Service plan. Do your sums!

[mrpj]

My car was at the dealers yesterday, for a full service, i.e. it's fourth. Silly prices but they do now include a brake fluid and pollen filter change, which used to be separate items.

They offered me a service plan for the next three, this inludes two intermediate and one full, for the princely sum of £535. However, there are exclusions which include the brake fluid change and pollen filter change - charged extra if required/requested.

Now here's the bit where research and arithmetic is needed. They seem to foget that my car will be eligible for the "Essential" services at five years old +. These are £110 and £190 for the intermediate and full respectively. These do not include the brake fluid and pollen filter but do look to include just about everything else. So adding up they would total £410.  Get my drift?

They  really must think customers are that gullible!

They did try the "upsell" too when I originally phoned to book the service. Their website lists an aircon re-gas at £45 or that plus "sanitise" for £89! (a £5 aerosol) I requested just the re-gas plus M.O.T. What would they do all three for? "We no longer do the re-gas without the sanitise service. " The excuse for not offering just a re-gas, "Oh, the price of gas has recently doubled."

So they just got the service. Nearby garage re-gas £40 while I waited and witnessed the operation. Sanitise - did it myself with said £5 aerosol. M.O.T., same as they quoted but local, while I waited.

[Heidfirst]

Service plans can vary by dealer - with mine it is an absolute no-brainer but I am aware that is not the case everywhere.

The latest cars have switched to a different refrigerant gas & it is a lot dearer than the old. However, if they won't do just a re-gas then they shouldn't be advertising  it/a price for it (you coud get Trading Standards involved if you wish).

[Mooly]

I agree you have to do your homework. I just booked my Auris in today for service, MOT and aircon regas. I had compared the 'Full +' service at £395 with the 'Gold' service for older cars costing £200 for the Auris. What is odd is that the Gold gets replacement air filter and a brake fluid change whereas the expensive Full + does not. The brake fluid change is noted as every two years on the Full + and with just an inspection of the filter.

This is my first service outside a service plan which expired last year. I had 7 services that included MOT's and brake fluid changes for £15.15 per month (actually less because that is the price before VAT increased).

What irked a little last time was that a new pollen filter was recommended. I had it fitted and was charged not just for the part but for (presumably) 15 minutes labour as well. Seeing as inspection of the part is included... so its in someone's hand already, then charging another £15 or £20 or whatever it was to replace it with a new one seems a bit off imo. Splitting hairs maybe but it certainly didn't feel good at the time.

 

 

[mrpj]

In fact I should have researched further! The "Gold Essential Service" does include a brake fluid change, as you have stated Mooly.

Yes, re the refrigerant gas, but mine isn't "latest cars", it has  R134a. Many aircon re-gas services do now state R134a only for their quoted prices. Nowhere else seems to be affected by the alleged R134a doubling in price.

I was asked "Where have you seen the re-gas only for £45?" Erm - "On your website." They did concede, yesterday, that their "service advisor" got it wrong.

At least they have stopped trying to upsell a "snake oil" engine and fuel system flush.

My driver's airbag was changed too (the Takata factor) - so no bad thing.

I posted only with the intention of warning about the need to do some research and arithmetic first prior to agreeing to anything like a service plan.

I was offered a service plan when I purchased the car and subsequently wished I had taken it up. The fixed prices increased not that long afterwards and I would have saved a fair amount.

[Mick F]

We had a Clio from brand new in April 2001 and had it for over sixteen years.  Sold in September 2017.

1.6 16v with all the extras including air con.  In the 100,000miles or so that we had it, the air con was NEVER switched off.

Never had or needed a re-gas ...............  and the air con worked perfectly for the whole 16years and 100,000miles.  Changed the pollen filter three times DIY.

Mick.

[monkeydave]

they really do like to upsell as they tried to get me to put petrol treatment in for £30 on a 6500 mile engine on its first service (maybe because of the carbon problems some others on here are having with replacement pistons)

[Mike J.]

2 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

The latest cars have switched to a different refrigerant gas & it is a lot dearer than the old. 

It is also far more flammable - so much so that Mercedes tried to stop it being used. Similar things happened to our fridges and freezers at the behest of Greenpeace - they now use hydrocarbons as the refrigerant (Greenpeace designed - unbelievable) and so can explode and/or burn your house (or flats) down. I will try and stick to my 1995 vintage fridge and freezer because of this greenwash.

[FROSTYBALLS]

As regards fridges and freezers, the main issue regarding fires is with those that have plastic rather than metal backs - the ones with plastic rear panels being more susceptible to fires.

[Mike J.]

1 hour ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

As regards fridges and freezers, the main issue regarding fires is with those that have plastic rather than metal backs - the ones with plastic rear panels being more susceptible to fires.

Exploding fridges are almost certainly due to hydrocarbon leaks. The fires are probably caused by faulty electrics - mix in a container of flammable gas and you have a dangerous combination. Note, you will probably find the foams are blown with the same hydrocarbon (pentane). HFO-1234yf is what is now in new cars - read what Mercedes found out about the dangers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,3,3,3-Tetrafluoropropene

[FROSTYBALLS]

18 minutes ago, Mike J. said:

Exploding fridges are almost certainly due to hydrocarbon leaks. The fires are probably caused by faulty electrics - mix in a container of flammable gas and you have a dangerous combination. Note, you will probably find the foams are blown with the same hydrocarbon (pentane). HFO-1234yf is what is now in new cars - read what Mercedes found out about the dangers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,3,3,3-Tetrafluoropropene

 

2 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

As regards fridges and freezers, the main issue regarding fires is with those that have plastic rather than metal backs - the ones with plastic rear panels being more susceptible to fires.

I didn't comment on the cause of fridge and freezer fires. My comment stated that those with plastic rear panels are more susceptible to fire, which is a fact supported by the various Fire Services and by Which?

[YarisHybrid2016]

The whole "green" argument is absolutely absurd. Just because they got slapped in the face over the non-issue CFCs turned out to be after the last time they claimed refrigerant was so harmful, you'd think they would learn...

[mrpj]

17 hours ago, Mick F said:

the air con was NEVER switched off.

Neither is mine. Climate control on auto set to 20degC.

I forget the exact figures but my a/c, in four years from new, had lost about 70g of gas. From the 360g specified on the label under the bonnet to about 290g (296g I think removed by their machine). So my Yaris a/c system is possibly inferior with regards leaks to a Clio's. Or maybe Toyota tried to save a few quid and only fill with 300g at the factory.

Sorry Mick, but how do you know it never needed/lost gas. It could very well have leaked some but not to the point that the low gas pressure switch prevented it running. It's a known fact that all vehicle a/c systems lose gas over time? In fact refrigeration/aircon installations (marine) I've exprienced/worked on were never completely gastight - it's impossible.  Even when it's always on.

[Mike J.]

10 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

I didn't comment on the cause of fridge and freezer fires. My comment stated that those with plastic rear panels are more susceptible to fire, which is a fact supported by the various Fire Services and by Which?

And I am trying to point out that the new refrigerants (and foam propellants) are potentially dangerous - fridges never used to explode nor catch fire (to such an extent that houses are at risk). This will probably start to happen with new cars as the high pressure refrigerant and oil mixture settle on exhaust manifolds after relatively minor accidents.

[Mick F]

@mrpj I never ever checked on the air con on the Clio, but it worked absolutely fine, and always did.  If it had lost gas or not, I care not, because it worked perfectly.

The main thing IMHO, is to leave it on permanently.

Mick.

[Mooly]

Modern refrigerants are far more 'searching' than those old of old, having a smaller molecular make up. Even such things as hoses, which were impervious to the old R12 refrigerant, could appear slightly porous to the (then) new R134a. One of the main sources of leakage has always been from the compressor front seal where the shaft exits to the outside world.

We don't see these problems in fridges and freezers because there the whole system is hermetically sealed, in other words its a 100% sealed system with no flexible joints and couplings and crucially, a compressor that is also sealed. The only link to the outside world for the gas is the electrical cable into the compressor which can be 100% sealed because there is no movement on it.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

It is about time we moved back to the topic subject - Service plans - and away from hydrocarbons, fridges and freezers, whether they are due to explode, catch fire or cause a nuclear accident.

Please make it so.

[Berisford]

1 hour ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

It is about time we moved back to the topic subject - Service plans - and away from hydrocarbons, fridges and freezers, whether they are due to explode, catch fire or cause a nuclear accident.

Please make it so.

I agree....My Toyota dealer is a greedy git and charges far too much for a Yaris service* and tries to up sell other stuff too........On top of that they once even had the cheek to tell my wife that there payment system had failed and therefore she'd have to go away and find a 'cash machine' (nearest one was a 15 minute walk away) before they'd release the car! I was furious when she told me, fortunately she's an old fashioned kinda girl and carries a cheque book around in her handbag........that threw the youngster on service reception. They'll never recover from that one in my eyes.

* I have posted on the subject before and yes, I know....fixed price....overheads...warranty protection etc, etc.

[Mick F]

We won't be getting a service plan.

Ours will get a Toyota service when it's due - August this year - for it's fourth birthday.  I'm not sure what we'll do for 2019 as the warranty will expire then, so maybe shop around and probably get a service from an independent local garage, or even DIY it like I've done for years.  It's only a car:  brakes, oil, filters, plugs.

As for the hybrid health check, dunno what we'll do as yet.  We could forget it for a couple of years.

Mick.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Once the vehicle is five years old (outside the five year warranty), one can take advantage of the cheaper Essential Care servicing - currently for the Yaris £110 for the Silver (Intermediate) and £190 for the Gold (Full). The hybrid health check will also be done with Essential Care servicing.

Also there are sometimes offers such as the current one where one can get the Silver service including an MOT for £99. 

[Mick F]

Thanks!

It'll be a August 2019 before we need to make a decision about the future servicing.

Mick.

[Mike J.]

1 hour ago, Mick F said:

I'm not sure what we'll do for 2019 as the warranty will expire then .....

I extended the warranty by another 2 years. There is no way I will have an electric (hybrid) car without it. Inverters cost thousands. When changing the brake pads I think you need to consider the automatic brake booster system - it is not straightforward.

[FROSTYBALLS]

12 minutes ago, Mick F said:

Thanks!

It'll be a August 2019 before we need to make a decision about the future servicing.

Mick.

Not necessaily. One could make that decision after August 2018, which presumably is when the vehicle's next service is due. 

If one takes out a service plan out, it does fix your servicing costs, and I don't see why a service plan couldn't be done under Essential Care.

6 minutes ago, Mike J. said:

I extended the warranty by another 2 years. There is no way I will have an electric (hybrid) car without it. Inverters cost thousands. When changing the brake pads I think you need to consider the automatic brake booster system - it is not straightforward.

With Toyota extended warranties, servicing does have to be undertaken within the Toyota dealer network, and Essential Care servicing meets the warranty requirements.