Poss cam belt failure

[PaxosStu]

Hi all. Got a uk Rav4 2003 2.0 D4D manual in greek islands and its done about 150k miles. 

Changed cam belt and tensioner etc approx 8,000 miles ago at toyota franchise on greek mainland. I supplied the belt and tensioner kit from Eurocarparts/JAP PARTS, cant remember which but went for OE quality. 

Today missus was climbing a hill and she says it lost power almost instantaneously , shuddered, engine management light came on and it stopped. Slight fluid loss on road, is slimy, but not oil, possibly antifreeze but had dried out by time i got there (38c here) 

tried to start it but its turning over like its got no compression. Obviously i know this nearly always means cambelt but it was done last year. 

Do you think its cambelt. Didnt have time to take cover off today but will try tomorrow 

Any ideas? If is cambelt do they do lots of damage when they go? 

[daveh_rav4]

Hi, from what you have said... it does sound like a cambelt.  It is possible that the belt was badly fitted and or the springs or tensioner were badly fitted.  It is also not unknown for unscrubilous garages to claim that they have fitted a new belt and infact have not fitted one at all! It is very difficult for an average customer to verify and is normally taken on trust. 😞

Here is a list of Toyota engines that are 'none interferance' that a member called Mike kindly published some time ago when the question was asked:-

Toyota Rav4 Non-interference cam belt engines

Toyota • 1.5L (1A-C, 3A-C & 3E) Interference • 1.5L (3E-E & 5E-FE) Non-Interference • 1.6L DOHC (4A-F & 4A-FE) Interference • 1.6L DOHC (4A-GE & 4A-GZE) Non-Interference • 1.6L SOHC Non-Interference • 1.8L Diesel Interference • 1.8L DOHC Gasoline Interference • 2.0L Non-Interference • 2.2L Diesel Interference • 2.2L Gasoline Non-Interference • 2.4L Diesel Interference • 2.5L Non-Interference • 2.8L Non-Interference • 3.0L Inline 6 (Except 1998 2JZ-GE) Non-Interference • 3.0L Inline 6 VVT-i (1998 2JZ-GE) Interference • 3.0L V6 Non-Interference • 3.3L V6 Non-Interference • 3.4L Non-Interference * 3.5L V-6 Non-Interference • 4.7L Interference.

Hopefully, when you pull the cover to check... and if it is that;  yours will be in the list above.

I have had it with cambelts and the constant worry of one breaking... also the yearly trauma of getting a car through the MOT... I am going to spend £20,000 on a historic 4x4 nut & bolt fourty year old rebuild.  Solid steel gears for the cam shaft gears,  Tax exempt, MOT exempt and historic insurance @ £6 a month plus the pleasure of driving a real car without all this digital plastic tosh that's being fitted to cars these days.  A friend of mine has a Hyundia car he purchsed several years ago for several thousand pounds... it has failed the MOT emmissions test and he has been advised to scap the car.  The mechanics don't know what is wrong with it.  It starts on the button, does not smoke or knock, does not lose oil and the fuel consumption is normal.  It had a new CAT and still fails...  he is at a lose of what to do!  Modern cars... 😞

 

 

[gjnorthall]

You can check for a failed belt by rocking the engine and checking camshaft movement through the oil filler or the inspection plug on the top cover of the belt (some models). There's a lot of conflicting information on whether this engine is interference or not (the list in the above post doesn't state diesel or petrol for the 2.0L engine). The early 4.2 diesel was certainly an interference engine and I can't imagine that yours will be any different. This being the case, and if the belt has failed, the damage to valves will be significant. Its usually possible to check for damage by fitting a belt and roughly measuring the tappet clearances. Excessive clearance usually indicates a bent valve.

Examination of the belt will indicate the mode of failure. As well as issues with tensioners, idler wheels etc it's not unknown for garages to fit the flinger disc on the crankshaft pulley the wrong way around. This will usually lead to belt failure in a few thousand miles.

[PaxosStu]

Thanks guys. Yes GjNorthall I also noted from the list that the 2.0L doesnt stipulate diesel or petrol but I dont recall seeing a 2.0 petrol?? 

A Toyota main agent did the belt last year for me, so I very much doubt they fitted the flinger disc the wrong way but you never know!! ;-) 

Gonna send it back to them & see what they say as there could be/should be some goodwill there somewhere 

Problem is, when I originally went to get the belt changed last year I bought all the bits from Euro's because it was going to be done by a local garage here then they bottled out of the job so I sent it to a Toyota main agent on the mainland & seemed pointless to buy another belt from them when I'd already bought all the kit & stuff. 
Anyway what will be will be, I gave £3000 for it 9yrs ago & have had a good 9yrs out of it so if its F****D so be it, just a shame as a good car 

 

[daveh_rav4]

Sounds like a pretty exact assessment from 'G' Stuart... I agree, if it is the cambelt there should be some 'goodwill' from the garage that fitted after such a short time; however, if they strip the engine down to investigate they are hardly likely to admit liability of bad workmanship unless you are present when the tear-down takes place... then you would need to know what you are looking for.  Perhaps an independent garage in the UK could give an un-biased opinion (Mr. 'G' 🙂 )    Edit: opp's I forgot... you said this happened abroad 😞

My 98 Rav4 is a 2ltr petrol engine... and in the above list states 'non-interference'.  However I have heard other mechanics claim otherwise... so I don't know what to make of it all!  It does seem crazy that a serviceable item like a cambelt on these cars is such a major job taking several hours and great expense. My cambelt is just coming up to 60,000 miles since (supposedly) it had its last one. I have heard though that these belts can last up to 90.000. 

I could change the cambelt on my old Ford XR2 in about an hour plus a few scraped knuckles LOL.  However, that had to be done every 40,000 miles.  I have broached my local mechanic about my cambelt as I am over seventy now and to old to be doing jobs like this... however, he knows what’s involved and is fighting shy of the job LOL.  One reason why I am done with ruddy cambelts!

Anyhow, think carefully about your next move Stuart... and surely take advice from 'G' ^

 

What part of Hampshire are you from?

[Grumpy stumpy]

Slightly off topic but I had an independent Toyota/Lexus garage fit a cam belt kit to my Lexus RX400H and I asked them to fit genuine belt, I was told the genuine belt had a 12 month warranty but an oem quality non genuine belt had a 36 month warranty and had fitted these for years with no issues.

[PaxosStu]

Can anyone tell me on a scale of 1-10 what a bitc* job a cambelt is on a 2003 Rav4 2-0 D4D? Looks pretty tight in there but is it really that big a deal?? Any special tools or could a good general mechanic do the job?? Asking because I'm on a very small remote 8x4km Greek island & there's only 1 poss 2 people who I'd trust this job to, depending on replies from "Those that have actually done one before" not those who haven't got the T shirt!! LOL

[Grumpy stumpy]

Oh mate feel for you, not only have you a problem with your Rav, you have Steve mclaren as your manager !! We had him at Forest what a useless ( rhymes with hat ). 

Hopefully someone on here can help with your  Rav. 

[PaxosStu]

ha could be his last game tonite!! 

[yossarian247]

Going back to an earlier point, but 'non-interference diesels' don't really exist, at least not in four stroke form. The high compression ratio required by a diesel engine makes building a non interference engine impractical. Therefore, if its a diesel then it's an interference engine unfortunately. 

[gjnorthall]

There's a very good description with pictures of a belt change on a 4.2 here:

https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/tutorials/article/87-rav4-change-timing-belt-1cd-ftv-diesel/

 

[Byzii]

22 hours ago, daveh_rav4 said:

A friend of mine has a Hyundia car he purchsed several years ago for several thousand pounds... it has failed the MOT emmissions test and he has been advised to scap the car.  The mechanics don't know what is wrong with it.  It starts on the button, does not smoke or knock, does not lose oil and the fuel consumption is normal.  It had a new CAT and still fails...  he is at a lose of what to do!  Modern cars... 😞

 

 

Probably drives it too gently and soot has collected in the exhaust. That's the most common way to have high emissions. Even regular highway driving doesn't get rid of the soot, it just cooks it more because of the high temperatures. At that point the car needs proper thrashing, higher exhaust velocity equals more soot coming out.

[daveh_rav4]

Aghhh... the ubiquitous 'Italian tune up' LOL.  At plus 70 years, I must admit I don't drive around aggressively as I used too when I had a Sterling Moss right boot and a chrome, large bore exhaust extension.  So, despite requests from government, and driving agencies to drive carefully and at sensible speeds... it seems we all have to thrash it up and down the motorway in what would be a somewhat reckless manner just to make the CAT work and drive soot out from the exhaust! Just so the vehicle can pass an emissions test with a devices fitted to the vehicle at the insistence of government... that won't work correctly unless the engine is driven to the edge of destruction LOL

OK, I am probably stretching a few points here... but you get my drift eh!  I have to agree with you regarding the technicalities of it though.  Where did it all go wrong?

 

[IanML]

No need for reckless thrashing 😊  Just drive it at a reasonable speed in a lower gear than usual - you want high rpm for high gas flow, but the road speed is immaterial.

[daveh_rav4]

Point taken Ian... and my comments were a bit 'tongue in cheek' 🙂  Seems somewhat a reversal for me though... I was brought up on engines that you had to respect if you wanted them to last; if you ran them at sustained high revving with the rev-counter nudged into the red… you risked running the bearings or piston pickup.  You then had that nasty burnt oil smell where the oil had got so hot it had carbonised and... well, a disaster!  

I need a DeLorean… take me back to the cars of my youth LOL

If Toyota still made these FJ40's... I would be first in the queue for one:-

[PaxosStu]

Ok thanks for all the info & stuff. We've drifted slightly off topic now but really appreciate all the advice (as ever) 

[spl@]

On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 11:52 PM, daveh_rav4 said:

Point taken Ian... and my comments were a bit 'tongue in cheek' 🙂  Seems somewhat a reversal for me though... I was brought up on engines that you had to respect if you wanted them to last; if you ran them at sustained high revving with the rev-counter nudged into the red… you risked running the bearings or piston pickup.  You then had that nasty burnt oil smell where the oil had got so hot it had carbonised and... well, a disaster!  

I need a DeLorean… take me back to the cars of my youth LOL

If Toyota still made these FJ40's... I would be first in the queue for one:-

Mk3 2000e , or a superspeed cortina for me but otherwise I agree entirely.