E11 1.6 warm up issue

[Lola 11]

Hi all, i could really do with some help diagnosing a winter time problem.  

My e11 1.6 3zz engine has this strange behaviour when its cold..say below 5c. 

- Starts fine

- Idles at 2000 rpm for aprox 1 min

- Slowly drops to 600 rpm to a point where its struggling to stay alive

- It stays at this low point until it has warmed slightly and then resumes normal warm up rpm (1600) until fully warm. 

O2 sensor is operating correctly.  The idle control valve has been swapped / cleaned and seems to operate normally ie with A/c and everyday driving.  I can not detect any vacuum leaks. Spark plugs are new and the car is well maintained. 80000 miles 

I think the key to this issue is understanding why it resumes normal warm up after the engine temp has started to move from its lowest point. 

I have no engine lights on.  Another (maybe related) issue is that it idles low at 600 when warm.  

Any suggestions on where i should check next would be most appreciated as I've hit a brick wall with it.  

Thanks guys 

[oldcodger]

Hi,

Dropping to 600rpm and nearly stopping almost sounds like its going into Learning Mode which happens when the Battery has been disconnected.

Typically if you set off driving and when taking your foot off the pedal then rpms drop really low almost stopping but smooth out as it warms up so after 10 -15 mins the ecu has re-learnt.  Is your Battery /charging ok ?

Yours seems to quickly recover so perhaps not the same problem ..?

It does also sound a bit like a faulty sensor being affected by the cold  and them warm up temperatures.

You might get some info by using a OBD2 scanner with a graphic  display that you can view live data on.

I've got one of the cheapy D900 scanners and it does show live data, though a long time since I plugged it in.

More expensive models do more like ABS error code.

 

 

 

 

[kimba]

Hi all, i could really do with some help diagnosing a winter time problem.  
My e11 1.6 3zz engine has this strange behaviour when its cold..say below 5c. 
- Starts fine
- Idles at 2000 rpm for aprox 1 min
- Slowly drops to 600 rpm to a point where its struggling to stay alive
- It stays at this low point until it has warmed slightly and then resumes normal warm up rpm (1600) until fully warm. 
O2 sensor is operating correctly.  The idle control valve has been swapped / cleaned and seems to operate normally ie with A/c and everyday driving.  I can not detect any vacuum leaks. Spark plugs are new and the car is well maintained. 80000 miles 
I think the key to this issue is understanding why it resumes normal warm up after the engine temp has started to move from its lowest point. 
I have no engine lights on.  Another (maybe related) issue is that it idles low at 600 when warm.  
Any suggestions on where i should check next would be most appreciated as I've hit a brick wall with it.  
Thanks guys 

Does your car have a crankshaft position sensor? A friend of mine was having similar problems and that was the cause of it.

Sent from my LG-LS777 using Tapatalk

[Lola 11]

Hey, thanks for the replies

@oldcodger

I have a OBD 2 bluetooth scanner which i pair with my smart phone, its what lead me to changing the o2 sensor as it seemed 'lazy'.  The Battery (according to the scanner) is around 14v with the engine on, so i think its ok unless i should be checking another way?

Temperature sensor seems rise normally according to the scanner but i have no way of knowing if its spot on.  

@kimba

Yes i believe it does have a crankshaft sensor.  Would you happen to know to test it?  Its strange that i dont get any engine lights, i suppose its not bad enough to trigger anything.  

Reading another forum where it was suggested that the fuel pump could be struggling, but i dont think this is the case as performance is fine and i would expect other symptoms. 

 

[Gerg]

This  is not a perfect fit as a a problem description, but here it is anyway:-

 

[Lola 11]

Hi Gerg, this is the same issue by the looks of it.  I have replaced the idle control valve with a second hand unit which behaved in exactly the same way.  Maybe ive been unlucky and just got two duff ones. 

I think the low warm engine idle speed must be connected.  

[Gerg]

It was really useful to pinpoint my faulty valve with freezer spray, not least because I had some in the garage (from work).

I've just looked at the price of freezer spray, it's a bit steep.  I wonder if this stuff might cool enough to do the same?  It would leave a film of oil everywhere though.

https://www.carparts4less.co.uk/cp4l/p/-/-/-/-/?NOR28944421&0&cc5_858&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsYKjt_iy2QIVUhbTCh0HogSOEAQYBCABEgLgufD_BwE

It's almost certainly available from Eurocarparts at a similar price.

Otherwise it's something like this for twice the price:-

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Pipe-Freezing-Spray---240g/p/424922

Mine was posting an error code on every full warm-up cycle, but once the code was cleared this would not return until the engine had cooled down and been restarted.

Hopefully this isn't taking you up the wrong path...........

[Gerg]

Looking at this another way, perhaps you could heat the idle control valve with a hair dryer when the engine is cold, and then see if the problem doesn't occur if the valve is thoroughly hot.

On a different tack, what about a gummed-up PCV valve?  It is easy to access and remove (to clean), perhaps as it warms up its sprung loaded valve begins to operate as it should?

[Lola 11]

Hey guys thanks for all the posts, I have managed to get it working!  Yay

I cant tell you for sure which of the below cured it but i suspect it was number 1.

1. I swapped out the intake manifold and throttle body gaskets.  This was a cheap fix. 

2. I noticed the paint marking on the throttle body adjustment screw didn't line up. I checked the throttle body position reading (using a scan tool) against the spare i had from replacing the idle valve and found it to be out.  Mine was 11.6 and the spare was 10.2.  I adjusted mine to match.  I also turned the max cold idle down by rotating the idle valve motor anti clockwise slightly. 

It now starts with the outside temp at 0c and holds revs at 1600 until warm. 

I recon it was the gasket allowing extra air in untill it started to warm and expand thus sealing the gap. 

[mickburkesnr]

I'm late to the party on this one, but my 1.3 Corolla had similar problems in the cold, and it turned out to be a broken thermostat.

Just something to consider for the next chap who Google's this issue and has tried everything!