Timing Chain Rattle Mk1 Yaris

[topgazza]

My wifes excellent mid 2005 Mk 1Cloud Collection has developed a slight rattle on first turnover.Its not seriously bad but before I dive into getting the chain & tensioners replaced by the garage I thought I'd ask if it could just be the tensioners that are worn making the chain a little loose. The car has only done 85k and is still running fine.

Also the suspension bushes are deteriated but still OK at last MOT.Is it worth getting them changed ?

[Cyker]

Can just be the tensioner - I remember someone here saying it uses oil pressure to work and the seals can deteriorate over time.The chain-cam Toyota engines definitely benefit from regular good quality oil changes!

re. the suspension bushes, if you mean the anti-roll bar drop links, they have a history of being a fairly common MOT advisory for the Mk1 Yaris - For some reason the outside of the bushes appears to deteriorate really quickly, but unless you are getting a clonk sound when going over speed bumps/potholes/etc. then they are still working fine and you don't need to change them.

(I ignored the MOT advisory 3 years running before it annoyed me enough to swap them for polyurethane ones; Not much more expensive than the Toyota ones but basically indestructible!)

 

[topgazza]

Thanks Cyker. My wife has been looking for over a year for a replacement, 18 month old , car. Nothing she really likes out there which is a shame.So thinking that the Yaris, which is worth no more than £2k, would be worth spending a few bob on to keep it safe as it runs well and still rides well and its engine is just as nippy as its ever been.It could go on for years quite easily

[Madasafish]

The timing chain on the Mark1 is tensioned by oil pressure,The fact yours ONLY rattles on startup suggests a slow build up in oil pressure. The usual causes are wear or wrong oil or wrong oil filter.

 

Wear can be chain, or tensioner. The guides tend to not wear. Or worn oil pump or engine bearing (unlikely except with gross abuse)

 

So are you using a good semi/fully synthetic 5W-30 oil? And a Toyota branded oil filter?  If no to either, change them and see. 

And when was the oil last changed?   Annual or every 10k miles is a must on an older car...

 

[topgazza]

Good quality oil and filter. Oil was changed at last service last June. Its such a good car in perfect condition and very nippy but lacks the comfort of more modern verions or cars but it still does a great job and looks better than many newer cars so I dont mind spending a bit on it even though its not worth more than £1800. Sometimes the value in a car is its reliability. Why spend £10k when you can spend a few hundred on keeping the old one going.

[Cyker]

Yeah, can't say I blame your missus - My Mk1 was easily the best car I've ever owned, ever! Had to change to a Mk2 because of this U-turn on diesels (KHAAAAAAAAN! ) and it's okay but... I just don't like it as much...

Where the Mk1 was *perfect*, the Mk2 has lots of little annoyances, like the cup holders are in the wrong place (They're all by my right hand instead of the left - I use my right hand for steering!), the storage bins are smaller, I can't see the dash clearly with the sun behind me because the tunnel isn't as deep as it was on the Mk1, the visibility is somehow worse than in the Mk1 (Esp. A-pillars and rear!) etc.

I'm also missing having a sunroof because I can't cure wind buffeting from the side windows by opening it like I used to!

It's all little whingey trivial stuff, but it just makes me miss my Mk1!

 

[Madasafish]

A "good quality" filter may not be good enough if it does not have an anti return valve to prevent oil draining out into the sump when the engine is switched off. When you come to restart, the oil pump has to refill the filter before there is any noticeable oil pressure- especially high on the head where the oil tensioner is mounted. I ALWAYS use a genuine Toyota oil filter...the extra cost = peace of mind...

[topgazza]

I'll have a look underneath tomorrow. I normally get it serviced at an Indy who only uses Toyota parts but last June i used a local garage  as I had a half price MOT voucher. So I'm not sure what they fitted. If its not a Toyota one I'll fit one and replace the oil while I'm at it. Bosch would be a good filter to fit ? I assume  the quality ones all have the "non return" valve for that model ? Surely Toyota branded filters aren't the only ones ? Could you recommend a good source other than Toyota themselves if thats recommended ?

[topgazza]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

Yeah, can't say I blame your missus - My Mk1 was easily the best car I've ever owned, ever! Had to change to a Mk2 because of this U-turn on diesels (KHAAAAAAAAN! ) and it's okay but... I just don't like it as much...

Where the Mk1 was *perfect*, the Mk2 has lots of little annoyances, like the cup holders are in the wrong place (They're all by my right hand instead of the left - I use my right hand for steering!), the storage bins are smaller, I can't see the dash clearly with the sun behind me because the tunnel isn't as deep as it was on the Mk1, the visibility is somehow worse than in the Mk1 (Esp. A-pillars and rear!) etc.

I'm also missing having a sunroof because I can't cure wind buffeting from the side windows by opening it like I used to!

It's all little whingey trivial stuff, but it just makes me miss my Mk1!

 

 

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I think she would miss the wonderful digital display more than anything Cyker. But yes, as a car it was perfect...is perfect. Shame they messed about so much but I guess that inevitable. I drive a Mk7 Golf GT Tsi DSG which is so smooth,fast and well built it should be illegal and I have no problem with getting in the Yaris to go to the shops etc. Its not as solid and smooth to drive of course but it is nearly 13 years old and half the price new but its a fine car. Really reluctant to get rid of it but there comes a time when you have to.Although we're not going to rush and even if something goes wrong we will spend a fair amount to fix it as I say

 

 

 

 

[Cyker]

Ah, yes, I too love the digital display!

Actually if she has a petrol Mk1, changing to a Mk2 could be good potential upgrade path - The 2009-and-older ones keep the digital dash, and the inside is nicer than the Mk1. It also has a higher quality feel - The doors have a much more satisfying weight and closing-clunk than the paper-light Mk1 doors (Esp. the rear doors!)! The later 1.33VVTi engine is also more powerful and cheaper to tax than the earlier 1.3VVTi's

Tyres are more expensive tho' on those 15" rims! (If anyone has any 14" steel rims they don't want I'll be interested!! ;))
 

[topgazza]

I wondered why the doors and the hatch door sound like two tin cans in a bucket when you close them. Lack of soundproofing and sound deadening combined with thin doors is just not good enough.

I'll check what filter I have in the morning

[Cyker]

 

Heh, yeah, the feel of the doors of the Mk1 do not inspire confidence for side collisions!

It used to be a no-brainer to get a Toyota oil filter and sump plug gasket - They'd give you 5L of 5w30 oil for free as part of a 'service kit'! 

They seem to have stopped doing it at some point tho' - Last time I bought them all I had to pay for the oil!

 

[topgazza]

Sure enough I have some obscure make of filter. Even though its having its next annual in June at my usual Indy who does use OEM parts only I may well change the filter and oil early to make sure the timing chain is protected

[topgazza]

Cant find the filter anywahere on the Toyota website or even the right OEM part number......