Long stops in traffic- Best practice

[gabemc1]

Hi everybody. 

My first post here 😁

I should be getting my new Yaris Icon Tech at the end of this week. I've got a couple of questions before I start driving it. 

What should be the best practice for long stops in traffic (red lighs, jams, etc) . On my usual commute route, I have 2-3 traffic lights that last +2-3 min, depending on the traffic. I know some cars cut off the engine when stationary ( start - stop ), some cut off the engine when the handbrake is on(so you don't have to keep the foot break pressed) while some don't. I could not find any advice or any information about this in the handbook manual. I currently drive a Vauxhall Astra automatic, and I usually switch to P and Handbrake when stuck in traffic as the handbreak does not cut the engine off. What would be the best for the new Hybrid?

1. D and foot brake
2. D and Hand Break
3. P and Hand Break
4. N and Hand Break

Sorry if this has been replied before. 

Thanks,

Gabe. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Hello Gabriel - welcome to Toyota Owners Club.

Presume you will have the petrol CVT which doesn't have stop/start.

[gabemc1]

Yeah. The 1.5 Petrol Hybrid. No start-stop, that's good. I believe the same applies on CVT as on my 4-speed Astra. When in D, the car will slowly move forward. But does the handbrake cause any damage to either transmission or the break itself if the foot brake is not applied when in D? Does the torque converter take all the load? 

It's a lot more convenient to have a "break" at a stop light rather than keeping the foot down for 3 minutes, but I'm more "concerned" about my stop lights blinding the drivers behind. 

 

[Jonmartin]

Mines a hybrid, I use N and handbrake, I was taught to use the handbrake and select neutral. That way my foot can’t slip off the brake and possibly rear end the car in front. Also, with the hand brake on, if I’m rear ended there is less chance of me rear ending the car in front. And at night, if you sit with your foot on the brake, you dazzle the driver behind with your brake lights.

[Mick F]

We tend to leave our Hybrid in D with the handbrake on.  Sometimes used N but never P as you have to go through R, and the reversing light comes on as you go through.

Having drive automatics, I would always leave it in D with the handbrake on, so I do the same with our Hybrid.  I suppose if the stop was for a few minutes, N would be better than D.

...................... but never P when in traffic.

Mick.

[Mike J.]

2 hours ago, gabemc1 said:

 

1. D and foot brake
2. D and Hand brake
3. P and Hand brake
4. N and Hand brake

 

First of all, the hybrid is a stop start car with respect to the petrol part.

In my Yaris hybrid I do this for your items:

1) only for a short stop when the engine is running so that the Battery can be charged.

2) never - you are wasting energy as the electric motor is pulling against the rear brakes.

3) only in long term queues and when parked up.

4) used on most stops.

[gabemc1]

Let's take this scenario. Battery full, D then come to a stop. Put it in N from D. Does the ICE start? Does it stay in EV? How long can it stay in N (on EV) before the ICE starts?

 

Sorry if it sounds stupid, I'm trying to learn 🙂

[Jonmartin]

Come to a stop and select N and apply the hand brake, everything stops. Unless the ICE is cold. It’ll stay in N with nothing happening until you reselect D. As you pull away, you will probably be in EV until you pass about thirty, then the ICE kicks in. Unless you accelerate harder then you’ll be into ICE straight away. It’ll make more sense as you drive it, as a lot depends on engine temperature and general conditions. You will also find that driving a hybrid as opposed to an ICE car, is very different. Personally I have taken a few months, but am finding it a much more relaxing drive.

[Cjohnston1982]

7 hours ago, Jonmartin said:

Mines a hybrid, I use N and handbrake, I was taught to use the handbrake and select neutral.

Selecting N in a Toyota hybrid whilst stationary will slowly deplete the drive Battery and wastes energy if the engine is on as the Battery won’t be charged at all. It does state something about this in the manual.

If the Battery gets low you should get a message telling you to engage P mode so the battery can be recharged. If it gets too low it can damage the battery though this is rare. 

Stupidly if the manual parking brake is applied the electric motor will continue to push against it rather than deactivating. 

The best practise if waiting for a longish period is probably to engage P mode and maybe the manual handbrake as well.

[Bumblebee16]

I stay in D and use the handbrake.  

The Battery continues to charge, and there is no “engine pulling” against the handbrake. 

[Mike J.]

1 hour ago, Bumblebee16 said:

The battery continues to charge, and there is no “engine pulling” against the handbrake. 

On my 2013 Yaris hybrid the electric motor is always pulling against the handbrake in D. To check yours, with the handbrake on, go into neutral and then back into drive and the rear of the car will dip - that is the pull.

if you bought the car for efficiency, allowing the electric motor to fight against the handbrake is a mistake.

[Mick F]

Not a mistake.  I do it deliberately.

The OP asks about LONG stops in traffic.  How long is long?

Generally, I don't select P due to the stupid reversing light.  Why there isn't a delay on the light coming on, I don't know.  All it needs is half a second delay.  Having the reversing light coming on would rather upset me if I saw the car in front of me bringing its reversing light on, as is smacks of the driver not knowing what he's doing.

Also stupid in the extreme, is the handbrake not disengaging the electric drive.  Despite that, for normal stops in traffic, I will continue to stay in D, but how long is long? .................. and does it matter if you stay in D?  I say it matters nothing unless you are stopped on a steep downhill.

Mick.

[Mike J.]

1 hour ago, Mick F said:

Not a mistake.  I do it deliberately.

You missed the context - it is a mistake if you want to be efficient (use less power) and, I would imagine, a person that buys a hybrid has their eye on efficiency.

[Mick F]

Sorry.

I still think that it doesn't matter.  I wonder how much efficiency is lost by leaving the stick in D for a 3mins? Putting it in N doesn't do anything, but I suppose it's not losing anything like in D.

Last week, during our heatwave, I was waiting (patiently) stopped on the street for Mrs Mick F to finish at the bank in town.  I left the car in P but had the Auto Aircon down at 17degC.  After ten minutes of (patient) waiting, the Battery had gone down from six bars to two.  I actually thought that that was a good trade .......... Aircon keeping me cool enough with no engine running.

Mick.

[gabemc1]

Thank you all for your take on this. I will also ask the dealer when I pick the car up just to see their "official" advice on it. Will keep you updated. Thanks again 🙂

[FROSTYBALLS]

22 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Presume you will have the petrol CVT which doesn't have stop/start.

The presumption was based on the fact that the current Yaris is only available in either petrol or hybrid. The petrol Yaris doesn't have stop/start, which was deleted from the third generation Yaris due to cost. 

The following Toyota article states: If you’re in stop-start traffic, don’t put the car in neutral (‘N’) when stationary, as electricity will not be generated and the hybrid Battery will discharge.

See http://blog.toyota.co.uk/hybrid-driving-technique-toyotas-top-tips-for-achieving-the-best-fuel-economy-in-your-hybrid

[gabemc1]

21 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

The presumption was based on the fact that the current Yaris is only available in either petrol or hybrid. The petrol Yaris doesn't have stop/start, which was deleted from the third generation Yaris due to cost. 

The following Toyota article states: If you’re in stop-start traffic, don’t put the car in neutral (‘N’) when stationary, as electricity will not be generated and the hybrid battery will discharge.

See http://blog.toyota.co.uk/hybrid-driving-technique-toyotas-top-tips-for-achieving-the-best-fuel-economy-in-your-hybrid

I would be really interested to see Toyota's take on this. As N is no good for the battery usage, P would probably do the same, and the engine pulls against the handbrake in D, the only option would be D and foot brake - which is a bit inconvenient at night for the other drivers. 

[Mike J.]

47 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

The following Toyota article states: If you’re in stop-start traffic, don’t put the car in neutral (‘N’) when stationary, as electricity will not be generated and the hybrid battery will discharge.

See http://blog.toyota.co.uk/hybrid-driving-technique-toyotas-top-tips-for-achieving-the-best-fuel-economy-in-your-hybrid

Note it doesn't mention whether you should inconvenience people with brake lights or waste energy with the handbrake or use P. Our postings are trying to help out where the blog fails. Please read my 4 listed answers that should cater for most eventualities. In the blog case, I would handbrake and move to N and if the engine starts would try and stop it with EV mode and/or turn off the heating. If engine continues (the Battery is thus low), then I would flip to D with handbrake (as it is already on) and footbrake (to turn off electric motor) - this situation rarely happens in my experience of Ipswich commuter traffic. This method will bring best economy but maybe too much for non-geeks.

[Mike J.]

18 minutes ago, gabemc1 said:

…. P would probably do the same ...

P is good for Battery charging and I move to it if traffic stopped for minutes, but if you move the 'gear' selector slowly, then the reversing lights flash - worrying the person behind.

[gabemc1]

2 minutes ago, Mike J. said:

P is good for battery charging and I move to it if traffic stopped for minutes

How about this?

2 hours ago, Mick F said:

 I left the car in P but had the Auto Aircon down at 17degC.  After ten minutes of (patient) waiting, the battery had gone down from six bars to two. 

 

I'm still trying to get my head around this so don't be to harsh please 🙂

[FROSTYBALLS]

6 minutes ago, Mike J. said:

 Our postings are trying to help out where the blog fails. Please read my 4 listed answers that should cater for all eventualities. 

The responses have been read.  As the OP wants Toyota's take, that is provided in the blog article, whether or not, in the opinion of some, the take may not go far enough. As the forum has no connection with Toyota, if the OP wishes to get further information/advice from Toyota then their best option would be to raise a query on either Toyota UK blog, or with Toyota GB customer relations. 

[gabemc1]

@FROSTYBALLS, don't get me wrong. I really appreciate your advice, I was just curious on their "official" response. That was all. I wouldn't have asked here just for the sake of an argument :). I'm new to Hybrids just wanted a bit of a heads-up with some scenarios I face on my daily commute.

[Jonmartin]

5 minutes ago, gabemc1 said:

@FROSTYBALLS, don't get me wrong. I really appreciate your advice, I was just curious on their "official" response. That was all. I wouldn't have asked here just for the sake of an argument :). I'm new to Hybrids just wanted a bit of a heads-up with some scenarios I face on my daily commute.

There is a lot of opinions with regards how to drive a hybrid. My advice would be to read all the advice and then take your time when you get the car. And above all ENJOY IT. 

[Mike J.]

42 minutes ago, gabemc1 said:

How about this?

I'm still trying to get my head around this so don't be to harsh please 🙂

The beauty of our Toyota hybrids is that almost everything is electric and there are no auxiliary belts to fail. The aircon is all electric, the power steering is electric, the brake servo assistance is electric (you will hear a pump start nearly every time the driver's door is opened for this system), the water pump is electric so you can get cabin heat if the engine is temporarily off (but car on). Given this, the Battery will run down (the engine will then start up to fill up the Battery to a low-ish level and repeat ad-infinitum) especially if the aircon is on and you are parked up with car on.

Note that the system will never let the traction Battery become depleted as it is used to start the petrol engine!

[FROSTYBALLS]

16 minutes ago, gabemc1 said:

@FROSTYBALLS, don't get me wrong. I really appreciate your advice, I was just curious on their "official" response

Which is no problem, and Toyota's published opinion is in the UK blog article. If that doesn't go far enough for you, rather than rely on the opinions of forum members, some of which appear to be conflicting, then the best option would be to raise a query on either Toyota UK blog or with Toyota Customer Relations. The fact that brake lights may or may not be illuminated probably doesn't matter to Toyota. 

You said previously that you have checked the handbook/manual. Was this the abbreviated owners manual that is supplied with the car? One can download the full owners manual which may provide s bit more info. See https://www.toyota.co.uk/tme#/my-toyota/eManual

No argument has arisen, so don't concern yourself on that score, and feel free to raise whatever queries you have.