Driving the 2.5 Hybrid RAV 4 2018

[Goncas_pt71]

Hi all

I would like to get some feedbck from those who had the chance to drive both 1.8 and 2.5 hybrid petrol based engines Toyotas.

I find a lot of driving tips for the Prius and Auris and Yaris but not for the RAV4 2.5 hybrid based engine. It has more power than the 1.8 but I don't know the difference for the electric engine. I drove twice, as test drive, the RAV 4 and once the Auris Sport Tourer and the response from RAV4 is fantastic even with the weight difference. I suspect there should be some different tricks for the RAV4 or for this engine.

Online I found plenty of tests, how to's and oficial Toyota tips for the 1.8 HSD but almost nothing for the 2.5. The very few I found on the Lexus NX300 (that shares the same engine) is even somehow oposite of what is said to 1.8 - there is a LEXUS NX300 presention that, at a certain point, the technician says that you should always use the Cruize Control system, when possible, to maintain the speed whereas for the Toyota 1.8 advise is to maintain the throttle at the same position independently if you go slower or faster... The last being a bit harder to accomplish given the sensibility of the throttle pedal, even in ECO mode.

Of course I still didn't have the full experience with the RAV 4 but I'm starting to collect feedback.

My daily path to work is a mix of big down Hill, then a big up Hill than flat. One third of each, more or less. There is a 12 Km long ride, on a very heavy traffic situation, on the morning, and not so much traffic on the end of the day.

Thank you for the feedback.

[Mike169]

Hi, the link below may be worth reading.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/toyota/rav4

Mike.

[Goncas_pt71]

Hi Mike

Thank you for the link.

I didn't drive the RAV4 so much - just for two (short) one hour each test drive sessions one more on rough terrain and other on good roads. I was so overwelming with the smoothness of the car that I missed some points. 

I tend to agree with the gentleman that wrote the article in terms of the interior and suspension Setup. It looks like Toyota interior designers have never be insdie a decent european car :-). On the other hand, it would be strange (and suspicious) for somone used to Toyotas for 20 years now to see something very fancy. I tend to look for a car that transpors me and my family from A to B, on a safety and reliable way. Until now I got it from Toyota. In 20 years I only got a faulty alternator on a 7,5 years old Avensis. Nothing else made me go to Toyota garage to fix the car. A bit of love and maintenance on time is enough :-)

However this article is not informative in terms of the daily driving experience that some of you can have. I've seen some long term testings with RAV4 on US roads and cities (most of them plan, with not so much ups and downs as the city where I live - Lisboa - the seven hills city). Unfortunately there is also not many RAV4 hybrid here so I guess I'll be discovering all about driving it by myself. For sure I'll post my findings here.

 

 

[Mike169]

Hi Goncalo.

First of all thank you for replying to my post. I like my current Rav 4, I bought it all but new with less than 2000 miles on the clock from a main dealer and  it was as expected immaculate. It was registered the last day in 2012 so is now a little over 14,000 miles on the clock. I bought it for the reliability so it will be a good buy to someone when I sell it. Forgetting all that my only negative impression I recall is that the interior looks mass produced and the finish is not to the standard to many other cars I have owned, I feel Toyota could put more refinements in as standard. Overall I am very impressed with the Rav 4, it just 'works' and I put reliability it's main selling point and would buy another one tomorrow. I believe the latest model is better inside and inspired by your posting I went onto the Toyota website and built my own new hybrid Rav 4 with the extra's i'd like, window shopping i'd like, and it came to £38,000, all those little extra's certainly push the price up. Do let us know how you get on if you do get another one, i'd be interested what you thought of your new car once you've had it a short while.

Regards Mike.

[Heidfirst]

15 hours ago, Goncas_pt71 said:

I tend to agree with the gentleman that wrote the article in terms of the interior and suspension Setup. It looks like Toyota interior designers have never be insdie a decent european car :-).

The main market for the RAV4 is N. America (407,000+ in the USA alone in 2017 v 71,000+ for the whole of Europe in 2017). That is a market that traditionally has put less demand/emphasis on the quality of interiors. Having said that Toyota seems to be generally improving the quality of it's interiors as it replaces models albeit they still quite aren't up to the latest VAG etc. standards.

[Mike169]

Hi Heidfirst.

That's interesting where the Rav's main market is, you have quoted some impressive figures. I find the things you posts interesting as you certainly seem to know your stuff. I sat in a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV and yes it's still plastic but the interior is better quality plastic, plastic 'wooden' trim yes but overall the interior was very pleasing to the eye. The biggest negative with the PHEV is the price, very expensive. Apparently we here in the UK the PHEV is more popular than they are in Japan.

Regards Mike.

[HectorG]

In reply to Heidfirst, the low sales volumes of the RAV4 in Europe don't surprise me because of the domination of German and French car makers despite their increasing unreliability. North Americans (i.e Americans and Canadians) seem to value reliability and cost above perceived status and fashion. 

On trips to South Africa and New Zealand in the last 12 months I was amazed at the almost total dominance of Toyota in those markets. In New Zealand, in a group of 10 cars passing in the opposite direction, it was not unusual to count 6 RAV4’s! Clearly in those countries reliability is essential, hence the choice of Toyota. 

I’ve  been driving Japanese cars for getting on for 20 years - Toyota, Honda,Subaru and Nissan. The only exception was a Land Rover Freelander 2 (pressure from wife) and that was a disaster in terms of reliability, so got rid and went back to Subaru. I now run a RAV4 Hybrid which I would have bought sooner if it had been available. In reply to Goncas, it’s a very good, if unexciting, drive. Very comfortable, quiet, economical, roomy, cheap to tax in the UK (£20 per annum). As with most Japanese cars, the infotainment systems are a few years behind the Europeans. However, the next model,just announced, looks pretty up to date.

I would thoroughly recommend the RAV4 Hybrid. It replaced a Subaru Forester XT which was very quick, but the Toyota seems a much more solid and substantial car. Of course in N. America Subarus are very cheap (unlike in the UK due to the ridiculous mark up of the importers) and seen as almost a budget car, which inevitably means corners are cut with the quality of some items, particularly the interiors. 

[Goncas_pt71]

Hi Mike

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and I´m pretty sure that you'll spend a lot of good times with your RAV 4. 

I'll for sure share all my findings and feelings with the new car, when I get it. Seams an eternity...

I did also entered on a Mitsu PHEV. Here, as it is a PlugIn it's almost offer as company car. The problem is that my boss refused any Plug-in (he's a German diesel car fan so I'm still a bit surprised on how he did accept an hybrid). Here the PHEV costs around 54K € but as company car is less than 32K€. Pure Hybrids (or the Self Charging Hybrids) are treated as a normal car. :-(  For me the biggest "attraction"  on the Mitsu would be the fact that I would be able to do a full daily run only with Battery. The problem would be the monthly Electricity cost for it :-) The down part is that the engine is known to be underpowered for the car thus a big spend of petrol when running out of Battery. Well nothing is perfect...

The RAV4 Pure Dark costs around 37K€ for company car and 41K€ for normal client. 

What I loved about this RAV was the peace we feel on driving it- total silence (unless you press hard the accelerator pedal). It feels big, it feels solid, it feels good! My colleague has a Honda CRV 2017 and it feels like a fancy toy with all those colorful displays. RAV seems an adult car :-). Then I miss those details that the European are ahead: hidden usb plug, sac holders at the sides (to hold the MacDonalds food bags :-) ), things that make sense for the day by day and don't need a team of nerds to think about, especially on a familiar SUV. Well we can't have it all and we get the most important: a reliable car from a brand that doesn't  fool it's clients. 

[Goncas_pt71]

Hi HectorG

Thank you for your feedback on the RAV4 Hybrid.

The fact it's not the Ferrari of the hybrids it's not a problem to me since I have a natural and organic Speed Limiter - my wife - that would prevent me to do more than 120Km/h (something like 80mph) :-).

I guess sometime I would need to change the brand but I have it all setup there is another Japanese brand that I would love to drive: LEXUS :-). Now seriously, I drive Toyotas since 97, I've "sold" Toyotas to all my family and my wife's family too (except my father in law that was a Citroen fan) as to some friends of mine. 

Note: I'm not a car seller.

Regarding driving tips for the RAV4 hybrid, have you got already reached any conclusion?

And about the audio system? Do you have the JBL or the base one? What are your findings on it?

[HectorG]

Hi Goncas

Regarding driving tips, I don’t do anything particularly out of the ordinary. I pretty much always drive in Eco Mode and use Adaptive Cruise Control a lot, especially in restricted speed zones. Also, I avoid unnecessary rapid acceleration, but that is a normal tip for economic driving in any car. One tip I’ve seen that relates to hybrids, despite what I said about rapid acceleration, is to get to your target speed quickly and then ease off the accelerator so the car goes into EV mode as soon as possible and starts regenerating.

I used to drive like an old granny when I first got the car about 15 months ago, to try to get the best possible fuel consumption. I’ve found I now seem to get around 44 mpg (6.4 Litres/100km) driving pretty normally without going overboard on the granny driving. So in practice the improvement in fuel consumption by ‘hypermiling’ isn’t that significant. Although I would say  my mpg has improved as the engine loosens up and maybe my driving style has actually adjusted naturally over time to suit the car.

I also looked at the Lexus NX 300 as an alternative to the RAV - I was attracted by the modern styling and lovely interior. However, I felt the ride quality of the RAV was better - I thought the Lexus was a bit ‘crashy’ On poor surfaces around town. Also, I wasn’t prepared to pay the signicantly higher cost (even over the top of the range Excel RAV which I bought) for just a nice interior. The clincher was the fuel consumption of the NX was 5 mpg (56 litres/100 km) worse than the RAV according to websites such as Spiritmonitor which details drivers actual fuel consumption and not the wildly inaccurate figures of the manufacurers. I can’t explain why the Nexus is less economical than the RAV when it has the same engine, unless it is down to the extra weight. Overall, I felt the RAV was a more ‘honest’ car and of perfectly acceptable quality for me. I mentioned in my previous post the huge numbers of Toyota’s in general, and RAV4’s in particular, I came across in both South Africa and New Zealand. It struck me in those countries how few Lexus you see - in fact almost none. I think that here in the UK motorists are easily swayed by the perceived quality of fancy interiors and unnecessary gimmicks. My advice - stick to Toyota.

I think my audio system is standard, but it’s pretty good and at least as good, and probably better,  than systems I’ve had in other Japanese cars I’ve owned. Certainly no complaints from me.

[Goncas_pt71]

8 hours ago, HectorG said:

I used to drive like an old granny when I first got the car about 15 months ago, to try to get the best possible fuel consumption. I’ve found I now seem to get around 44 mpg (6.4 Litres/100km) driving pretty normally without going overboard on the granny driving.

Hi HectorG

I'm afraid it will my first times driving it. :-)

Well, just knew that it will take another week and half to get the car - the license plates and insurance takes too long and, in top of that, the options I chose are not in stock so still waiting for the roof rails that should come from Japan, so long it will take to be delivered! :-(

 

[DaveKA]

Hi Goncas,

I can share my experience so far with a 2018 2.5 Excel Hybrid AWD.  I have only done 2000 miles from new so the engine may have been a bit tight for part of that but am getting around the 40mpg mark in general driving which includes short (2 mile) journeys where the engine will be in warm-up mode, therefore using more fuel.

I decided to experiment with 97Ron petrol to see if the 2.5 could make use of better low down torque, but have not done enough miles for any real conclusions. Interestingly while on BP 97Ron, on a 20 mile journey which included the hills around Bath in general traffic, the computer showed 54mpg, and I have had 50 on a 10 mile run, so it looks interesting. I will admit I am no longer a boy racer, that was many years ago in my MGA, but I don't dawdle.

You asked for driving style pointers, the only ones I can offer are :

1 -  it's all down to your right foot, use the Hybrid System Indicator dial (it's like using the old manifold vacuum gauge) to tell you if you are using more throttle than necessary, try to keep in the sweet spot of the lower half of the Econ range, dramatic driving burns fuel.

2 - my dealer advised me that the Eco and Sport buttons don't do anything that sensible use of your right foot can't, especially if you use the six selectable ratios if you need something special.

3 - anticipate what the vehicle in front is liable to do so you can substitute regenerative braking for standing on the anchors.

4 - you can manipulate the engine control  software , especially in town or at constant speed, by easing back on the throttle until the car goes into regeneration mode, then lightly open the throttle which will put it into Battery driven mode. If more power is needed the engine will start automatically, but you're still on light throttle.

Always bear in mind that a hybrid makes its money by turning momentum into Battery charge instead of disk brake heat. Don't be scared to use the car on Battery, that's what saves you money. Running with a constantly full battery is unnecessary and means there can be no regeneration. The electronics will always cut in to charge the battery if it gets too discharged.

I hope this is of some use to you, they are purely my own observations and I hope you enjoy your new vehicle as much as I am mine.

Dave

[Goncas_pt71]

On 4/28/2018 at 1:02 PM, DaveKA said:

Hi Goncas,

I can share my experience so far with a 2018 2.5 Excel Hybrid AWD.  I have only done 2000 miles from new so the engine may have been a bit tight for part of that but am getting around the 40mpg mark in general driving which includes short (2 mile) journeys where the engine will be in warm-up mode, therefore using more fuel.

You asked for driving style pointers, the only ones I can offer are :

1 -  it's all down to your right foot, use the Hybrid System Indicator dial (it's like using the old manifold vacuum gauge) to tell you if you are using more throttle than necessary, try to keep in the sweet spot of the lower half of the Econ range, dramatic driving burns fuel.

2 - my dealer advised me that the Eco and Sport buttons don't do anything that sensible use of your right foot can't, especially if you use the six selectable ratios if you need something special.

3 - anticipate what the vehicle in front is liable to do so you can substitute regenerative braking for standing on the anchors.

4 - you can manipulate the engine control  software , especially in town or at constant speed, by easing back on the throttle until the car goes into regeneration mode, then lightly open the throttle which will put it into battery driven mode. If more power is needed the engine will start automatically, but you're still on light throttle.

Always bear in mind that a hybrid makes its money by turning momentum into battery charge instead of disk brake heat. Don't be scared to use the car on battery, that's what saves you money. Running with a constantly full battery is unnecessary and means there can be no regeneration. The electronics will always cut in to charge the battery if it gets too discharged.

I hope this is of some use to you, they are purely my own observations and I hope you enjoy your new vehicle as much as I am mine.

Dave

Hi Dave

Many thanks for your feedback!

I just received my RAV4 late on Friday and made, until now, "just" 80 miles mainly on city traffic. Average was not bad: 6.7 l/100Km (around 42 mpg) considering I was getting around 9 l/100Km with the Avensis 2.0D4D. Lisbon is known as the "seven hills city" so we got a lot of up's and downs - one discharges the Battery and petrol, the other almost fully charges the Battery :-)

First impressions: I got a Sweet Beast for a car :-) - on ECO mode is a so smooth driving! and on SPORT Mode it roars like a lion and stick us against the seat. Of course you cannot drive it like an AVENSIS but, when we forget it, it's easy to correct it. If you RTFM, it's all there in big warnings.

I love the driving feeling, so quiet and smooth with lot's of power ready to burst. I love the huge space on the interior - you can do party inside :-). I love the rough feeling with the heavy doors. I love the simple old Toyota style of the dashboard, without many buttons nor strange design elements. I love being able to turn off the trunk light. I love to have an USB plug although I would love it even more if hidden.

I miss the tunnel hole between the back seat and the trunk. I miss the lovely sound system (I had on the Avensis). I miss an automatic side mirror fold when Reversing. I miss the 1.20m long platform on the trunk. I miss a stupid light on the glove compartment, instead of the ones for the feet. I miss the rotating front lights turning to the side I turn... only on the Premium model. I miss a protection net separating the trunk from the rear seats (when the trunk is totally full to the roof). But, well, I can happy live with it :-)

In two weeks I'll should have the chance to make a highway trip. In the meantime I'll have some time to get experienced with the tons of stuff the Touch 2 and Go can do. I just recently discovered it can even put on screen your emails! I must no say it to my boss otherwise I'll have no more excuses to see the emails even driving :-(

I'll keep posting more feedbacks here, when it justifies.

Gonçalo

 

[thebiglad]

I was interested in a Hybrid RAV4, until I found out the following which relates to a RAV4 purchased in France :

 

1. The Hybrid is only available with the CVT (neighing horse) auto gearbox;

2. The towing limit which is 2000kgs on all the other models is reduced to 1650kgs for the Hybrid and our horse trailer has a GVW of 2000 kgs.

3. There is no plug-in hybrid version.

4. Prices here start at 41,000€ for a 4x4 Hybrid !!!

Looks like we'll be keeping our RAV4 3.

[FROSTYBALLS]

45 minutes ago, thebiglad said:

The Hybrid is only available with the CVT (neighing horse) auto gearbox

All Toyota hybrids sold in Europe have an e-CVT transmission so it isn't a surprise the Rav4 hybrid does..

[thebiglad]

Yes Mike, but if it's anything like the variable bands gearboxes of the past in Daf cars (which I believe it is) then I couldn't have that as I believe it robs you of driving pleasure. Plus they don't offer a manual gearbox alternative.

Most other make hybrids have a std. double clutch style auto gearbox

[Heidfirst]

36 minutes ago, thebiglad said:

Yes Mike, but if it's anything like the variable bands gearboxes of the past in Daf cars (which I believe it is)

it isn't

Plus they don't offer a manual gearbox alternative.

Don't think that anybody offers a hybrid with a manual gearbox?

Most other make hybrids have a std. double clutch style auto gearbox

but not the proven reliability of the Toyota system ...

Does anybody else offer a hybrid with a 2000kg + towing capability (e.g. the Outlander PHEV is only 1500Kg)? There are certain things that diesel is still best suited for & towing heavy loads tends to be one of them.

[thebiglad]

9 minutes ago, Heidfirst said:

Does anybody else offer a hybrid with a 2000kg + towing capability (e.g. the Outlander PHEV is only 1500Kg)? There are certain things that diesel is still best suited for & towing heavy loads tends to be one of them.

The only one that immediately comes to mind  is the Range Rover hybrid, but that of course is in a slightly different price range.

The bottom line seems to be, for me at least, is that there isn't a new, plug-in hybrid 4x4, with a 2000 kgs + towing within anything like a reasonable price range, so we'll be keeping our current RAV4

[Goncas_pt71]

Hi  thebiglad

I didn't bought the RAV4 Hybrid to tow anything so, for that side I'm OK.

Regarding the eCVT, and forgeting for some minutes the petrol waste, I can tell you that I'm totally surprised with the power of this engine and how the eCVT works on all modes available (EV, ECO, Normal and SPORT)! I would say that up until 150Km/H, besides some sport cars, on SPORT or Normal Modes, this hybrid comb will put behind a majority of the cars - you just have to put the shift grear on the manual S and you'll see it running. The problem is when you come to your senses and look at the AVG going up to 11 l/100Km  or more, your rush sudenly goes away but... your smile keeps there :-)

I'm managing to get between 4.7 to 5.6 l/100Km on city traffic with a zen driving. this goes up to 7 l when I'm in a rush. 

I still don't have any real feedback on highway because I still dind't get the chance for it. But one thing I'm sure: the adaptative cruise control works very well on keeping the petrol cost low. Until now I was unable to beet it on secondary roads where we can do up to 90 Km/H.

The most negative point with this car is the audio player - totally unsusable if you have a pen with lots of alguns of different artists - worst if you have lot's of compilations! As you don't have a search engine by folders, it becomes a total mess looking for any music on a pen. Hope there is an upgrade for the third version of the 

Well, I'll keep posting some more feedbacks as long as I find it useful for sharing.

Gonçalo

[thebiglad]

Hi Gonçalo and thank your for your feedback on the RAV4 hybrid. It sounds like you are really enjoying your new car.

Salut

Dave

[Goncas_pt71]

Hi Dave

 

I must confess that I was not expecting to have such a powerful machine on my hands. However the reasons for which I bought this car were almost fully met:

- Wanted automatic gear - check

- Wanted less consumption - I'm doing much less than with my previous car so: check, although I must confess that, on Zen mode, I tend to get a bit nervous :-)

                                                   (Could not use Plug-ins due to company restritions - stupid ones, but I must respect it)

- Wanted lots of internal space - check

- Wanted a good sound - Failed on many details.

- Wanted a continuation for the Avensis range - check (I started with a 89 Corolla, then a 98 Starlet, a 2002 Corolla 1.4 SW, a 2006 Avensis 2.0D4D SW and a 2010 Avensis 2.0 D4D T27) Missing the Verso, Prius, LandCruiser and Hilux :-) Although I like the sport cars, it's really not a car that I would buy for my daily routine. I confess that I was pointing to the Prius+ but that model was said to be closed for new orders for it... so I got the chance to get the RAV4. 

- Got the bonus of a quick start car to beat many on the traffic lights - great! 

Let's hope the reliability is the same as all the other Toyotas I've driven so far    and I'll be a very happy guy :-)

I understand that this car is really not the best for rough work with lot's of tow capabilities. Also, as far as I've seem on many side-by-side tests, it would not be a LandCruiser on the mud but I'm really not into AT at all. So, long story short: I'm very happy with this RAV4 :-)

Cheers!

[thebiglad]

Brilliant mate, very pleased for you.

I think for us we'll keep our T180 and I'll get a Hyundai Ionic Electric.

 

I was hoping to go down to one car, but that doesn't seem possible for our range of requirements.

 

Cheers

Dave