HandBrake Woes ...

[oldcodger]

Hi,

Have adjusted many handbrakes, but this one has let me defeated. ☹️

Noticed a similar post from some time ago, but no resolution to it left.

Had to replace the rear discs and pads for the upcoming mot, so also got some new handbrake shoes as they were looking rather worn and glazed.

Initial results were bad, little or no purchase from either wheel, so drove to car , applying the handbrake while moving to help the shoes and drums to bed in.

The offside one seems to do that ok, but the nearside just does not grip, despite re-cleaning and re-adjusting etc etc etc !

Even swapped the drums over with no real effect;   with the drums removed you can see the shoes operate as the handbrake lever is pulled, so it looks like the cables are pulling evenly ?

The cables look clean with no signs of rust or fraying, even looked at the other end  by the equaliser  and they also look good.

Though there is some thread left on the handbrake lever adjuster, wondered if the nearside cable is slightly stretched and its no allowing full and even pressure to be applied ?  though thought that was the function of the cable / yoke /equaliser ?

Any thoughts welcome .....

 

[DeTomato]

So when I had a rear brake problem, a rear caliper piston had seized. Winding it in and out and cleaning with brake cleaner freed it up. If the handbrake is on, the cable takes up the brakes, but there's no symptom of a piston stopping or getting stuck because the other brake is compensating. Does this help a bit?

[alan333]

Sounds like adjustment to me, the cables should self-centre.  Are you adjusting the shoes before fitting the drum?  In the Avensis you can access the adjuster through a wheel nut hole, thus perhaps it 'settles' better?

[oldcodger]

1 hour ago, DeTomato said:

So when I had a rear brake problem, a rear caliper piston had seized. Winding it in and out and cleaning with brake cleaner freed it up. If the handbrake is on, the cable takes up the brakes, but there's no symptom of a piston stopping or getting stuck because the other brake is compensating. Does this help a bit?

Thanks, but the standard 2002-2006 Rolla has a separate set of shoes within the disc/drum assembly, so the disc piston etc is not involved.

[oldcodger]

1 hour ago, alan333 said:

Sounds like adjustment to me, the cables should self-centre.  Are you adjusting the shoes before fitting the drum?  In the Avensis you can access the adjuster through a wheel nut hole, thus perhaps it 'settles' better?

Hi,

The cable operated shoes have the usual star adjusters which are accessable though a hole in the  front of the drum , the wheel spokes block it completely so its a wheel off job every time !

Have adjusted them on fully on, then backed off about 2-4  notches until it spins almost free, but the nearside just does not seem to bite when the hand brake is pulled on, yet the offside is locked solid, its as if the cable is just not pulling tight enough On  , but as you say, the Equaliser yoke should take care of any imbalance ??

Have removed the heatshield to reveal the equaliser and cables and all looks fine, almost like new considering its 12 years old.

Unlike  hydraulically operated rear drums only, where you can press the brake pedal to help centralise the shoes, on the Rolla cable only handbrake there seems no way to similalry centralise them..?  though have tried manually moving the shoes up and down  a fraction to try and get the best feel/least drag

The new  Disc/Drums were Bremtec and the shoes  Apec brands  but after finding those shoes giving the problem  purchased some new Mintex shoes in case  there was a problem with the linings or the lever / metalwork, but just the same, and yes I did clean off all the protection coating from the Discs/Drums etc.

Also used a new shoe fitting kit.

Unless there's something I have missed ( quiet possible these days...   )    think the only thing I can do is to put all the original parts back on and see if the problem is still there ??

[alan333]

Sounds like the same setup on the Avensis.  On the Avensis you can access the adjuster (albeit a bit awkwardly) through the hole of a removed wheel stud, by spinning the wheel to the correct orientation.

What about trying adjusting the shoes up til locked, then backing off just a jiffy, then applying the handbrake to centre them, then repeat etc.  Alternatively try leaving them adjusted tighter than you would normally have them and go a short drive, applying the handbrake occasionally while moving - and see if they heat up.

It's got to be something to do with adjustment - you've checked everything else.

[DeTomato]

If one wheel is not locking off with the handbrake, have you checked that it's operating correctly when the brake pedal is applied? If so, it does sound like an adjustment on the cable or perhaps a retaining clip is missing or a bracket doesn't have the cable in it? Check this:

 

[oldcodger]

3 hours ago, alan333 said:

Sounds like the same setup on the Avensis.  On the Avensis you can access the adjuster (albeit a bit awkwardly) through the hole of a removed wheel stud, by spinning the wheel to the correct orientation.

What about trying adjusting the shoes up til locked, then backing off just a jiffy, then applying the handbrake to centre them, then repeat etc.  Alternatively try leaving them adjusted tighter than you would normally have them and go a short drive, applying the handbrake occasionally while moving - and see if they heat up.

It's got to be something to do with adjustment - you've checked everything else.

Hi,

Oh yes, done all that and the offside did respond and start to grip ok, then the nearside would just would not.  Going to have a weekend off from it to let the bp and frustration go down !!   Will then try swapping things around and see if I can prove where the problem lies, though as said you think it such a simple mechanism would be simple enough.

 

As D mentions, have inspected the  brake cables and they are visually  in very good condition and could see the shoes being opened up as the handbrake was pulled, though do need to test them more to ensure nothing is snagging.

 

 

[Colourd]

If I understood whats been said it has to be - although you mentioned discs replacement then drums swap ? am I missing something there

Cables, dry, binding, need lubing, kinked, adjustment

Handbrake shoes contact points, and or the shoes arms or pivot points binding - dry - need some lubing ?

 

[alan333]

6 hours ago, Colourd said:

If I understood whats been said it has to be - although you mentioned discs replacement then drums swap ? am I missing something there

 

 

The disc has a small inner drum.  The footbrake uses the disc and pads, the handbrake uses the drum and small shoes.

[alan333]

Another thought @oldcodger... what happens if you slacken off the 'good' side a bit?

[oldcodger]

4 hours ago, alan333 said:

Another thought @oldcodger... what happens if you slacken off the 'good' side a bit?

Yep, follow your thoughts will give it a try .

[oldcodger]

Hi,

Update on my handbrake problems, carried out the above suggestions but still little grip on the nearside and not that much on the offside.

Rather than continue with these parts I decided to refit all the originals, disc/drums, old shoes and fittings,  needed to give the old discs a good power wire brushing as they had been left outside;  good job I hadn't disposed of them !

As soon as they were assembled they were coubikly adjusted and the handbrake lever adjustment just done up a bit and wallop, both  rears locked up solid.

Fitted the wheels so I could really put some pressure on them and no way could I move them, if anything they are now better than ever before !

So, what on earth caused all my previous problems ??  - beginning to suspect the internal diameter of the drum  but no not have the tools to accurately measure them.

Still not going to do anything for now as its a case of re-bedding the shoes and pads and  getting though the mot before the end of the month, even though the rear discs are getting a bit ridged and thin, hence the original reason for getting new ones.

 

Thanks for all the input.

 

[alan333]

A mystery indeed, but at keast you've cured it for now.

[DeTomato]

Brakes are odd at times. I recall getting some after market discs for a car once and within weeks the disks had warped so bad that the steering was shaking under applying the brakes. Took it back and the engineer put specific new car ones on and the problem never re-occurred. So I tend to get anything with wheels, brakes or steering sorted out with manufacturer parts now. But your problem is strange because you'd expect shoes to move evenly, unless maybe a spring perhaps between the two shoes was being impeded or the like. It does seem weird.