PHEV

[altocumulus]

A couple of items I'm never too clear on with the PHEV.

1) Difference between EV mode and EV City mode. Having read a few articles, they don't clarify any more than the manual!

The only interpretation I can rationalise with is the EV City mode uses a lower power than the EV - otherwise they are the "same" - floor the pedal and the ICE kicks in?

2) Locking.

It seems I have double locking on my PHEV, but what's the benefit of the double over the single that was available in other Toyota vehicles?

Not really had an opportunity yet to give the PHEV a real trial out; HV mode from the garage in Elgin to outside Aberdeen got me 97mpg and a 96/100 scoring.

I used to routinely get 60-65 in the Gens2 &3, and 50 in the RAV4 Hybrid (about 5mpg lower in winter) - so I'm expecting great things with the PHEV.....:D

[QuantumFireball]

I don't know about the current model, but on mine "EV City" mode just restricts ICE usage further - it disables cruise control and you really have to floor it for the ICE to engage. I don't think it changes throttle response beyond that.

[PeteB]

Most Toyotas, including all version of the Prius have double locking.

When you press the lock button on the remote (or touch the keyless locking area on the door handle) it just locks the car normally and sets the alarm.  When you do it a second time within 5 seconds, the double locking 'deadlocks' the doors, so that it's not possible to release the lock from inside the car, which is why the books says don't use double locking if you leave someone in the car.  The idea is that if a thief breaks a window they still can't open the doors.

All my cars since the the late 1980s have had double locking.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Please update your profile from the 2011 Prius. 

[altocumulus]

1 hour ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Please update your profile from the 2011 Prius. 

No problem...!

2 hours ago, QuantumFireball said:

I don't know about the current model, but on mine "EV City" mode just restricts ICE usage further - it disables cruise control and you really have to floor it for the ICE to engage. I don't think it changes throttle response beyond that.

Aye, that seems logical - thanks....

2 hours ago, PeteB said:

Most Toyotas, including all version of the Prius have double locking.

When you press the lock button on the remote (or touch the keyless locking area on the door handle) it just locks the car normally and sets the alarm.  When you do it a second time within 5 seconds, the double locking 'deadlocks' the doors, so that it's not possible to release the lock from inside the car, which is why the books says don't use double locking if you leave someone in the car.  The idea is that if a thief breaks a window they still can't open the doors.

All my cars since the the late 1980s have had double locking.

mmm Interesting. On my other Toyotas there's been a comment in the manual that double locking has only been available if there's a label on the driver's window saying so - and none of mine ever have! OK - perhaps I'm mixing it up with something else?

[FROSTYBALLS]

Some have a label or labels either in the side windows or the windscreen, re the Toyota security system (ie. immobiliser and/or alarm), not necessarily the double locking. Probably dealer applied. 

[Ten Ninety]

11 hours ago, altocumulus said:

1) Difference between EV mode and EV City mode. Having read a few articles, they don't clarify any more than the manual!

The only interpretation I can rationalise with is the EV City mode uses a lower power than the EV - otherwise they are the "same" - floor the pedal and the ICE kicks in?

I think it's a subtle difference. EV City mode will not start the ICE unless you floor it. EV mode will fire it up in certain other circumstances, although I'm not entirely sure what they might be! 

I haven't tried EV CIty mode at all yet, as normal EV mode seems to work perfectly well. I'm guessing it makes it easier to avoid hard acceleration in town by softening the accelerator even more.

[altocumulus]

10 hours ago, Ten Ninety said:

I think it's a subtle difference. EV City mode will not start the ICE unless you floor it. EV mode will fire it up in certain other circumstances, although I'm not entirely sure what they might be! 

I haven't tried EV CIty mode at all yet, as normal EV mode seems to work perfectly well. I'm guessing it makes it easier to avoid hard acceleration in town by softening the accelerator even more.

Subtle might be the word! - and yet if that's all the difference is, then is that not the same as changing the mode to ECO which also softens the accelerator ?

[QuantumFireball]

EV City just changes the threshold for when the ICE engages, it doesn't affect throttle response beyond that. Eco mode changes throttle response throughout the entire range of travel (more or less). You can have Eco + EV City on at the same time.

[altocumulus]

5 minutes ago, QuantumFireball said:

EV City just changes the threshold for when the ICE engages, it doesn't affect throttle response beyond that. Eco mode changes throttle response throughout the entire range of travel (more or less). You can have Eco + EV City on at the same time.

Now that's a simple explanation that the manual could have used!

 

Thank you Aaron....

[altocumulus]

On a separate note - what's the recommendation on charging the Battery to help longevity - set the home charge to charge before an expected journey the next day, or keep it topped up?

Issues like this aren't obvious when reading the manual through.....

I'm a bit miffed this morning, I set up the schedule to charge overnight (Economy7) and it didn't! I still have the same 2 out of 3 charge lights on that I had yesterday - I'll have to get the manual out and double check what I didn't do correctly.

 

I'm still waiting on Chargemaster to install the 3.7 Charger, so was plugged in with the 3-pin.

[QuantumFireball]

Again I'm not too familiar with the current generation, but I need to turn on the timer every time if I want it to charge in the morning. You can set an end time with no defined start time, so it will start whenever needed in order to be fully charged at that time.

In terms of longevity, I think it's better to charge before the start of your trip rather than just after returning home, and that's mainly down to Battery temperature management. Charging will heat up the batteries, so it's preferable to not charge already hot batteries (i.e. immediately after a journey). And the batteries have an optimal operating temperature, so it might be better to start your journey with warm batteries (from charging) rather than cold. With our climate, it probably doesn't make an awful lot of difference though.

The only important recommendation is to not leave it fully charged when not in use for extended periods of time, e.g. a month or more. This may lead to faster degradation.

[altocumulus]

2 minutes ago, QuantumFireball said:

Again I'm not too familiar with the current generation, but I need to turn on the timer every time if I want it to charge in the morning. You can set an end time with no defined start time, so it will start whenever needed in order to be fully charged at that time.

In terms of longevity, I think it's better to charge before the start of your trip rather than just after returning home, and that's mainly down to battery temperature management. Charging will heat up the batteries, so it's preferable to not charge already hot batteries (i.e. immediately after a journey). And the batteries have an optimal operating temperature, so it might be better to start your journey with warm batteries (from charging) rather than cold. With our climate, it probably doesn't make an awful lot of difference though.

The only important recommendation is to not leave it fully charged when not in use for extended periods of time, e.g. a month or more. This may lead to faster degradation.

Thank you - I'll see how the schedule responds this coming night - as far as I can tell it's set to charge each night to start at 0300. It makes sense to charge before a journey rather than after one, so that's useful.

I don't need the car every day, one of the (penalties 😄 😄  ) of being retired.

 

 

[altocumulus]

Not too sure this explains it sensibly or even logically, but this is the garage's take on EV / EVCity ...

Just awaiting for the official wording from Toyota on this one. I gather that EV mode will pop you into the HV battery giving up to 40miles on electric. The evcity is the mode that on normal driving (with no charge in the HV battery) it will allow you to accelerate slightly harder whilst keeping it on the battery. Essentially EVcity will do the same as EV mode on your RAV4. The EVmode on your Prius Plug-IN is the electric only at any speed mode! Hopefully this makes sense. Once I receive Toyota's explanation I will forward it across.

 

I suspect Toyota's explanation will parrot the manual...

Edited September 19, 2018 by altocumulus
typo!

[altocumulus]

...and the garage's take on the Battery ..

 

The Prius Plug-In charging system won't charge (despite being plugged in) if it has a full charge. You won't damage it by plugging it in every night.

 

[altocumulus]

Thankfully the charge schedule activated this last night - so I must have forgotten to set something on the previous night.

 

Range indicated for EV is 31.3 miles.

[QuantumFireball]

I don't think EV City gives you any more EV ability, it just makes it a lot harder for the ICE to engage by changing the throttle threshold. Power and speed limit are the same.

Yes, the Battery is carefully managed and monitored, it will absolutely not let you overcharge it or anything remotely dangerous. There is no risk in plugging it in every night (unless you fully charge and leave it for many weeks unused). And as it never really lets it charge fully ("full" on the gauge is more like 85% SOC or something like that) or discharge fully (~20-23% SOC where EV mode disengages and the ICE kicks in) it helps with maintaining the longevity of the Battery.

[Ten Ninety]

I've been playing with EV City over the last couple of days and it does seem to affect the throttle sensitivity. I find EV mode is much more sensitive than HV mode, whereas EV City isn't such a jarring change when you switch. 

[altocumulus]

I noticed yesterday the EV throttle movement was delicate in contrast to the HV mode, the latter needing more pedal to achieve the same acceleration.

 

I've never been fond of the curved ECO display, having gleaned more useful information from watching the one minute MPG bargraph. When in HV mode I notice that on those occasions the Battery is being used the 1 or 2 minute bars are displayed as blank - an odd change to what I've experienced with previous prius and RAVs.

The display always switches on in menu mode (until I find a setting to alter :D).

[altocumulus]

Well - I can understand range anxiety! So glad we didn't decide on a pure EV, and we were tempted!

Aberdeen to home is a tad under 20 miles, rural roads with ups and downs, rising from near sea-level to around 100metres.

Battery range as we left a centre car park was 26.5 miles.

Made it with nothing spare and it's a good job the last 1/2 mile or so is downhill, it replenished the Battery enough to let me reverse into the garage!

Also good there was little traffic as I had to be gentle on the throttle, often remaining below 50mph to keep the momentum.

There on HV, back on EV - combined 133mpg.

 

We've already commented on it likely being our 'best' car to date, it's a pleasure to drive and sit in.  I don't know about noise as I can't hear anything but confounded irritatingly annoying tinnitus. Yes, the boot space is ridiculous, but maybe that'll teach us not to take so many suitcases when we go on holidays! 😎

[Ten Ninety]

11 hours ago, altocumulus said:

I've never been fond of the curved ECO display, having gleaned more useful information from watching the one minute MPG bargraph. When in HV mode I notice that on those occasions the battery is being used the 1 or 2 minute bars are displayed as blank - an odd change to what I've experienced with previous prius and RAVs.

I also used to be a fan of the 1-minute bar graph in my Gen3. The new one is in miles, not minutes (at least, the one on the MFD is) which is nowhere near as useful given that I rarely get near speeds of a mile-a-minute. The blank bars are because there's a separate bar graph for miles per kilowatt hour (sorry if you already know this, but it confused me at first) which you get to by going right from the mpg meter. It would have been more useful to have both on a dual-axis graph, personally. 

I am now actually using the curved ECO display which I found to be redundant in the Gen3 because of the HUD. However, the new moving blue 'recommended' bar is interesting as a guide to throttle position, and it gives a few other interesting bits and bobs like Battery charge. 

Regarding the range indicator - it's incredibly dependent on conditions, driving style and the heating/AC. On my first full charge, I had a range of 31 miles like yours. I actually travelled 32 miles before it 'ran out'. After two weeks of seeing steadily-increasing range being displayed after charging, I saw a potential 40 miles this morning and... didn't even manage to reach 30 before HV mode took over thanks to the wind and rain! Best I've actually travelled so far is about 36 miles, from a displayed estimate of 39. That was an unusually warm morning, though!

[altocumulus]

Yes, I would agree on the dual axis idea - though on pre-PHEV cars the bar graph combined both HV and EV mpgs - there's little to be gained in having to move to another graph just to see what a couple of minutes of EV contributed. As it was, It looked as though I was looking at a broken piano from above, with half its keys missing!

[altocumulus]

BTW, re-visiting EV and EVCity - I'm not sure I noticed any difference when I was switching from one to the other to have a look!

[altocumulus]

And damn the designer who thought it a good idea to give a central control box that can't (easily) be looked in by the front-seat passenger! We'd forgotten that bit of craziness we'd seen on the test drive......

[Ancient Nerd]

At least the PHEV has the Battery as a reason for losing boot space. I still can't see the justification for filling the standard Prius under boot space with a load of polystyrene foam.