Long stops in traffic- Best practice

[gabemc1]

It was actually the full manual. I wrote earlier to the Customer service and they said: "ask your local dealer😑". Will probably raise the question when I pick it up. 

25 minutes ago, Mike J. said:

The beauty of our Toyota hybrids is that almost everything is electric and there are no auxiliary belts to fail. The aircon is all electric, the power steering is electric, the brake servo assistance is electric (you will hear a pump start nearly every time the driver's door is opened for this system), the water pump is electric so you can get cabin heat if the engine is temporarily off (but car on). Given this, the battery will run down (the engine will then start up to fill up the battery to a low-ish level and repeat ad-infinitum) especially if the aircon is on and you are parked up with car on.

Note that the system will never let the traction battery become depleted as it is used to start the petrol engine!

No belts. That's good to know. 😄

[Mike J.]

11 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

The fact that brake lights may or may not be illuminated probably doesn't matter to Toyota.

But it matters elsewhere.

Highway Code Rule 114 mentions this:

"In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again."

[FROSTYBALLS]

8 minutes ago, Mike J. said:

But it matters elsewhere.

Highway Code Rule 114 mentions this:

"In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again."

In which case, communicate that to Toyota.

[Mick F]

1 hour ago, gabemc1 said:

How about this?

I'm still trying to get my head around this so don't be to harsh please 🙂

The airconditioner is electrically driven, and in Park, all that's available for all any system is the main Battery.  Had it got down below two bars, no doubt the engine would have flashed up to recharge it.

As for the Toyota take on this issue with being stopped in traffic, it doesn't advise anything at all, just tells you what the problem is in N.  They don't tell you what your SHOULD do.

Mick.

[gabemc1]

Thank you. Will keep that in mind!

[Cjohnston1982]

The Aygo X-shift (semi-auto) deactivates the clutch when the handbrake is on, I really don’t understand why the Hybrid doesn’t do the same when the manual handbrake is used rather than leaving the electric motor to ‘fight’ with the handbrake.

Anyway the Toyota handbook should have been clearer in what to do in stationary traffic and the implications of leaving the car on in N mode.

Basically I use the foodbrake when at traffic lights and use the P button for longer waits.

[Mick F]

1 hour ago, Cjohnston1982 said:

Basically I use the foodbrake when at traffic lights and use the P button for longer waits.

Sad, but that's what far too many folk do.  There's no incentive to do anything else until you realise that we'd all be blinded except for the few behind those who obey the rules.

Read the Highway Code.

Sorry, but it's a hobby horse of mine.  I've very nearly - on more than one occasion - got out of the car and knocked at the window of the car in front and asked them to set the handbrake and take their foot off the brake.  It's fine maybe in a city environment with it being almost daylight with all the street-lights on, but out in the rural areas, when it's dark, it's dark ..... and all you do is get blinded by big bright brake lights of the car in front sitting at junctions.

Sorry for being grumpy about this!

Mick.

[Mick F]

PS:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/regulation/27/made

Item 11 and note item 4 too.

Highway Code.  Must Not means it's illegal.

Rule 114 states:

You must not

• use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

3 hours ago, Mick F said:

 I've very nearly - on more than one occasion - got out of the car and knocked at the window of the car in front and asked them to set the handbrake and take their foot off the brake.

Which could easily develop into an instance of road rage especially if the other driver strongly objects to such action.

Please return to the topic subject.

[Cjohnston1982]

4 hours ago, Mick F said:

Sorry, but it's a hobby horse of mine.  I've very nearly - on more than one occasion - got out of the car and knocked at the window of the car in front and asked them to set the handbrake and take their foot off the brake.  It's fine maybe in a city environment with it being almost daylight with all the street-lights on, but out in the rural areas, when it's dark, it's dark ..... and all you do is get blinded by big bright brake lights of the car in front sitting at junctions.

Sorry for being grumpy about this!

Mick.

Ok then maybe I should have mentioned I only do this at night in the city where it’s almost daylight with all the street lamps on.

I would imagine most junctions that have traffic lights would be lit anyway and besides I’ll end up being blinded by the traffic light itself 🙂

I have more to say about knocking on car window, especially if it’s dark but we need to return to the topic.

 

[Mick F]

Sorry guys. 

it's a pet hate of mine, but then I'm a bit obsessive about stuff and I have issues about people not obeying the rules or not thinking about others.  I said I'd very nearly knocked on a window, but I haven't, and I doubt I ever would.

Just please please please, think about drivers and passengers in the vehicle behind you when you keep your foot on the brake.

Thanks, Mick.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Mick F said:

Sorry guys. 

it's a pet hate of mine, but then I'm a bit obsessive about stuff and I have issues about people not obeying the rules or not thinking about others.  I said I'd very nearly knocked on a window, but I haven't, and I doubt I ever would.

Just please please please, think about drivers and passengers in the vehicle behind you when you keep your foot on the brake.

Thanks, Mick.

I do agree with you overall. If I don't need to have my brake lights on, I don't.

However, its important to recognise that the MUST NOT RULES are general, whilst the attached SHOULD section is being implied specific to stationary traffic for a reason.

Yes the MUST NOT Rules ALWAYS override it, ALWAYS.

But the whole reason for having the "SHOULD" section for "stationary queuing traffic" at all, is to allow for the understanding that there may be known exceptions, otherwise you wouldn't even have it in there, you would leave it out or change it to MUST.

They(department for transport) obviously foresee some, albeit rare, situations where by there is an allowance for constantly displaying your brake lights while stationary.
-Perhaps they were thinking that in very heavy weather, where visibility is so poor that the driver will behind benefit from seeing your brake lights.  
-Or perhaps they believe that under certain road conditions, surface, hazards or other measures that the Handbrake isn't considered satisfactory enough to safely restrain the car.
-Perhaps it was for mechanical reasons to cover vehicles who's handbrake wont operate in a certain fashion or conditions, or have no alternative but to display brake lights.

I don't know for sure, but whatever the reasons, again the Department for transport has felt it necessary to specifically put in a SHOULD(Advisory) clause to allow for discretionary decisions, in exceptional circumstance, specifically for stationary traffic, to allow drivers to keep the brake lights on when justifiable. ...<breath>

So, with that being there, Toyota could very well argue that the systems they employ on their cars, take into consideration all these different things, and keep brake lights on or off, when stationary, in order to provide maximum safety, in line with the Highway code, and its rules and advisories.

Of course they would have to prove it works, which is another matter altogether .... 

[Mick F]

We still have the MUST NOT bit.

I get dazzled and uncomfortable by brake lights being held on at junctions.

 

You must not

• use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users

 

[Cjohnston1982]

On 6/19/2018 at 11:17 AM, Mike J. said:

....the battery will run down (the engine will then start up to fill up the battery to a low-ish level and repeat ad-infinitum) especially if the aircon is on and you are parked up with car on.

Note that the system will never let the traction battery become depleted as it is used to start the petrol engine!

Getting back to the topic if you don’t mind. The engine will not charge the traction Battery if the transmission is set to N. If the Battery becomes too low an message will appear on the screen asking the driver to put the car into D or P I believe. If this is not done then the traction Battery will become discharged to a point that it may become damaged.

Secondly, the traction battery is not used to start the car up. It uses a 12v battery much like a normal car. I had a Nissan Leaf and that had a 12v battery to ‘start’ the car. If this becomes flat the car won’t start even if the traction battery is full.

[Mike J.]

1 hour ago, Cjohnston1982 said:

Secondly, the traction battery is not used to start the car up. It uses a 12v battery much like a normal car. I had a Nissan Leaf and that had a 12v battery to ‘start’ the car. If this becomes flat the car won’t start even if the traction battery is full.

I never said the traction Battery started the car! It does start the petrol engine though, as I mentioned.