Prius vs. PiP

[FROSTYBALLS]

Up until 2017, the Toyota Aqua (Prius C) was the hybrid supermini for Japan. With the 2017 Yaris/Vitz facelift, the hybrid drivetrain was offered in the Vitz for the first time in Japan.

[YarisHybrid2016]

You can get better mpg over a standard prius so the range is potentially increased.  Many owners in the USA run their PIP as a Prius (never plug them in) because they are as cheap to buy and perform better than a standard prius.

I have yet to find any downsides to what I've read about the PiPv2! The only thing holding me back is the fact the Yaris Hybrid is awesome - do I want to take the hit to change it?!

Something I read on the PriusChat forum was that the "Advanced" (UK equivalent would be Excel) had what they call "3 door unlocking", whereas the "Premium" (UK equivalent Business Edition) only had "1 door unlocking". Does anyone know if the UK Business Edition only allows locking/unlocking the car from the drivers door, or whether you can do it from all doors??

It seems odd that Toyota would do that, but they did.

I can't find mention of it on the Toyota site.

[barrycoll]

For me the most damning loss for the G4 pip, is now no tow bar option, so no way to use a tow bar bike rack.

swallowing the loss of a sun roof option was bad enough!

[Cyker]

I do miss having a sunroof in my Mk2 Yaris...
 

[YarisHybrid2016]

Damn it, Jim!

Having had the brakes on my car sorted out, I'm back to "you'll need to prize it out of my cold, dead hands". I would definitely miss the glass roof. It's also in very good shape overall.

@barrycoll: Is there no way you can get the rack and fit it? i.e. are the mount points missing? On the US version they say you can tow with it! WTH?

[barrycoll]

Yes, dear YarisH, the G4 has a dealer tow bar fitted,but it is not an option on the new PIP

[johalareewi]

On 04/03/2018 at 12:28 AM, YarisHybrid2016 said:

I have yet to find any downsides to what I've read about the PiPv2!

Possible downsides for me are:-

4 seater. I still have to squeeze 3 people in the back from time to time.  Maybe in a couple of years time, I won't have to.

Even less room in the boot than the gen4 Prius. not sure if it suffers the reduced headroom for rear passengers like the gen4.

Upsides over the gen1 PIP:-

Longer EV range and slightly faster charging.

Heat pump heating (and can heat while EV charging).

Built in grill blocking.

 

Might be able to test drive one in a couple of weeks so I can compare to my gen1 PIP.

[PeteB]

12 hours ago, johalareewi said:

...not sure if it suffers the reduced headroom for rear passengers like the gen4.

...Heat pump heating (and can heat while EV charging)...

I think the main body Shell is the same as the 'normal' Gen 4.

Heat pump also means you can heat the car on the move without running the engine, albeit at the expense of range.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

On 3/2/2018 at 2:23 PM, Mike J. said:

What I would love Toyota to do is to make a 'simple' Yaris Plug-in. My investigations show that the NIMH battery under the seat is about 1kWh in 'size'. As (I believe) Lithium Ion batteries are twice as energy dense as NIMH, you could fit a 2kWh battery - good for 8 miles in EV mode, plus you would have pre-heating (although the combining a hot water heater with a heat pump might be difficult). The major change would be the charging hardware, so a bit of boot space might disappear from one side. Add a rear electric motor for 4WD and I am in! 

Wouldn't be feasible. A kWh Battery will not get you 8 miles. For starters it'll only have about 1.2 kWh of useable power (the original PiP has a 4.4 kWh Battery with only 3 of those being available for use.

The Yaris (certainly in its current form) simply isn't big enough unfortunately to house a Battery big enough to make a plug in viable.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

On 3/1/2018 at 6:19 AM, YarisHybrid2016 said:

Hi,

What exactly is the difference? I know the PiP has a Li-Ion battery and can drive miles on pure electric, but on the hybrid side of the car, what is different? Does it have reduced range when it is unable to use the battery (in other words, when it is working as a straight hybrid, how does it compare)?

Apart from this, and a few styling feature differences, are they the same? I'm trying to work out if it is worth the cost of the PiP vs. the standard Prius - I'd be happy with either!!!!

Thank you.

With the original gen3 PiP the Li-Ion Battery resulted in better MPG over the standard Prius if used as a conventional hybrid without plugging it. My PiP used to do 70mpg real world with ease at motorway speeds without plugging in on long journeys.

[Mike J.]

2 hours ago, MEP's Yaris GS said:

Wouldn't be feasible. A kWh battery will not get you 8 miles. 

That is why I mentioned 2 kWh - small EVs seem to average 4 miles per kWh. There does seem to be a 'part' of the Battery that has to be always available to start the engine - the existing one seems to like around 300Wh for this, so 2kWh should give you 6 miles or even more in slow traffic. The bonus of pre-heating or cooling of the interior is not to be ignored and will really boost the mpg in winter. 

[Ten Ninety]

This has been a helpful thread, as I may be returning to the Prius fold later this year when our Auris HSD is replaced.

I am tempted by the new plug-in, as it could cover my journey to work on a single charge and if I can persuade work to install a charger then I could get home on electric as well. I was concerned about traditional hybrid economy when not charged, but the comments here have suggested this is not an issue. I also prefer the styling and equipment to the standard Gen4.

My other concern now is depreciation. Lightly used plug-ins are down to £24k, which is cheaper than some similar aged Gen4s. Thanks to the ridiculously strong residuals on the standard Gen4 I'd be paying around £22k if I wanted one with 15" wheels and low miles, so the minimal extra outlay for a plug-in seems like a no-brainer. But when I want to sell it in 5 years, will it be worth a lot less? Plug-ins from all manufacturers seem to have generally terrible depreciation. I haven't really looked in detail at how the first generation PIP prices compare to the Gen3 - have they held up relatively well? 

[QuantumFireball]

17 hours ago, MEP's Yaris GS said:

With the original gen3 PiP the Li-Ion battery resulted in better MPG over the standard Prius if used as a conventional hybrid without plugging it. My PiP used to do 70mpg real world with ease at motorway speeds without plugging in on long journeys.

What speeds are motorway speeds for you? It's 120 km/h here (about 75 MPH), and if I stick to that (which is 130 km/h indicated with the 15" wheels) I'd only get around 50-52 MPG.

[johalareewi]

5 hours ago, QuantumFireball said:

What speeds are motorway speeds for you? It's 120 km/h here (about 75 MPH), and if I stick to that (which is 130 km/h indicated with the 15" wheels) I'd only get around 50-52 MPG.

Wow!  On my gen1 PIP when doing 75mph on the speedo (69mph in real life) I usually get 70mpg in HV mode (less when I have the heating on!).  Unless you are using USA gallons.

[PeteB]

1 minute ago, johalareewi said:

Wow!  On my gen1 PIP when doing 75mph on the speedo (69mph in real life) I usually get 70mpg in HV mode (less when I have the heating on!).  Unless you are using USA gallons.

[OFF TOPIC]

Ha!  Reminds me of conversations online in the early days of my Gen 1 Prius, some 16 years ago, when US members of the Prius Yahoo chat group were gobsmacked that we got so much better mpg than they did, until someone reminded them that the Imperial Gallon is one of very few examples of something we have that's bigger than theirs!  

[MEP's Yaris GS]

6 hours ago, QuantumFireball said:

What speeds are motorway speeds for you? It's 120 km/h here (about 75 MPH), and if I stick to that (which is 130 km/h indicated with the 15" wheels) I'd only get around 50-52 MPG.

Indicated 70mph.

[QuantumFireball]

14 hours ago, johalareewi said:

Wow!  On my gen1 PIP when doing 75mph on the speedo (69mph in real life) I usually get 70mpg in HV mode (less when I have the heating on!).  Unless you are using USA gallons.

Really? Even if I stick to around 100 km/h (62 MPH) I only get around 60 MPG. And yes, imperial gallons - my car is a UK import (they never sold the gen 1 PIP in Ireland) so the trip computer is stuck in the old money (can only change speedo to metric). Could it be something to do with terrain? We have no motorways around here that are either flat or straight - I have to cross significant valleys to get anywhere from Cork.

I would be using cruise control most of the time on motorways - maybe not the most efficient way to drive.

[johalareewi]

On 15/03/2018 at 11:59 AM, QuantumFireball said:

Really? Even if I stick to around 100 km/h (62 MPH) I only get around 60 MPG. And yes, imperial gallons -

Double wow.  My old gen3 did better than that. 

In my PIP the mpg sufers if I crank the heating up but the lowest I have got is 65mpg.

[QuantumFireball]

I might be getting slightly better now after blocking the lower grille, but in 100% motorway driving that's pretty much what I was getting last year. If it's more varied driving, e.g. N roads (A road equivalent here) with slow sections through small towns where I can use EV mode, I can get closer to 70 MPG.