Gen 2/Gen 3/Auris/CT200H - Which would you chose?

[Otispunkmeyer]

Well, some test drives today sorts a few things.

Both cars were grey, 60 odd thou on the clocks, T-spirit Gen 3 Prius'. 1 car had mismatched tyres all round and some quite bad stone chips on the bonnet (like a lot, down to the white). Same car had a very dirty engine bay. Car 2 had some billy-no-brand tyres on the front that looked like they were perishing. The brakes could have done with a good clean as well (rusty and decent lip on the front discs so don't know how much life is left). Car was also flat (12V batt flat) but once jumped, it was fine. Both cars seemed to have healthy HV packs with around 212 Volts and <0.05V cell differences.

Drove them both. Both drove very well; smooth, quiet, easy. Really felt "at home" in one.

I have to say, comparing back to the Auris, I think I'd take the Prius any day of the week, it just feels more cohesive.

Absolutely loved all the different displays in the dash!

So thats it now.... I want a Prius and I think it's probably worth a little extra in the budget to get one.

 

 

ETA: Should you feel a bit of vibration through the wheel at motorway speed? I got up to 70 and I thought maybe it was a wheel imbalance, but then it felt more like the surface of the road coming through the column.

Unfortunately, both places with the cars didn't seem to keen to take my Abarth in PX. I can see why, it might be a bit hard for them to move on and it wouldn't appear in their valuation tools for some reason. So if I can't PX at a big dealer who can just punt out to auction i'll have to sell it privately/we-buy-any-car first.

 

[kithmo]

From your description of the state of the tyres, I'd say the vibration was due them.

[Otispunkmeyer]

Perhaps. On the first car I wasn't able to get out of urban speeds really. The wheel never sat straight, but I'v seen that before when cheap and/or mismatched tyres are used on the front. We had it on our Mazda 3; some crappy chinese rubber, once I wore them out and fitted something proper, the wheel angle returned to centre.

The other car at least didnt have mis-matching tyres across the axels, but they literally had no brand name on them! and the outer shoulders were heavily cracked.

 

I've found another car in Tamworth which I'll go see after work. Its at a main dealer so PX'ing shouldnt be an issue save for the value they give me. I'll have to spend a bit extra, but I think it'll be worth it if I can up the usage to 3 years rather than 2. Its a 59 plate, 48k miles and up for £9,999.

[Devon Aygo]

10 hours ago, Otispunkmeyer said:

I'm talking about an Auris here.

This one: https://www.motors.co.uk/car-50027245/?i=2&amp;m=srs

I've seen a number of T4 and T-Spirit like that and I presume they're not imports because they made the Auris Hybrid in Derby. The Auris I missed out on:

https://www.motors.co.uk/car-49554445/?i=0&amp;m=srs

has a much more flush system and is the only one I've seen like that. 

The 12 plate T4 has a factory head unit the car is fitted with the Toyota Touch head unit ( "Go" navigation was optional ) the 61 plate has the earlier nav unit

The earlier unit is quite old and uses DVD rom to update, it may not do full postcode mapping

The later unit is updated via USB and will do full postcode mapping

[Otispunkmeyer]

Bit of decision...

Auris T4 at 88k miles. 12 plate. Has nav. Can retrofit CC for cheap. £7200

Prius T-Spirit at 48k miles. 59 plate (1st of sept). Has everything. £9999

I do want a Prius, but that auris is hard to ignore at nearly 3 grand cheaper. The question is when I come to move it on in 3 years... Will the Prius be similarly more valuable? Or will it get knocked on age as it's already 9 years old.

The auris will get knocked on miles because everyone seems scared of the 100,000 mile mark and it will be well over that in 3 years.

[PeteB]

Bit of a dilemma - I'm hopeless at predicting relative values.  But the mileage you mention may be a significant factor.

Personally, I'd choose a Prius every time, like you partly for the displays, but having experienced HUD I don't ever want to be without it again.

If you're not trading in you should be able to negotiate a bit of a discount, and maybe full tank, floor mats etc.

[kithmo]

Priuses seem to hold second hand value better than the Auris. The 59 plate Prius seems about right in price for the mileage, although higher mile ones can be found for less. The 59 plate (pre facelift) Prius sat nav can only be updated by the dealer at a cost of around £120 last time I checked ( a couple of years back), so an aftermarket nav is a better bet. Prius will return better mpg than the Auris but whether you can claw back nearly £3k in fuel savings is doubtful, unless you do mega miles. You would probably be better off, financially with the Auris, but get more satisfaction from the Prius, it's up to you.

[Catlover]

I drive my Prius (gen3 now Gen4) and the wifes Auris Hybrid (which used to be mine). Much prefer the Prius, just feels "right", difficult to explain but feels right.

My Gen3 Prius was a 59 plate, registered 2010. Lovely to drive, sold it whilst done 66.02 mpg for its last 2400 miles. I liked the fact the CD player could also store to a hard drive, so I had about 20 of my favourite cd's accessible without the hassle of changing, getting out of cases etc. As Keith said above, updating the sat nav map was expensive - dealer quoted £250. It was then that I knew why the sat nav had never been updated in its life!  That's ok so long as you not looking for an address that's new within the last 8 years, or in my case, crossing the River Mersey between Widnes and Runcorn, but the sat nave looking like you in a submarine!  My Gen3 - I part exchanged it with 110,000 on the clock and running like a dream - 10 service stamps, 8 from a Toyota dealer. You may get a good one, 2010, with 70k-80k for about £8000, especially private. I bought mine privately, but took care to check out the servicing record.

[PeteB]

33 minutes ago, Catlover said:

...I liked the fact the CD player could also store to a hard drive, so I had about 20 of my favourite cd's accessible without the hassle of changing, getting out of cases etc.

As Keith said above, updating the sat nav map was expensive - dealer quoted £250...

I prefer the USB option.  I've out all my CDs plus songs bought online, and keep a backup on my PC, Laptop, phone, iPad &etc.  USB memory stick are so cheap, I keep a duplicate up to date for loan cars, or in case something happens to my 'live' stick.

Added bonus is you can backup locations in your in-car SatNav plus phone book.  When I got my Gen 4, they were restored in seconds.  Also means when I drive a compatible Toyota, I can load up my locations and have my music available.  Before handing it back I go into the menus and select 'delete personal data'.

My nieghbour has just bought a C-HR Excel, and that has no CD player.  His dealer put all his CDs onto a memory stick for him.

[Ten Ninety]

 

5 hours ago, Otispunkmeyer said:

Bit of decision...

Auris T4 at 88k miles. 12 plate. Has nav. Can retrofit CC for cheap. £7200

Prius T-Spirit at 48k miles. 59 plate (1st of sept). Has everything. £9999

Is it me, or have Auris HSD prices hardened a lot post-dieselgate? I'm sure they were a lot less, a couple of years ago? That seems like ridiculous money for a T4 with that kind of mileage, yet a quick look on Auto Trader seems to suggest it's not far off the 'going rate' these days. Happy days, as I'll be getting rid of my wife's 2010 T-Spirit shortly!

I'd take that Prius every time. It's a much more reasonable mileage and is likely to be a better car in pretty much every way apart from image, handling and interior build quality. 

[danowat]

7 hours ago, Otispunkmeyer said:

Bit of decision...

Auris T4 at 88k miles. 12 plate. Has nav. Can retrofit CC for cheap. £7200

Prius T-Spirit at 48k miles. 59 plate (1st of sept). Has everything. £9999

I do want a Prius, but that auris is hard to ignore at nearly 3 grand cheaper. The question is when I come to move it on in 3 years... Will the Prius be similarly more valuable? Or will it get knocked on age as it's already 9 years old.

The auris will get knocked on miles because everyone seems scared of the 100,000 mile mark and it will be well over that in 3 years.

Prius every time. 

[Catlover]

7 hours ago, Otispunkmeyer said:

Bit of decision...

Auris T4 at 88k miles. 12 plate. Has nav. Can retrofit CC for cheap. £7200

Prius T-Spirit at 48k miles. 59 plate (1st of sept). Has everything. £9999

I do want a Prius, but that auris is hard to ignore at nearly 3 grand cheaper. The question is when I come to move it on in 3 years... Will the Prius be similarly more valuable? Or will it get knocked on age as it's already 9 years old.

The auris will get knocked on miles because everyone seems scared of the 100,000 mile mark and it will be well over that in 3 years.

That is exactly the way I was thinking in May 2017..... I cant see why I would pay £2.5k - £3k more for a Prius then a Auris Hybrid.   So I got an Auris Hybrid. Loved driving it, but disappointed that I didn't get a Prius. So in Feb this year, I saw a Prius for sale privately, went for it, got it and passed the Auris to the wife - who is very happy with the car and being an automatic.

The Prius IS really streets ahead of the Auris Hybrid. Your choice, but I glad I got the Prius....and look what its done for me....gone from a Gen3 to a Gen4 within 6 months. Hope they don't bring out a Gen5 any time soon.

[Otispunkmeyer]

back to the drawing board on this

The Auris I went to see was ok, but they weren't sure about retrofitting cruise control and I wasn't sure either after I looked at the cover on the steering wheel and saw it didn't have those two access flaps. It also had mismatched tyres (I hate hate hate that!) and the engine sounded gruff. They also offered insultingly low PX on my car. So thats out. 

The Prius was, in fairness, much nicer. Mechanically sound (I presumed) as it had only ever seen the inside of the Toyota dealer for any and all work done during the previous owners time. It had a glovebox full of invoices which I checked out on the test drive. Unfortunately the exterior and interior were a little tatty; scratches all over the centre console, door cards and glovebox. Every single panel on the exterior (bar the roof and bonnet) had at least one decent scuff or scrape on it. The rear bumper was actually badly cracked down the passenger side rear quarter and the clips holding it in place had perished. The rear bumper had all sorts including some bright green paint, presumably from a bollard or other car the owner reversed into!

Apparently previous owner was an older lady of significant means (hence no expense spared on maintenance). Unfortunately not too good at spacial awareness!

In fairness the dealership were aware of this and are planning on plastic welding the cracked bumper. But what level of repair they'd affect on the multitude of scuffs and scratches on all the doors etc I don't know. Its a black car so this stuff stood out like a sore thumb once they'd pulled it out the lot. I do expect a level of cosmetic damage, after-all it is a 9 year old car, but this did have more than its fair share!

I tried to get them to budge on the £9999 price and the £8000 PX but they wouldn't. Decent smart repair on the corner would be about £300 based off experience and the rest of the car would need a good days work with the machine polisher to fix the multitude of scratches (another £400-600). So whilst I suspect they have some meat in the car, they do have quite a bit of work to do on it so can see where they are coming from. 

As good as it was. Putting in an additional £2k to get it just didn't sit right with me so I had to back away. I only just spent £10k on the Abarth in October, so I was, best case, looking to do a straight swap or perhaps spend a few hundred. I wish I hadn't bought the Abarth now.... they are valuable little cars, to the right people, but the right people are hard to come by.

 

[PeteB]

17 minutes ago, Otispunkmeyer said:

.... I wish I hadn't bought the Abarth now.... 

 

been there, done that.

After a series of Gen 1 & 2 Prius, in 2011 I bought a brand new Yaris Petrol 1.33 T-Spirit with 6-speed Multi-Mode Transmission and the protection pack for £14k.

Big mistake.  Unknown to me they'd swapped the brilliant digital instruments for analogue (I drove one a few months older which still had the digitals only about 3 months earlier while my old Prius was serviced) - I really, really, really hated them.

Worst of all, I quickly realised how much i hated not having a Hybrid after 9 years and 200,000 miles in them.  Just over a year later, I got the chance of a 6 month old 3½k Gen 3 Prius demonstrator [2012] for £18k, so I had it - best price I could get for the Yaris (17½k on the clock) was just £7k!!  [ended up letting my ex have it for £6k - yes, I know, I'm quite barking].

If I'd never experienced hybrids, I'd have been very happy with the MMT (unlike many who seem to hate it) - the 1.33 engine was incredibly flexible, and so smooth/quiet at idle I frequently tried to start it when it was already running (luckily, the car was clever enough not to operate the starter motor).

 

[wass]

I've owned a gen2prius and aCT200 ( which is essentially , an auris with a posh party dress but less space). I would go for the gen 3 prius without thinking twice. The prius has been designed to do the job whilst being practical. The CT200 is stylish but not very useful. The gen 2 is about bomb proof. They use the prius as taxis , that speaks volumes.

[Otispunkmeyer]

well, had a couple of missed calls, voicemails and a text of the dealer... seems that they can budge on PX price. When will they learn? You can't say no, we can't do anything twice and then when I've mentally checked out, come back with "well, maybe we can...".

 

[PeteB]

4 hours ago, wass said:

...They use the prius as taxis , that speaks volumes.

I can vouch for that.

In 2006 I changed careers - after almost 30 years in IT, I joined a small start-up London Private Hire firm (they didn't like the term "minicab" - it conjured images of a 20-year-old Cortina that smelled of kebabs!) with just 5 Gen 2 Prius.

After a really enjoyable 12 months and 46,000 miles behind the wheel I moved into the office as they now had about 40 cars and needed a Fleet Manager.  When I left at the end of 2010 they had nearly 300 cars and drivers (over 600 today) and my office team had grown to 6. 

By then they had swapped most of the Gen 2s for Gen 3s.  Both models were astonishingly reliable, and one manager bought one at the end of it's 3 year lease with around 100k on the clock, and it gave him no trouble.  Had I needed one myself I'd have happily considered buying an end of lease PHV too - not sure I'd consider that with any other type of car.

I continued to do some database and other admin from my new home in Norfolk until I retired four years ago.

[Otispunkmeyer]

a little late in the day perhaps, but is buying a 9 year old (or nearly 9 year old) Mk3 Prius sensible?

 

I mean the car has 67,000 miles. Which isn't bad. Full service history (although they've flip-flopped between toyota and an independent, presumably on major-minor service grounds) and so long as the Battery health checks out ok, there shouldn't be much of anything to be drastically wrong?

My other option is a grand in my back pocket and I roll around in a Peugeot 208GTi (I know, I know....french, but I do like them). 

[danowat]

7 minutes ago, Otispunkmeyer said:

a little late in the day perhaps, but is buying a 9 year old (or nearly 9 year old) Mk3 Prius sensible?

I mean the car has 67,000 miles. Which isn't bad. Full service history (although they've flip-flopped between toyota and an independent, presumably on major-minor service grounds) and so long as the battery health checks out ok, there shouldn't be much of anything to be drastically wrong?

Sounds good to me.

There isn't much that can go wrong, much less ancillaries to go wrong compared to a normal car, ICE is less stressed, and the transmission is almost bulletproof

[Otispunkmeyer]

I am hopefully going to go see it again tomorrow. I have to really as I have no car now! I sold it to Evans Halshaw. I didn't get quite what I wanted for it but close enough. I could have sold privately but I suspect I'd be waiting a while for the right buyer to turn up, all the while racking up the miles on the Abarth making it less appealing.

I have an OBDII dongle and the Dr Prius/Dr Hybrid app. I plan to perform some testing on the car before I buy it... I don't want to buy something with the Battery about to go. 

However, you'd hope at the mileage its at that things are generally kosher. I know at around 100,000 is when you start having to cast a curious eye over the whole powertrain.

[PeteB]

Any services done at a Toyota dealer should have free Hybrid Health Check, so look if see if there are some HHC certificates with the paperwork.  Each one extends the HV Battery warranty by one year.

See - https://www.toyota.co.uk/hybrid/hybrid-faq/batteries

Here is a sample of the HHC report from my previous car: http://www.biwel.com/pmb01/HHC.pdf 

[Otispunkmeyer]

Ok Will do. Bare in mind, the servicing whilst regular isn't fully Toyota. It is as follows:

2k, dealer, 7k dealer, 11k dealer, 23k indie, 33k dealer, 41k indie, 51k dealer, 58k indie, 67k indie

So the last two services, presumably the last 2 years, it has not seen the inside of a toyota dealer.

 

Very intrigued to use the Dr Prius app.... It can perform that test you just showed me (the quick test) to show temps, voltages, resistances and any error codes. It can also perform a more thorough test as follows:

Car on and in D. Push brake and accelerator together. Car is held stationary, engine charges the Battery. Battery is charged up and data is measured whilst doing so.

Then, car in R. Put the foot brake on to hold the car still. Put on auxillary loads like lights, AC, fans etc to achieve a roughly 6 Amp current draw. App will measure the data whilst the Battery is discharging. It will then report to you the battery condition or battery health. According to them 90+% is new condition. I would expect between 50 and 70% for fair to good condition. Apparently if it tends to 40 and below, its knackered (but there should be a warning by this point).

[Otispunkmeyer]

Ok

 

Deed is done. I discounted my second choice (pug 208GTi) when I noticed it had as many owners as its age in years. For me that is surely a sign that its a car with something a bit squiffy about it.

Went for another nose around the Prius and it all seems kosher. Had the Battery app do the tests and it passed with flying colours. No errors, voltages all good (both in terms of static voltage and the amount of drop/boost when discharging/charging at full power), internal resistances good, Battery temperature good. Then performed the life-left test and it was way better than I'd hoped. Nicely into the 70%'s on the health meaning the Battery is in good condition. I think for being 9 years old that is about as good as you can expect. 

 

Only blots on its mark sheet is the fact that whoever had it before had put winter tyres on it and left them on and the HUD doesn't appear to work..... The tyres have got maybe 4 mm on them. They should see me ok for a few weeks, but in this heat, they're surely going to wear out rather fast. The HUD I am not too bothered by, the speedo is right next to the &#33;Removed&#33; thing anyway! and hopefully its a little DIY job I can do later.

But that is it. I am now a Prius owner! 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Congratulations

[PeteB]

Congrats too.

Re HUD, did you try moving the display up & down in case it's just outside your field of view? 

I think if you press the HUD button till it goes off then press once more so it lights up the right hand steering wheel buttons move it up and down.  You can go through menus to do it but that's the quick way.

I'd expected it to be a fun gimmick when I got my Gen 3 Prius but quickly found it indispensable despite  the well placed main speedo. Also, it can display the energy graph as well as speed which is great.