Cruise Control - brakes?

[Mick F]

We have cruise control on our Yaris Hybrid and it works well.

Cruising along and touch the foot brake, and cruise control is disabled.  You can resume if you want of course.

In a fit of experimentation yesterday, I tried pulling on the handbrake to see what happened.  Nothing at all happened, except the car put more power down to keep the speed constant.

It seems strange to me, that the handbrake's function as well as being a parking brake, is also an emergency brake, and it won't work when cruise control is in use.

Mick.

[Mike J.]

1 hour ago, Mick F said:

We have cruise control on our Yaris Hybrid and it works well.

Cruising along and touch the foot brake, and cruise control is disabled.  You can resume if you want of course.

In a fit of experimentation yesterday, I tried pulling on the handbrake to see what happened.  Nothing at all happened, except the car put more power down to keep the speed constant.

It seems strange to me, that the handbrake's function as well as being a parking brake, is also an emergency brake, and it won't work when cruise control is in use.

Mick.

I doubt anyone would go straight to the handbrake in an emergency! The footbrake would be the first port of call 😉 - disabling cruise.

As regards using the handbrake against the engine - don't do it again as, in extremis, one wheel would lock first and if this happens at speed the car will spin and I doubt the ESP could understand what is going on with the handbrake being on, with engine power, confusing the issue.

[Mick F]

9 hours ago, Mike J. said:

I doubt anyone would go straight to the handbrake in an emergency!

Very true, but I thought it was a valid experiment and interesting, as in extremis, the handbrake is the last resort especially if the passenger is the only person in control.

Mick.

[bathtub tom]

I'm surprised the handbrake doesn't disable cruise. It should be easy enough for the manufacturer to arrange this, as there's an electrical contact that brings up a warning light on the dash when the handbrake's operated.

[Mick F]

4 hours ago, bathtub tom said:

I'm surprised the handbrake doesn't disable cruise. It should be easy enough for the manufacturer to arrange this, as there's an electrical contact that brings up a warning light on the dash when the handbrake's operated.

Exactly this.

I was surprised in a way, because it seems so easy to have been done.  I have zero experience of cruise control as this is the first car that I've ever owned with CC so still finding my way round it.  To have ALL the controls connected to the CC system just seems common sense to me.

Mick.

[Mike J.]

9 hours ago, bathtub tom said:

I'm surprised the handbrake doesn't disable cruise. It should be easy enough for the manufacturer to arrange this, as there's an electrical contact that brings up a warning light on the dash when the handbrake's operated.

I am not surprised as the handbrake also fails to turn off the electric motor when stationary even though the footbrake does. Then again, I like the simple handbrake - most new cars now have electric ones - much more to fail.

[Mick F]

1 minute ago, Mike J. said:

I am not surprised as the handbrake also fails to turn off the electric motor when stationary even though the footbrake does. Then again, I like the simple handbrake - most new cars now have electric ones - much more to fail.

What????

That is stupid in the extreme.  Absolute poor design!

Stop at a junction/traffic lights, and set the handbrake.  That's what any automatic driver would/should do.  Why should a Toyota Hybrid be different?  Why does the electric motor turn off when stopped with the footbrake, but not the hand brake?  No wonder the CC isn't connected with the hand brake system.  Stupid stupid stupid.

Whatever.  I'll continue to set the handbrake when temporarily stopped.  Keeping the foot brake depressed is against the rules in the Highway Code.  Flipping it into Park is an idea but it's easier to set the hand brake.

Mick

[FROSTYBALLS]

9 minutes ago, Mike J. said:

I like the simple handbrake - most new cars now have electric ones

Although electric parking brakes are becoming common, think the manual handbrake is more common. We change our cars every three years or so, and have yet to have an electric parking brake.

[Heidfirst]

2 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Although electric parking brakes are becoming common, think the manual handbrake is more common. 

If it hasn't already that situation is rapidly changing as models are replaced e.g. the new Auris & RAV4 will switch to EPB from the mechanical in the old. Same with VAG etc.

[Mike J.]

2 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

 …. e.g. the new Auris & RAV4 will switch to EPB from the mechanical in the old.

You can add the Hybrid C-HR, which already has one - it was my courtesy car 2 days ago.

[FROSTYBALLS]

The sales of Toyota GB's best selling models Aygo and Yaris, together with the current Auris and Auris Touring Sport currently far outstrip those with epb's  - in excess of 65,000 sales for 2017 and in excess of 25,000 January to April 2018 representing 64% of UK sales for both periods. The Aygo and Yaris alone account for over 50% of UK sales.

Yes, collective sales of models with epb's may get near to or exceed these figures for 2019, but that is next year …..

[Heidfirst]

14 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

The sales of Toyota GB's best selling models Aygo and Yaris, together with the current Auris and Auris Touring Sport currently far outstrip those with epb's  - in excess of 65,000 sales for 2017 and in excess of 25,000 January to April 2018 representing 64% of UK sales for both periods. The Aygo and Yaris alone account for over 50% of UK sales.

Yes, collective sales of models with epb's may get near to or exceed these figures for 2019, but that is next year …..

but other manufacturers with larger market shares (VW, Ford, Opel/Vauxhall etc.) are already further down the road with the switch than Toyota are. I doubt that anybody has the total market figures for it but it would be interesting to see.

Interestingly the Corsa, new Fiesta & new Polo haven't switched whereas Astra/Focus/Golf & above have so perhaps the cost of EPBs in small/cheap cars is  currently prohibitive?

[FROSTYBALLS]

As regards the Corsa, PSA are looking to introduce a new Corsa next year that shares platforms with the 208/C3, to reduce the licence fees it currently pays GM. 

[Heidfirst]

The current Corsa is, of course, a few years old (2014>) whereas the new Fiesta (2017) & Polo (2018) aren't. The 208 has an EPB so presumably a new Corsa will then too.

[Mick F]

EPB stands for Electric/Electronic Parking Brake.

Parking Brake????  That terminology makes my blood boil. 

Yes, you can and should use them when "parking", but what about waiting?  What about stopping at junctions?  What about waiting in a queue of traffic?  What about emergency use when all else fails?

If all we needed was a device to lock the wheels when parked, all we would need is a gearbox lock like we have P with automatics.

Read the highway code and see if it mentions "Parking Brake".

Mick.

[Heidfirst]

you can use them as emergency brake & yes, when stopped at junctions, queues of traffic. & I always park my car in gear anyway ... no need for a lock on a manual.

[bathtub tom]

I used to leave my car in gear (sloping driveway and a tendency for the handbrake to 'freeze' on in Winter). Then the missus learnt to drive! She'd get in the car, operate the starter and the car would lurch forward. The starter suffered this misuse for quite some time before declaring enough.

[mrpj]

Ah, but if it's termed a "parking brake" then it mustn't be used when stopped at a junction, traffic lights, queue of traffic etc.. It is obligitary, then, to sit there with the footbrake on and blind the driver(s) behind. Particularly at night!

I wonder if there will ever be alternative name for the footbrake?

[Mick F]

Very nicely put.

I wonder if "parking brake" is an Americanism?  As I say, there's no mention of parking brake in the Highway Code.

I was driving this morning, and put the energy monitor on the screen.  Yes, the EV switches off when the footbrake is depressed, but not when the handbrake by itself is set.  EV goes off in Neutral and Park of course, so maybe we should select Neutral and set the handbrake just like you would/should do in a normal manual car.

However, I cannot see an issue with leaving it in Drive.  It's not as if you'd be sitting for very long in that position, so I will carry on setting the HANDbrake in Drive as usual.

Mick.

[Heidfirst]

3 minutes ago, Mick F said:

I wonder if "parking brake" is an Americanism?  As I say, there's no mention of parking brake in the Highway Code.

I think most Americans call it an e-brake ("e" as in emergency rather than electric/electronic). Of course the majority of them also drive automatics & leave it in Drive with their foot on the brake at lights, junctions, queues ...