Hybrid - orange key symbol

[Mick F]

The other day, I used the "spare" key to drive Jennifer - our 2014 Yaris Hybrid.

When I was switching off, the key symbol flashed orange, so I switched back on and all was ok.  Switching off again, the orange key symbol flashed at me again.

The car unlocked and locked and drove fine without an error, but when switching off, there was the orange key again. Checking the handbook, I find that the Battery in the key is registering that it's depleted so I've fitted a new CR2032 and the orange symbol has gone now.

We've had Jennifer for a year, and when we bought her, the dealer said that the batteries in both keys had been replaced - and I have no reason to doubt them.

Does the Battery deplete in a key when unused hanging on a hook behind the kitchen door?

Mick

[Heidfirst]

42 minutes ago, Mick F said:

Does the battery deplete in a key when unused hanging on a hook behind the kitchen door?

 

yes, especially if in range of the car when that is parked (later smartfobs apparently have an option to turn off).

[Anthony Poli]

At least the car warns you before it’s too late. Our spare was like yours on a hook and not used for a year or more. It had gone completely flat. Luckily fitting a new Battery was all that I needed.


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[YarisHybrid2016]

I've yet to have this problem after 3 years. I'm curious - do you get the fob Battery changed at the service?

I've only ever had mine replaced at the service when due (I think annually?). So far, no problems. They are kept faaar out of range of the car in a secret location with protection to prevent remote activation. Maybe this makes a difference?

[Anthony Poli]

I've yet to have this problem after 3 years. I'm curious - do you get the fob battery changed at the service?
I've only ever had mine replaced at the service when due (I think annually?). So far, no problems. They are kept faaar out of range of the car in a secret location with protection to prevent remote activation. Maybe this makes a difference?

Don’t forget we are talking about the spare key, when they came to pick up the car, I had to give them the working key and didn’t want to give them both keys. When the other car went in for the replacement head unit, I asked them them about the totality dead key and they gave me 2 batteries for both keys.



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[furtula]

Car should warn you when the spare key Battery is ending it's life. Even if your spare key Battery is depleted, you can still start the car by putting the key next to the stop/start button, so you won't be left stranded in any way.

[Mick F]

On 8/18/2018 at 7:03 PM, Heidfirst said:

yes, especially if in range of the car when that is parked (later smartfobs apparently have an option to turn off).

Thanks!

That explains it.  I must consider removing the Battery from the spare.   We live in a small bungalow and the range of the keys is so long, I don't think we could get out of range of it anywhere in the place.

Mick.

[Heidfirst]

3 hours ago, Mick F said:

  We live in a small bungalow and the range of the keys is so long, I don't think we could get out of range of it anywhere in the place.

You could place it in a Faraday bag e.g. https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/103187/best-faraday-bag-car-key-signal-blockers-2018

[Mick F]

Yes, good idea!

An old baccy tin! 😀

As a matter of interest. the range of the keys is so long, it's possible to open the car from so far away, that it has re-locked automatically by the time you have walked to it, so I must see if I can measure the distance in a clear flat area.   Other cars we've owned, have never had that range or anywhere near it.

Mick.

[Mike J.]

I am not sure there is a problem here, perhaps I am missing things?

In my case the unlocking range is indeed high (50 meters perhaps) but you have to press a button to transmit the signal! The passive signal distance is far less, about 2 metres - the distance necessary for the car start button to work.

What is the problem again, is it regarding the auto-unlocking feature that was an option - wouldn't that be the 2 metres passive range again?

[Mick F]

What we don't know (or at least I don't know) how the key and car interact at rest.

Our car sits on the drive unlocked.  I can have the key in my pocket or in my hand and open the door and the car knows the key is there even without a button being pressed.  The car is waiting for the key and listening all the time, it must be as it's always ready.

So ............. what is the key doing when it's not in the car?  Is the key always listening for the car even whilst still in the house?  What is the spare key doing when the car is away?  Is that listening for the car as well?  Maybe they "chirp" every few seconds and wait for a handshake sequence.

Mick.

[furtula]

I would presume they are always .doing the same, key always sending, car always looking for signal from the key. That is why it's recomended to change key fob Battery every year, but even if you dont do so, the car will tell you when the Battery is low.

To unlock the car you need to be quite close, around 1m from the door, or maybe a bit more. You can easily test this theory at night, because when car senses the key, it automatically illuminates the cabin, waiting to be unlocked.

Some cars have double locking feature, press locking button 2x in 5 seconds and the car will disable unlocking from outside or inside. To undo this, hold the door handle, and press unlock button. There should be a sticker on window if the car supports this.

[Mike J.]

40 minutes ago, Mick F said:

Our car sits on the drive unlocked.  I can have the key in my pocket or in my hand and open the door and the car knows the key is there even without a button being pressed.

Don't forget that the brake assistance pump is activated purely by the door being opened. The car will not 'start' unless the key is within around 2 metres. Note that the key not close (flat key battery) warning tell-tale light only flashes when the start button is pressed. So my take is that the start button interacts with the immobiliser chip (that can work without a key fob battery). With a Battery, the key fob notices an immobiliser present request and replies with the immobiliser info.

[Mike J.]

11 minutes ago, furtula said:

To unlock the car you need to be quite close, around 1m from the door, or maybe a bit more. You can easily test this theory at night, because when car senses the key, it automatically illuminates the cabin, waiting to be unlocked.

I am not sure this thread is for cars with auto-unlocking. Even if it is, the manual mentions that the fob is always receiving (rather than transmitting) - so the stealing process is to 'effectively' move the car to the key, by signal boosting, in the first instance. More info in the manual regarding key storage at home - keep away from TVs, etc.

[Mick F]

Ours isn't auto unlocking.  You have to press a button to remotely lock and to unlock.

Yes, the brake servo pump runs when you open the driver's door, but it's possible ........ and I've done it when needing to be parked very close on the right .......... to get in from the passenger side and move across.  Even then, I may not have the key with me with Mrs Mick F following behind me and getting in as a passenger with the key in her handbag.  Once the key is inside the car, you can press the Start button and off you go.  No doubt the brake servo pump runs asap.

The key will lock and/or unlock the car in excess of 50yds away (guess from experience).  I'll be out in the car later today and I'll test it out using walking paces to measure it.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that the keys (both of them) are consuming Battery power 24/7/365.  Putting the spare in a baccy tin won't help.  Best thing is to remove the Battery from the spare key.  Pointless consuming a CR2032 Battery for no reward as the spare key isn't needed generally.  Last car we had, had only one remote controlled key for many many years and we managed fine.

Mick.

[Mike J.]

25 minutes ago, Mick F said:

The more I think about it, the more I believe that the keys (both of them) are consuming battery power 24/7/365.  Putting the spare in a baccy tin won't help.  

As mentioned in the manual, they (possibly only the auto-unlockers) are always in listen mode. Putting in a tin will really only help if you have auto-unlocking and hi-tech car thieves around.

[Mick F]

I was at a local supermarket yesterday evening.  Nice clear carpark, and flat too.

I locked the car, then paced out 25 paces, and re-locked and the car indicators flashed.

Went further, and further, and eventually at 100paces and it was still working.  At that point, I'd run out of distance.  I couldn't predict how far it would reach, but at 100 good paces - lets be conservative here, so maybe 90yds? - it's far enough.

Mick.

[Heidfirst]

When I had my 2012 Avensis TSpirit with push to start & therefore a smartfob I was going through fob batteries ~ 6 months (incl. the spare which was kept in a drawer & never used) - considerably more often than in the remote keys of my previous & current Avensis which have mechanical ignition keys. My understanding is that later smartfobs (I believe that e.g. Mercedes also do) have a way of being switched off/put to sleep by a button press procedure so Toyota must have been aware of an issue.

[Mick F]

I removed the Battery from the spare.

No point in running a perfectly good Battery down for no reason.

Mick.

[Heidfirst]

I got the  batteries for free from my dealer anyway so it  wasn't really an issue.

 

[m456an]

17 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

When I had my 2012 Avensis TSpirit with push to start & therefore a smartfob I was going through fob batteries ~ 6 months (incl. the spare which was kept in a drawer & never used) - considerably more often than in the remote keys of my previous & current Avensis which have mechanical ignition keys. My understanding is that later smartfobs (I believe that e.g. Mercedes also do) have a way of being switched off/put to sleep by a button press procedure so Toyota must have been aware of an issue.

They probably need a button push to wake them. But this is what start stop is, on all the time so you don't wear out the fob buttons, if the car Battery goes, than you cannot...https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/1767517/flat-battery-cant-unlock-car

[Heidfirst]

6 hours ago, m456an said:

They probably need a button push to wake them. But this is what start stop is, on all the time so you don't wear out the fob buttons, if the car battery goes, than you cannot...https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/1767517/flat-battery-cant-unlock-car

we aren't talking about start/stop - cars with that use a heavier Battery & start/stop disables if the charge falls below a certain level.

With push to start/smartfob with a flat fob Battery you can still start the car by holding the fob against the pts button (done it). Obviously if it is the car with a totally flat Battery then the car wouldn't start whether the ignition is switched via a mechanical key or a pts button & you are able to enter the car with the mechanical key stored in the smartfob (as the person in your link was eventually able to).