Procedure When Stationary

[PeteB]

OK, so in context:

1. most of the time, people leaving their brake lights on don't bother me at all, especially in daylight or at night on a well lit area of road.
2. occasionally, they are mildly to significantly annoying, more so at night in poorly lit areas, even worse when it's wet
3. on very rare occasions, when it's dark and possibly wet as well, and the vehicle in front has particularly bright brake lights, it causes such discomfort that I place the sun visor in their way and/or squint, trying to maintain some night vision for when the traffic moves and the brake lights extinguish.

Now, it is very likely the drivers of cars in category three have no idea they are causing such discomfort, and the offending vehicles often (but not always) tend to be either large, recent SUV types or ones that appear to have had modified light clusters fitted (and may well be illegal under the Construction and Use regulations).

Equally, I have no idea what, if any, effect my brake lights have on others, bearing in mind we will all have different levels of sensitivity, without necessarily being in a category that should refrain from night driving (to date, I don't recall having been behind a Gen 4 Prius at night with it's brake lights on).

Therefore, I do my best not to be showing brake lights for longer than is necessary, once at least one or two vehicles have stopped behind me, just in case they cause problems for following occupants.

As an aside, while stopped with nothing behind me, I pay a lot of attention to my mirrors and show brake lights once something approaches until I'm happy it is probably going to stop.  If it's approaching at speed, I may also briefly release and reapply the brake pedal to increase the awareness of approaching traffic.  I may at this stage use hazard lights too.

[Cyker]

@kithmo - IT's a valid question seeing as literally 99% of road users DON'T use handbrake-neutral!! But no, it's not just my opinion; This is what the highway code explicitly says, and was virtually hammered into me by my driving instructor! ;) You can and will quickly rack up minors until they become an insta-fail major fault for not doing handbrake+neutral in a manual car when stationary during a driving test!


@Ten Ninety - During the day they're fine, but it's dusk and night that is the problem - Maybe many people have fairly poor nightvision, but as someone who has quite good eyesight and nightvision, I can say brake lights *are* blinding at night, especially these new super-bright LED arrays that you get on e.g. newer Audis and Priuses!
Just a second at night is enough to leave a bunch of blobs in my vision which could easily lead to me missing one of the Dressed-In-Black suicidal pedestrians that tend to randomly run across the road in the places I drive.
Some years ago I started just closing my eyes while waiting in traffic at night because I can see the glow of the brakelights *through my eyelids*! And clearly enough to see when they go out and know it's time to move!


@Dancing Badger - I play that game too! XD Usually I am the only person doing neutral+handbrake sadly, and it's so rare to see another person do it that when I do I get disproportionately excited... >_>
It warms my heart to read so many of you don't stand on the footbrake for ages - It's so rare to see it in The Real World, and it makes me feel a bit better to know I'm not the only person who actually paid attention to the highway code! ^___^

[danowat]

Not trying to be funny, but could this also be an age issue?

I know as my step father has gotten older, he complains about glare from lights, and has to use orange lens to stop it, my wife has to do the same now too, maybe something happens to the eyes where the pupil doesn't react quick enough, or dilate enough that causes the person to feel glare?

Just an thought.........

I also agree with the poster who said the majority of people hold it on the brakes, I've driven in a lot of countries, and it's the same wherever you go.

[Mike J.]

9 hours ago, PeteB said:

Therefore, I do my best not to be showing brake lights for longer than is necessary, once at least one or two vehicles have stopped behind me, just in case they cause problems for following occupants.

Same here. I always try to use N if only because I am lazy - why waste my energy pressing a pedal . I already have an automatic to save on the left leg . As I also like to reduce vehicle energy usage - if the engine starts up I will try to invoke EV mode which sometimes works (high Battery available) and sometimes turning off the heating does the same.

I do reserve the right to use D and footbrake for Battery charging, in extremis though .

[FROSTYBALLS]

For those who wear spectacles and experience glare from car lights at night or in poor light conditions, it may be worth looking at the different types of lenses available. For example Zeiss have their DriveSafe lenses, of which one of the benefits is reduced glare from street lights and car lights. My wife has these and found them to be better for her.

https://www.zeiss.co.uk/vision-care/en_gb/products-services/spectacle-lenses/drivesafe-lenses.html

Obviously there may be alternatives on offer.

[Ten Ninety]

As a middle-aged spectacle-wearer myself, I'm hardly in the best position to be casting aspersions on other peoples' eyesight, so I'm sorry for causing offence with my previous comment. I had genuinely thought the word 'blind' was being used as hyperbole, but evidently it wasn't.

9 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

For those who wear spectacles and experience glare from car lights at night or in poor light conditions, it may be worth looking at the different types of lenses available. For example Zeiss have their DriveSafe lenses, of which one of the benefits is reduced glare from street lights and car lights. My wife has these and found them to be better for her.

https://www.zeiss.co.uk/vision-care/en_gb/products-services/spectacle-lenses/drivesafe-lenses.html

Obviously there may be alternatives on offer.

I'd second that - I don't know what brand mine are, but I've always specified anti-glare lenses. If brake lights cause a problem, I would imagine oncoming traffic on an unlit road is similarly stressful, so glare reduction would potentially be a double benefit for people suffering.

[PeteB]

2 hours ago, Ten Ninety said:

... I would imagine oncoming traffic on an unlit road is similarly stressful, so glare reduction would potentially be a double benefit for people suffering.

Generally not, because oncoming lights are only a problem if full beam, or headlights are out of alignment.  Plus it's usually fleeting, whereas intense brake lights are close up, form a triangle in front of you, and can be on for some time.  It's relatively easy to deal with.

[Cars stopped on the wrong side of the road with headlights on at night (two offences here, 3 if within 10m/32 feet of a junction) are a right pain though, again especially in the wet.] - don't get me started!

I'm 62 next month, have been wearing varifocal glasses since 2011, and always specify all the anti-glare options.  I've had my eyes tested every year since my mid 40s (because of my heavy use of IT) and always ask if I'm legal to drive without them, since my main correction is for close-up.  The answer has always been yes, and in the early days of wearing gasses I occasionally removed them (well, rested them on my forehead) on the odd occasion I was more than moderately troubled by brake lights, but stopped doing do as it didn't seem to make things any better.

[I only really need them to see the smaller items on the speedo screens, SatNav etc - the large speedo on the dash and HUD are perfectly visible without my glasses.]

[PeteB]

Incidentally, a topical news items on BBC today re use of parking/hand brake:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-43490586

"A bus driver who killed a woman when his single-decker hit her has admitted causing death by careless driving.
The prosecution told the court Gilbert had taken a safety "short cut" by holding the bus on its handbrake instead of taking it out of gear and putting it in neutral.
That constituted dangerous driving, the prosecution alleged.
However, a driving instructor told the jury keeping the bus in "drive" rather than neutral would merit a fault in a test - with a driver failing the test only after four faults."

[Parts-King]

My other half works for a well known spectacle saving brand  There are a LOT of drivers who have problems with bright lights, glare etc. I started to see headlights with a kind of flare or starburst effect a few years back, and thought I had a problem with my sight, but after a sight test and checking my glasses, it appears the "coating" was breaking down causing this strange effect which had been there for some time. I got new glasses and all was well. These coatings don't last forever, in fact, mine only lasted a few years  

On another rant over lights, why is it nothing is done about cars with wonky, out of aim, intensely bright HID's that tend to blind you when just one headlight is out of focus? Rant over, it's another subject altogether  

[FROSTYBALLS]

7 hours ago, Parts-King said:

On another rant over lights, why is it nothing is done about cars with wonky, out of aim, intensely bright HID's that tend to blind you when just one headlight is out of focus? 

Won't the MOT changes due 20th May, directed towards aftermarket HID's help to reduce this?

 

[Parts-King]

3 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Won't the MOT changes due 20th May, directed towards aftermarket HID's help to reduce this?

Indeed it should, but in my experience, rather like dodgy spaced number plates, people swap back to "proper" plates before MOT and put the dodgy ones back on later. Lately there seems to have been an explosion in these dodgy, out of focus headlamps, probably made all the worse by the winter nights. The problem will go away over the summer  

 

[danowat]

I know the one's the mean, and it's not just limited to aftermarket HID's, lots of people have misaligned headlights.

On a similar note, there does seem to be a misconception that LED headlights are misaligned by oncoming drivers, whether it's because they have a flat beam pattern, or are just brighter / whiter than most people are used too means that (I) get flashed way too often, even though I've had my headlights checked at the dealer, and I am not carrying anything (and yes, the auto leveler is still working!!!)

[Parts-King]

Indeed, you also have those projector lights that almost appear to be flashing at you from a certain angle, with a kind of blue tint from the prism effect 

[kithmo]

1 hour ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Won't the MOT changes due 20th May, directed towards aftermarket HID's help to reduce this?

Am I reading it right ? 

It seems to say that aftermarket HIDs will be a failure, regardless of whether they are adjusted correctly or not, i.e. only factory fit will pass.

[Parts-King]

More info on HID lights

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/aftermarket-hid-headlamps/aftermarket-hid-headlamps

and MOT changes

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mot-changes-20-may-2018

 

[Parts-King]

As if by magic...................

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43525525

 

[Catlover]

As I read the situation, reflectors in the light unit are designed to cope with the type of bulb fitted by the manufacturer at the time of build. If someone then changes the bulb to a different type then the bulb-reflector efficiency could well be different causing potential  problems ie dazzling on coming drivers. 

[Parts-King]

5 minutes ago, Catlover said:

As I read the situation, reflectors in the light unit are designed to cope with the type of bulb fitted by the manufacturer at the time of build. If someone then changes the bulb to a different type then the bulb-reflector efficiency could well be different causing potential  problems ie dazzling on coming drivers. 

Correct, which is why you see so many cars where there appears to be one light out of alignment 

Sorry I have wandered off topic  

[FROSTYBALLS]

9 minutes ago, Catlover said:

As I read the situation, reflectors in the light unit are designed to cope with the type of bulb fitted by the manufacturer at the time of build. If someone then changes the bulb to a different type then the bulb-reflector efficiency could well be different causing potential  problems ie dazzling on coming drivers. 

One could say it's blindingly obvious .....

[Andy H777]

keep foot on brake pedal, stop the Battery trying to push you forward. 

[YarisHybrid2016]

On conventional autos I use N + the handbrake, but N apparently can result in a flat HV Battery on hybrids so I use the footbrake and keep it in drive, unless the traffic is stopping for longer than a red light, then I'll put it into park.

The reason for NOT using park ordinarily in stopped traffic is simply in the event of a shunt, it could break the pawl and then the transmission needs to be stripped down to fix it. Obviously leaving it in D avoids this problem.

The other day I encountered a 4x4 type vehicle with rear LED brake lights so bright I actually suffered sore eyes from just a momentary glance in daylight. They appeared to be stock lights, too.

LEDs are not *BRIGHT* as in, like a torch, but as a SOURCE OF LIGHT they are like lasers. As with lasers, looking directly at them is what will destroy your vision.

I'm still very much of the opinion that LED lighting in the long-term will result in as yet undiscovered eye problems. I'm absolutely convinced of it. They are so intense that they hurt your eyes. To get an ordinary bulb that bright you'd need a kilowatt work lamp. I have banished my house of direct LED lighting (those downlights - no thanks!!!), unless they are inside an opaque diffuser and not in the direct line of sight. I'm still not convinced of their safety even then.

[wass]

Getting back to the original query, I put it into P and apply the parking brake. I keep an eye on the traffic conditions and haven't got any issues with being prepared to move when safe to do so.I simply continue to observe the road conditions whilst stationary in traffic. A couple of seconds is the longest it takes to select a gear with my right foot on the brake pedal, and let off the parking brake with my left foot whilst transferring my right foot to the accelerator to be ready to apply pressure.It takes practice but no more practice than all learner drivers need to apply to achieving a hill start in a manual car in a timely manner. A couple of seconds is how long it takes to change from red to green via red-amber,or from the car in front of the car in front to start moving  to the car in front moving.  If you dont have the ICE switched on it is even possible just to hear that the traffic in ones own lane is about to move.

I do understand how people may be worried about the possibility of the gearbox internals being wrecked whilst somebodies car writes off the rear of the car but I reason that it decreases the chances that my car will cannon into the car in front like a snooker ball and therefore helps to reduce the chances of a counter claim from the vehicle my car may have cannoned into. I think that I would be more concerned with the impact into the traction Battery than whether the gearbox could be salvaged.

[Alan Saunders]

On 3/12/2018 at 5:04 PM, QuantumFireball said:

I thought this is only a limitation with earlier generations of Prius? I heard leaving a gen 3 or newer in N will still allow it to charge the battery, although I haven't tested it myself...

I think they just wanted to make it operate as close to a normal car as possible. One of the primary target markets for the Prius are yanks, who are used to the way a traditional auto box works.

Personally, if I'm stuck in traffic for a long time, I use the parking brake and N. Otherwise I keep my foot on the (service?) brake.

I'd certainly not keep it in D with the parking brake on - I've had enough cars with crap handbrakes to know this could potentially end badly.

Making it creep like a normal automatic makes sense from a driver (used to automatics) point of view, but it is a pity, because it wastes energy.

[Catlover]

On 3/17/2018 at 5:39 PM, Catlover said:

When on a longish anticipated stop I now got used to pressing the left foot "handbrake" and slipping the gear selector into N.

Starting off is then simply the case of having my right foot ready on the accelerator pedal, snicking the box into D and releasing the foot pedal, at the same time applying slight pressure on the accelerator.

Actually, glad I got used to this because I was wondering what do I do on a hill start - now I know, its exactly what I am doing except with more co-ordination over right foot accelerator and left foot releasing the foot "hand" brake.

.

 

 

Just over one year on I find myself doing exactly the same procedure as I did then, but now in a gen 4 Prius rather then a gen 3.

[Cjohnston1982]

On 3/17/2018 at 5:39 PM, Catlover said:

 

When on a longish anticipated stop I now got used to pressing the left foot "handbrake" and slipping the gear selector into N.

Starting off is then simply the case of having my right foot ready on the accelerator pedal, snicking the box into D and releasing the foot pedal, at the same time applying slight pressure on the accelerator.

Actually, glad I got used to this because I was wondering what do I do on a hill start - now I know, its exactly what I am doing except with more co-ordination over right foot accelerator and left foot releasing the foot "hand" brake.

.

 

 

You do realise that the traction Battery will not charge, if required, when the gear selector is in N. I believe the owners manual discourages placing the car in N when stationary. Placing the car into P will still allow the engine to charge the Battery.

When the engine is charging the Battery and the car is stationary move the gear selector to N and you’ll hear the difference.