Gen 3 2012 Prius T-Spirit - reliable?

[tdwuk]

Hi,

I am looking for a 2012 which I believe is Gen 3 T-Spirit Prius to replace my Toyota Corolla Verso 2009.

What should I look for in a Prius?  My budget is £10-11k and 2012 seems to be available at this price, is this too old?

How much mileage on the clock is too much?  I know it depends on the owner and service history.

Are they really reliable?

I am also considering a smaller Kia Ceed GDI 3 2015 but I am worried about the DCT gearbox coming from a Verso with a MMT gearbox.  Although the Kia has warranty for a few more years.

I would appreciate any input as I didn't research the Verso with MMT before I bought it and just took it in face value that it was Auto - problems ever since.

[danowat]

On 7/19/2018 at 2:11 PM, tdwuk said:

Are they really reliable?

Very.

[PeteB]

My last Prius was a 2012 T3.

2012 onward is a good move, as they made some worthwhile changes, like stiffening the chassis to deal with complaints of rattle and creaks, Daytime Running Lights, electric folding mirrors to name a few.

I chose a T3 because at the time it had 15" wheels whereas T4/Spirit had 17".  The 15" meant its CO2 was low enough to get a London Condensation Charge exemption at the time.  The only thing it didn't have that I really wanted was Cruise Control, but since only the switch was missing, my dealer fitted one and voila!

When I traded it for my Gen 4 Prius 2 years ago, it had done 60,000 trouble free miles and drove like new.

Like any car, there can be the odd one with a problem, but mostly they're very reliable, and lots of Prius go well above 100,000 with little or no problem.  An original Gen 1 Prius I had from 2002 to 2011 was still driving like new at 163,000 miles.

The so-called eCVT is not like any other CVT transmission, has far few moving parts, and is generally bullet proof.  Although it works in a very different way, it behave exactly like cars I've riven with real CVT gearboxes (with belts and cones inside), such as Nissan Micra, Honda Jazz, Honda Civic Hybrid and Honda Insight.

Worth a good test drive though, because while many love it (me included) some don't.  Driven with respect, it gives Rolls-Royce type smoothness.

[QuantumFireball]

The gearbox in the gen 3 Prius is a planetary gear set, totally different to any other type of auto box on the market and relatively simple. I haven't heard of them causing trouble so don't think you need to worry about that at all.

I have a 2012 Prius and it's been almost trouble-free. The only problem I've had is with the rear brake caliper guide pins seizing - due to their lack of use (as generative braking does a lot of the work), and the roads being salted in winter. Was relatively cheap to sort out (about £70 for new pins, boots and grease), and a reasonable DIY job.

[tdwuk]

Thanks for the replies.  I read about the regenerating brakes being quite harsh with little pressure.

I have another question regarding the T-Spirit and the sound system in the 2012 versions.  I want to stream bluetooth audio from my phone and have DAB radio, I see a mix of systems on these models.  Some have about 5 buttons either side with seek/track/am-dad/fm/cd/hdd/ta and some have 4 buttons on the right Eject/Seak/Track/Media and CD slot above the screen.

Are they the same system with different menu?

[PeteB]

I don't think any Gen 2 or 3 came with DAB.  My Gen  T3 had the infotainment upgrade, so was the same SatNav and audio as the T-Spirit - it streamed from the phone using bluetooth just fine.  I mainly used the USB for storing musing though.

I've never had a problem with the brakes myself, I found all generations very progressive, but after over 300,000 miles in Hybrids, I probably learned to be gentle.  I always aim to stay within the regen band as much as possible to preserve the life of the brakes and reclaim the maximum amount of energy.

At 60,000 miles, my Gen 3 had used about ¼ of the pad thickness, so I wouldn't have expected any brake maintenance for a very long time.  However, it's worth noting that the brakes like daily use, which mine got, and the brake wear was minimal even though the car was not garaged.  What they hate is infrequent use, where a cycle of rust/wear, rust/wear can eat the discs and pads in just 10,000 miles or less!  I found this to my cost with a Gen 1 - at 70k, hardly any wear.  I then only drove it once every one or two weeks, and then short distances for a year.  I needed new discs/pads all round very soon after.  I used the car daily again for the remaining 4 years I owned it, and when sold the new brakes had done about 70k and were still hardly worn.  I've heard of cars being sold at over 100k with original discs/pads still in place.

[QuantumFireball]

I don't find the braking harsh at all. The only weird thing is the sudden transition from regenerative braking to friction braking if a traction control event occurs (which kills all regen) - it can be a bit jarring (brake pedal pressure changes) but I'm used to it now.

Just changed the front pads at 62k miles, they could have been the originals for all I know (I've had it about 20k of those miles). A lot of hills around here, so may be more friction braking happening than with others.

[tdwuk]

I was watching a video of a 59reg Prius and it has DAB.  I think the Media button is in the 2012 onwards.  I saw it on a lot of import cars in Autotrader.

 

[PeteB]

Wasn't DAB a dealer fit optional extra for a while?

[tdwuk]

3 minutes ago, QuantumFireball said:

I don't find the braking harsh at all. The only weird thing is the sudden transition from regenerative braking to friction braking if a traction control event occurs (which kills all regen) - it can be a bit jarring (brake pedal pressure changes) but I'm used to it now.

Just changed the front pads at 62k miles, they could have been the originals for all I know (I've had it about 20k of those miles). A lot of hills around here, so may be more friction braking happening than with others.

How does it handle hills?  Do you find yourself having to shift to B mode for downhill?

[tdwuk]

TBH DAB is not a deal killer if I can stream off my phone.  I was in Prius chat and a few people complained that their Gen3 had bluetooth but streaming was not possible, just phone.  Not sure if it was T1-3 or TSpirit.

[PeteB]

7 minutes ago, tdwuk said:

How does it handle hills?  Do you find yourself having to shift to B mode for downhill?

You can, but generally you don't have to.  The only times I find it really useful is in very hilly areas (like Scotland) when the HV Battery has maxed out - a long while after the 8th bar on the gauge lights up) and regen braking no longer happens.  If you find you're using enough braking to use the friction brakes as well as regen to control speed, then it can be helpful.  The other is on ice/snow when it gives a little more control.

The rest of the time, using the main brakes gets the most regen benefit, as less charge is generated while using B mode because it uses the pumping of the engine (with no fuel going in) to help.

The Gen 2 Cruise Control would generally not hold the speed on anything more than a gentle downhill incline, whereas Gen 3 CC was quite good at doing so.

[QuantumFireball]

8 minutes ago, tdwuk said:

How does it handle hills?  Do you find yourself having to shift to B mode for downhill?

No, I don't really use B much, though I have the Plug-in which has a much larger Battery so can benefit from more regen. Climbing the hills hasn't been a problem either.

[PeteB]

8 minutes ago, tdwuk said:

TBH DAB is not a deal killer if I can stream off my phone.  I was in Prius chat and a few people complained that their Gen3 had bluetooth but streaming was not possible, just phone.  Not sure if it was T1-3 or TSpirit.

Best to test out during the test drive if you find one you like than.

[danowat]

I've only ever used B mode once, and that was descending a hill near the Swiss border, and even then it wasn't for long because i didn't like the noise. 

[seljon]

In answer to the original question, very reliable. We bought a T-Spirit with solar roof new in 2010. It has now done 165,000 miles. It has had a single break down in this time when the inverter failed. It was a surprise to us as we knew about inverters from our home solar system but didn’t know the Prius had one. It was an expensive failure - £1,250 to replace. However, that is the only replacement part over the car’s lifetime other than the usual breaks and service items.

Lifetime mpg stands at 55 despite the car mainly being used as a long distance motorway muncher. We don’t hypermile and keep up with the faster traffic so we are very happy with that.

The car has a DAB button on the radio but it is a dealer option. We have been quoted £250 to add this to the car. Unfortunately we went for the similarly priced ‘iPod integration’ kit which is nothing of the sort and completely pointless, especially as you can stream via bluetooth or via the aux lead.

We are now looking to replace but will probably not get another Toyota, not because they are not great cars but because they don’t yet do a BEV which will be our next car. After a couple of years running a Leaf alongside the Prius, we don’t want another petrol-engined car, no matter how efficient.

[QuantumFireball]

I've heard of a few inverter failures with early Gen 3's ('09-'10), but I do not know how common it is.

[PeteB]

46 minutes ago, QuantumFireball said:

I've heard of a few inverter failures with early Gen 3's ('09-'10), but I do not know how common it is.

There was a recall to deal with it.

I believe they re-flashed (loaded new software) into one of the engine management ECUs and IIRC it was stop prevent the system pumping too much extra electricity through when using full pedal in PWR mode.  From what I read at the time, people who floored it a lot in PWR mode fried the Inverter so they stopped it giving the extra boost.

[seljon]

13 minutes ago, PeteB said:

There was a recall to deal with it.

I believe they re-flashed (loaded new software) into one of the engine management ECUs and IIRC it was stop prevent the system pumping too much extra electricity through when using full pedal in PWR mode.  From what I read at the time, people who floored it a lot in PWR mode fried the Inverter so they stopped it giving the extra boost.

Interesting thanks.  We don't use PWR mode and have always had the car serviced at Toyota.  We did ask if this was a known fault and/or it was covered by the warranty and it was no to both.  Bit of a pain in the wallet at the time but it has otherwise been incredibly cheap to run.

[tdwuk]

Thanks for the replies, the Prius sounds like a good choice even if a bit older than the Ceed I was looking at.  I might opt for the extended warranty with my dealer, for my Verso it was £500ish for 2 years, used it a couple of times so more than covered the cost.  May not be essential for the Prius but previous owners may not have looked after the car and having peace of mind is worth it I reckon.

How about the Prius Plugin Hybrid?  I have seen a 2014 for about £13k with around 60k miles on it.  From the research I did, they did not hang about long, just a few years.  Any particular issues? 

[QuantumFireball]

I have a Plug-in. I'm not aware of any issues besides what has been already mentioned here. As they only came out in 2012, I don't think they are prone to inverter failures.

They are mechanically mostly identical to the standard Gen 3 Prius, except for the larger 4.4 kWh Li-ion Battery, external charging ability, and lack of space for a spare wheel. Besides no spare wheel well, they have pretty much the same space in the rear compared to the normal Gen 3 - unlike the new Plug-in (PHV) which has very compromised boot space and only 4 seats.

[Catlover]

Back in February I bought a 2010 Gen 3 with 105,000 on the clock, service book showed 10 stamps, 8 Toyota and 2 Independent garage. Ran very well. Have a service at Toyota and they give a Hybrid Battery check for nothing and guarantee the Battery a further 12 months. You can do this every year up to year 10, but if you have the Battery check done before end of 10th year you get the 11th year - that's some faith by Toyota.

I sold the car 1 week ago to get a used Prius Gen4. The Gen3 then had 110,300 on the clock. Really nice to drive. I was getting good fuel consumption. Over the last 2,800 miles it was doing 66.2 mpg, used no oil, and running really well. I really enjoyed the car, hence deciding to go for a Gen4, otherwise I would still be happy driving the Gen3.

Check the back brake disks, they can corrode due to lack of use. Initial braking is with the regenative braking system, only when you press harder does the wheel braking come into effect. That means when driving with economy in mind, reading the road ahead and braking early means rear brakes get little use.  

[QuantumFireball]

3 minutes ago, Catlover said:

Check the back brake disks, they can corrode due to lack of use. Initial braking is with the regenative braking system, only when you press harder does the wheel braking come into effect. That means when driving with economy in mind, reading the road ahead and braking early means rear brakes get little use.  

Corrosion is either due to misalignment of the caliper pistons, or the guide pins seizing, or both. The friction brakes are always used under 10 km/h, and the rear ones whenever you use the parking brake, so they should not corrode. After replacing and lubricating the guide pins, and re-fitting the pads correctly, mine are corrosion-free.

[PeteB]

7 hours ago, seljon said:

Interesting thanks.  We don't use PWR mode and have always had the car serviced at Toyota.  We did ask if this was a known fault and/or it was covered by the warranty and it was no to both.  Bit of a pain in the wallet at the time but it has otherwise been incredibly cheap to run.

At 2010 you probably just missed the 5 year warranty - if it failed within the warranty period it should have been covered.  Often, if the car is a little out of warranty and has been Toyota serviced, it's worth asking the dealer to check with Toyota whether they will make a goodwill offer for all, or at least some of the cost.

We had an Aygo water pump failure outside the 3 year warranty, and they agreed to pay for it when asked.

[PeteB]

6 hours ago, QuantumFireball said:

Corrosion is either due to misalignment of the caliper pistons, or the guide pins seizing, or both. The friction brakes are always used under 10 km/h, and the rear ones whenever you use the parking brake, so they should not corrode. After replacing and lubricating the guide pins, and re-fitting the pads correctly, mine are corrosion-free.

Prius brakes are quite prone to rust on cars that are not used regularly, especially if not garaged.  When the car is next driven the rust get eaten away but in doing so wears away both pad and disc.

I've seen this first hand on a Prius that had daily use for all but one year of the 9 years I had it, and the brakes had negligible wear.  For 12 months I mainly drove company Gen 2 Prius and during that time my car was hardly used.  In that time, the first set of pads/discs (both ends) completely wore away.  The second set, fitted at around 90k miles, were still very meaty when the car was sols at 163k.  The inactivity also killed my A/C compressor too - the Gen 1 used a belt driven compressor, unlike the electric version in later models.

My last (Gen 3) Prius had done 60k when I sold it, and after daily use the brakes were under ¼ worn even though it wasn't garaged.  I found normal driving was sufficient to keep them clear, without the hard/neutral/reverse braking that some people practise.