Will Toyota offer an Aygo crossover

[FROSTYBALLS]

Other manufacturers offer crossover style versions of their city cars. Ford have just introduced the Ka+ Active, Kia have the Picanto X-Line, PSA have the Vauxhall/Opel Viva Rocks, etc.  

They all have features such as raised ride heights, SUV style body mouldings, roof rails, etc. Eg - The Ka+ Active -

Will Toyota be offering something similar with the Aygo?

[Heidfirst]

I suspect that we would have to wait for the next generation Aygo to find out. Which brings up the question of whether there will be a next generation Aygo? With PSA having bought Opel/Vauxhall they may no longer need Toyota to get the build volumes necessary on a small car to make it profitable/worthwhile. & without the PSA volumes would it be worth Toyota going it alone?

On the other hand if you think that the next gen would probably be ~2019 you would expect  that most of the planning/engineering was probably very well advanced already so maybe that is a question for the generation after.

[Plob]

'Cos every city car needs an "urbanized" version!?!

[Mike J.]

13 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Will Toyota be offering something similar with the Aygo?

Go with their strengths - a crossover Aygo will have the space for batteries, so my guess would be a hybrid version with a 3 cylinder Atkinson engine and 100 mpg

[FROSTYBALLS]

Doubt whether the Aygo will be due for replacement any time soon.

What Ford, Kia, etc have done to creat their city car crossovers, is to make minmal mechanical changes, aside from raised suspension, etc, and redress the body with add-ons. So major changes like including a hybrid drivetrain and given the low profit margins on this class of car,  probably aren't on the cards. For example VAG is actively monitoring the sales of the Up/Mio/Citigo very carefully as profits on these are so low.

The Vauxhall Viva/Opel Karl - a version of the Chevrolet Sparks - is built by GM Korea so with the PSA takeover of GM Europe, may be in a weaker position as regards continuity in Europe than the Aygo/C1/108. Plus with PSA's current links with Toyota (city cars and light commercials), I would think these are probably safe.

[Cyker]

Is that what Crossover means now? Just a Fat version of the original car??

I don't know who buys these things! Or so many!

I just want a small 3.5m-ish long car that can hold a lot of stuff, has good range (At least 300 miles on one charge at 70mph for electric, 600miles on 35L for fossil fuels) and shedloads of torque at all speeds! And a collimated digital dash. And a slide and tilt sunroof. Also aircon. Sliding folding rear seats. Lots of gloveboxes and other closable storage bins. 5 doors and 5 seats. Maybe a flamethrower. Or a catapult for firing copies of the highway code at other people! Oooh oooh, how about 2 buttons that are linked to light-up signs at the back (One says "Thank you!!" and the other says "Drop dead!!"). The buttons have to be different shapes so you don't press the wrong one...

 

[Puglet]

Interesting question, one thing those cars have in common is aren't they all only offered as 5 door cars, where as Aygo has 3 door option to gain more sales, so they need another 'style' of their cars to sell. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

Is that what Crossover means now? Just a Fat version of the original car??

No - Nissan did the original crossover with the Qashqai, which replaced both the Almera and the Primera and 'crossed over' the two market sectors.

However, for the city car and supermini market sectors, manufacturers have adapted existing models (raised suspension, body mouldings, roof rails, etc) to give a crossover/SUV type appearance. Eg: Dacia Stepway; Hyundai i20 Active; 

[Heidfirst]

3 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

No - Nissan did the original crossover with the Qashqai, which replaced both the Almera and the Primera and 'crossed over' the two market sectors.

my understanding is that the term "crossover" re. cars refers to "crossing over" (i.e. a middle ground) between cars & SUVs rather than between market sectors by size (e.g. C, D etc.).

This is interesting https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/seat-leon-x-perience-axed-uk-due-low-demand as it suggests that simply raising the suspension & adding a few bits of body moulding isn't appealing to the market anymore.

[FROSTYBALLS]

The Leon X-perience has been dropped in the UK, not necessarily in other markets. Seat have two relatively new 'proper' SUV's which buyers will probably choose over the leon.

[Cyker]

Ha! That's funny since an SUV was originally a crossover between a 4x4 and a normal car! I thought Crossover was just another term for SUV until they started making crossovers of the crossovers 

What do you think they will do a crossover of next? Ups/Aygos and mopeds perhaps? Although I suppose those kindof exist already with things like the Twizzy and the Carver... Maybe the Bond Bug will make a comeback! 

 

[Heidfirst]

11 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

The Leon X-perience has been dropped in the UK, not necessarily in other markets.

Yes, but if you read the article it's not just the Leon X-perience that has seen declining sales but similar "ruggedised" versions of other models too e.g. VW Golf Alltrack & Skoda Octavia Scout (& going up a class or too I seem to recall Volvos & Audis too).

Seat have two relatively new 'proper' SUV's which buyers will probably choose over the leon.

Which again would illustrate that simply raising the ride height & adding a few bits of body moulding to an existing conventional car isn't enough for the market v a model designed from the outset to fill that market desire. There does seem confusion as to what constitutes the dividing line between a crossover & an SUV - depending upon who you listen to/read the Arona is a crossover & the Ateca is an SUV (although I have also seen that described by motoring press as a crossover). 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Most manufacturers are bringing out new crossovers or SUV's to take advantage of the expanding market - which is going to affect the models which were introduced as ruggedised alternatives. At the end of the day, hatchbacks, saloons or estates aren't going to have the same characteristics of crossovers and SUV's.

Skoda have the Karoq and Kodiak. VW have the T-Roc, Tiguan and Tiguan Allspace. Hyundai have the Kona, Tucson, and Santa Fe. Etc

The demand for crossovers/SUV's is why the top end manufacturers are going this way as well - Bentley (where the Bentayga now accounts for more than 50% of their sales), Lamborghini, Rolls Royce, etc.

Having said all that, because of the limited profits on cars in the city class (Aygo, etc), it makes more sense for manufacturers to offer the stylised crossovers/SUV's in this sector rather than designing true crossovers/SUV's. The exceptions in the UK are the Fiat Panda and the Suzuki Ignis.

 

[Mike J.]

17 hours ago, Cyker said:

Is that what Crossover means now? Just a Fat version of the original car??

I don't know who buys these things! Or so many!

Look to the demographics and who has money - basically the 'baby boomers' most of whom want easier (step in) access and so they now choose these cars.

[mickburkesnr]

I remember when Rover came out with the Streetwise, which was an urbanised Rover 25 and people were laughing at it.

10 years later, the world + dog wants a normal car with higher suspension looking like a baby jeep.

I hope they don't ruin the Aygo by doing the same. It'd look silly and lose the small dimensions which make it a fun car.

[Parts-King]

On 2/7/2018 at 8:28 AM, Heidfirst said:

 Toyota to get the build volumes necessary on a small car to make it profitable/worthwhile. & without the PSA volumes would it be worth Toyota going it alone?

 

It's the other way round, Toyota need PSA to build small cars for them as they have never been able to build sufficient small volume cars at the right price. I don't know how long the contract is for with PSA but I expect more of those collaborations in the future. With the way things are, I'm not sure we will see a Hybrid Aygo but you never know

Kingo

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

When Toyota bought the remainder of Daihatsu in 2016 to become sole owners, they did say they would use Daihatsu's expertise in small cars to strengthen their offerings in this sector.

[Plob]

Have you seen the new Alfa advert...

"SUV's are rubbish, here's the new Alfa SUV, it's ace!"

[Cyker]

On Friday February 09, 2018 at 10:12 PM, FROSTYBALLS said:

When Toyota bought the remainder of Daihatsu in 2016 to become sole owners, they did say they would use Daihatsu's expertise in small cars to strengthen their offerings in this sector.

God I hope so, at their current rate of progression the Mk4 Yaris will be bigger than the current Auris!! 
 

[FROSTYBALLS]

9 hours ago, Cyker said:

God I hope so, at their current rate of progression the Mk4 Yaris will be bigger than the current Auris!! 
 

This has been the trend amongst car manufacturers for some time. Look at VW and Ford: the new Polo has again gone up in size and now offers more interior space, a larger boot than the Mk4 Golf and is just 9mm narrower than the first generation Auris; the Ka+ is virtually the same size as the 2009 Fiesta; etc.

[Puglet]

Agree, my sister bought a Peugeot 108 (1.0 engine of course!) last year to replace a Ford Fiesta Mk3 she owned for nearly 28 years, unfortunately a new Fiesta was not an option, it just to darn big to fit in her garage! Same for their Ka+, initial excitement when I heard it was coming out last year, but soon discounted it when I saw its size.

 

[Cyker]

2 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

This has been the trend amongst car manufacturers for some time. Look at VW and Ford: the new Polo has again gone up in size and now offers more interior space, a larger boot than the Mk4 Golf and is just 9mm narrower than the first generation Auris; the Ka+ is virtually the same size as the 2009 Fiesta; etc.

I know, right?! And it is daft! They keep having to introduce new 'small' cars because their small cars keep getting bigger than their big cars! Good examples with VW and Ford there - It is hilarious when you put a modern Polo next to an early Golf! 

With the Aygo now as big as the original Mk1 Yaris, the RAV4 now bigger than a Land Cruiser, the Auris taking over the Avensis slot while the Avensis looks to be getting the boot, so now they have made the CR-H to effectively take the segment the RAV4 previously took, the Yaris will take over the Corolla/Auris segment and the Aygo will take the Yaris segment and then they will have to think up a new car to take over the Aygo segment! 

 

[Heidfirst]

On 09/02/2018 at 8:58 AM, Parts-King said:

It's the other way round, Toyota need PSA to build small cars for them as they have never been able to build sufficient small volume cars at the right price.

That's precisely what I was getting at ... PSA+Opel/Vauxhall wouldn't need Toyota to make up the volumes to a viable level but Toyota on it's own wouldn't have enough demand to engineer/manufacture it's own standalone model & sell profitably.

[Parts-King]

11 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

That's precisely what I was getting at ... PSA+Opel/Vauxhall wouldn't need Toyota to make up the volumes to a viable level but Toyota on it's own wouldn't have enough demand to engineer/manufacture it's own standalone model & sell profitably.