different to TSS.