PHEV

[altocumulus]

Chargemaster felt it kind 🙂 to 'give' me the communicating version, with a lock (in spite of the point being inside a locked barn).  They said it came within the grant. I had the full UK Govn Grant available and that's paid to them automatically, plus upto 300 from the Scottish Govn which I've had to put in a claim for. The sheet I signed off on had a price of £1240 on it - so I don't know how all the sums added up.

 

I'm glad you mentioned the steering headlights. Admittedly I've only been out once in the real dark - but I too couldn't see any 'steering'.

 

I've given Toyota a nudge on my Climate Prep query - the question has been passed up the line, apparently.

[altocumulus]

I wasn't too fussed about the home usage being displayed, as I have a form of smart meter connected in the house.

 

The web display shows the car charged for 23hours! Rather confusing as the car was scheduled to charge at 0300 this morning (which it did). The Chargemaster registers the time the car is connected, not the charging time. And it doesn't display the action in the Usage Summary.

[altocumulus]

Confused.

1.6 miles journey (albeit a fair part up-hill, and screen demist on), but on EVmode/ECO the ICE took over for the journey.

[PeteB]

2 hours ago, altocumulus said:

Confused.

1.6 miles journey (albeit a fair part up-hill, and screen demist on), but on EVmode/ECO the ICE took over for the journey.

Hmmm, on all four generations of Prius (non-plug-in) that I've had, using the screen demist function would always start the ICE immediately, even if EV mode is successfully selected.

I believe the first PiP did the same, but as the current PHEV has a heat pump, I'm surprised that would be as necessary, but maybe it's logic is that being able to see out the window is less bad for the environment than crashing!

That said, I don't think there are many people in the world outside a select few at the centre of Toyota that understand all the many parameters that rule the way the software in various Hybrid components work.

[Mike J.]

33 minutes ago, PeteB said:

That said, I don't think there are many people in the world outside a select few at the centre of Toyota that understand all the many parameters that rule the way the software in various Hybrid components work.

Probably around 200 in Toyota:

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/long-term-tests/toyota/toyota-prius-2017-long-term-test-review/

‘You know the drive modes: Eco mode alters the response of the throttle and reduces the speed of the blower,’ says Richard. ‘On the Mk3 Prius there were 200 engineers just writing the software for the hybrid control system; the only thing they can’t do is predict the future, and EV mode is you predicting the future. Use it coming to the end of your journey to get the most out of it.

 

[altocumulus]

I'm getting the impression there's not many phev's in the UK - they certainly don't have one at ToyotaGB HQ.

The Battery charge was showing 30.0 miles available, so in normal circumstances ought to have been sufficient for a 1.6 mile journey. It's not as though I floored it up the hills - I did score 94/100 😄

The de-mister was only on for maybe 20seconds out of a 5 minute duration.

[Ten Ninety]

In EV mode, I've now managed to fire up the ICE just once, when flooring the throttle to overtake a particularly problematic Peugeot driver. Once it kicked in, the ICE ran continually for what seemed like ages afterwards, which in the end annoyed me even more than the pillock in the Peugeot. There's a lesson there, somewhere, I'm sure. 

I have noticed that the warm-up cycle for the ICE (or whatever the correct technical term is) seems to last longer on the PHV than it used to on my Gen3 even when the heating is completely off. I've also found that when in HV mode, the ICE provides the heating like it does in a standard hybrid i.e. the ICE will run until it's achieved sufficient temperature to heat the interior.

I've yet to use the front demister but I wouldn't be surprised if it kicks in the ICE like it would in a standard hybrid, as Pete describes above. Maybe once it's done that, it will continue to use it as the heat source?

 

[PeteB]

2 hours ago, Ten Ninety said:

...Once it kicked in, the ICE ran continually for what seemed like ages afterwards... 

...ICE (or whatever the correct technical term is)...

Presumably, using one of the EV mode buttons won't put it back while it's doing this?

ICE, engine, gas engine, petrol engine all seem to get used interchangeably, and I'm sure there are other terms that escape me at this moment...

[Ten Ninety]

10 hours ago, PeteB said:

Presumably, using one of the EV mode buttons won't put it back while it's doing this?

I think it actually remained in EV mode, just with the engine running. However, my memory is not to be trusted these days so it's possible it switched to HV mode. Either way, I didn't think to try pushing the EV City mode button which might have done the trick. I just figured it had done the usual 'I've started so I'll finish' thing.

 

[altocumulus]

Such things are not obvious from the manual, unless it's hidden in the usual mangling of English Syntax!

I'll have to try switching modes and see what happens.

To be honest, I didn't notice the ICE had kicked in until I glanced at the display and saw 69.5mpg!

The trip information screen doesn't display by default as it used to do in my last 4 Toyotas. I haven't found a switch to make it always show.

 

On a slightly off-topic, can the doors be auto-locked? We got used to having that facility on the Rav4 & Rav4Hy.

[Ten Ninety]

If you mean auto-lock as you drive off, I don't think that's available. I can't see it in the manual and it's not on the Carista list of adjustables.

What 'trip information screen' do you mean? I have mine set so it always shows distance and mpg since the last power-on. 

Back on the topic of steering headlights, I plugged Carista in again as I saw the steerable function was listed as a dealer-adjustable setting in the manual. Sadly, it seems that Carista can't access any of the Adaptive High Beam dealer-option settings. However, I did find a separate option in Carista about 'residential mode' for AHB. I've turned this off in the hope that it might now allow AHB to actually trigger main beam below 40mph, which has been a minor annoyance on dark slow corners and unlit 30mph villages. I'll test tomorrow to find out!

[Heidfirst]

12 hours ago, altocumulus said:

On a slightly off-topic, can the doors be auto-locked? We got used to having that facility on the Rav4 & Rav4Hy.

if it uses Touch 2 go to the Car Customisation screen - that is where it is in my Avensis.

[Harters]

9 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

if it uses Touch 2 go to the Car Customisation screen - that is where it is in my Avensis.

Unfortunately the Gen 4 does not have auto lock in the UK.  I have had that feature in my cars for many years now and I really miss it.  Its available in the US and can be configured to lock when driving away or as soon as you put it into drive.

[altocumulus]

Thanks Guys - oh for consistency! So that's a no for auto-lock, and yes we'd gotten used to it!

What 'trip information screen' do you mean? I have mine set so it always shows distance and mpg since the last power-on. 

On my Touch screen, "power on" doesn't show that - where did you find the setting? - I thought I'd trawled through all the customisation options.

[Ten Ninety]

10 hours ago, altocumulus said:

On my Touch screen, "power on" doesn't show that - where did you find the setting? - I thought I'd trawled through all the customisation options.

Sorry, I didn't realise you meant the touch screen. I was referring to the MFD trip info. I don't use the touch screen trip info as I have the map on there. I quite like to see the distance remaining to destination to compare to the estimated EV distance remaining, as it helps me decide at what point I want to switch to HV!

[altocumulus]

Thanks Guys - oh for consistency! So that's a no for auto-lock, and yes we'd gotten used to it!

Quote

What 'trip information screen' do you mean? I have mine set so it always shows distance and mpg since the last power-on. 

On my Touch screen, "power on" doesn't show that - where did you find the setting? - I thought I'd trawled through all the customisation options.

[altocumulus]

^^^Don't know why that last post duplicated a previous one^^^^

Morning trip - Outbound - EVEco - ICE tripped in on front de-mist - toggling with EVCity and HV didn't switch it off.

Inbound - AC clears the screen, albeit slowly - but the ICE didn't kick in.

Interesting to note these little 'quirks'.

I've noticed that on power off, and after clearing request to set/disable theft sensor - there's an option to "Charge Immediately" on connection - but it's greyed out by default to ON; and I don't have any option to default to OFF. It's not causing any hassle, just annoying as I have to remember to set the schedule before connection otherwise the charge will start and once it's started it won't cancel......

 

[Ten Ninety]

Definitely worth knowing that front demist kicks in the ICE. Shall we see if it does the same if switching it on in EVCity mode? I'll try tomorrow if I remember!

Regarding the 'charge now' issue - would it be worth setting a schedule for every day and over-riding that when necessary, rather than setting a schedule each time you need it? It's pretty simple to choose 'charge now' or 'change next charging event' if you want to over-ride the schedule. I did it that way because I use the car every day, but even if you're a more occasional user it might be easier?

A few other observations from a cold week so far:

Pre-heating the car (using the remote) causes the windows to mist up when it's cold in the garage, but this clears quickly when in Ready mode with the air-con on. This suggests that the air-con doesn't switch on during pre-heat despite being left 'on' at power-off. Not sure if this is another 'quirk', or whether it's just because I've set it to let Auto manage the air-con status. I might see if turning that off changes it.

The recirculation button is afflicted by the same idiocy as the one in my Gen3 (and the GS and Auris for that matter) - it decides for itself to go to outside air mode when the outside temp falls below a certain level and keeps on doing this if the temperature rises above that level then falls below again. This isn't a 'quirk' as it's expected design these days, but I will continue to be driven insane through the winter when it decides to switch to 'fresh' air several times during a journey, always at the time when I'm behind a disgusting diesel or passing a field of manure. Bring back the manual slider that cars used to have, which would stay in the position that I put it in and not move until I told it to!

Having got bored of getting cold feet with the heating off and cycling the air-con occasionally myself to demist, I've taken to running with the heating and air-con on all the time. This has *destroyed* the EV range. I got barely over 20 miles on EV this morning. I am disappointed with that - I'd expected a big drop in cold temps, but that's worse than my worst expectations. Fuel economy in Eco mode is only 10-15% down, as one would expect from any hybrid in the cold. So I'm still very happy to be hitting 75mpg on the way home when starting with zero EV Battery, but as a result of the reduced EV range on the way out my overall economy for the round trip has dropped from 180mpg+ on a warm day to 150+mpg on a cool day, to barely scraping 110mpg on a cold day. Still pretty cheap motoring, but I really do need to stop talking about getting a charging point at work and start making it happen.

Finally, just to update my previous post, the Carista setting made no difference to the AHB which still refuses to tip main beam on until I hit 40mph (yet once they're on will keep them on until I drop below 30-odd). I still think the AHB is impressive despite its lethargy in reacting to oncoming traffic (which is now seemingly default behaviour for most people anyway) and much better than the basic on/off auto high-beam on the Lexus.

 

 

[PeteB]

2 hours ago, Ten Ninety said:

The recirculation button is afflicted by the same idiocy as the one in my Gen3 (and the GS and Auris for that matter) - it decides for itself to go to outside air mode when the outside temp falls below a certain level and keeps on doing this...

... I still think the AHB is impressive despite its lethargy in reacting to oncoming traffic (which is now seemingly default behaviour for most people anyway)...

I'm pretty sure there's an option in the settings somewhere that allows you to cancel this behaviour (at least on the non plug-in, but I'd expect them both to be the same on this one) - when I've more time I'll try to find it.

The plug-in has a different (and more) headlights than my Excel ordinaire and it seems the AHB behaviour is different too.  When I tried this feature, I found it won't allow high beams to come on below 27 mph, and even below this speed is dangerous on the pitch black, single track, very twisty local country roads with lots of trees and high banks.  Trying to pull the stalk to hold the flasher on while working overtime with the steering is no fun at all.  Also, on most road types, it took so long to dip I got flashed by at least 19 out of 20 oncoming vehicles, plus I'm simply not happy dazzling people that much, especially as these are the brightest lights I've ever driven with.  SO mine is permanently switched off (at least there is that option - my salesman told me he recently drove something where the AHB can't be disabled!!!)  Ugh!

[Ancient Nerd]

2 hours ago, PeteB said:

I'm pretty sure there's an option in the settings somewhere that allows you to cancel this behaviour (at least on the non plug-in, but I'd expect them both to be the same on this one) - when I've more time I'll try to find it.

There is definitely an option to stop the recirculation coming on at startup, because I changed it on the Gen 4 after getting very fed up with it. The snag is that it was over two years ago, so I can't remember what the setting is. 

So far, it hasn't affected me on the PHEV, however I guess it will do so soon as the weather gets colder.

The one thing that I do remember, is that its description on the car menus bears no relation to recirculation. I think it was some sort of ECO setting. I only found it because someone else got there first. I suspect that it might have been Grumpy Cabbie. If not, then possibly it was on Priuschat somewhere.

Anyway, I'll look soon.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Ancient Nerd
Spelling

[PeteB]

5 hours ago, PeteB said:

I'm pretty sure there's an option in the settings somewhere that allows you to cancel this behaviour (at least on the non plug-in, but I'd expect them both to be the same on this one) - when I've more time I'll try to find it.

This is what my non-plug-in manual says:

2 = Settings that can be changed using the navigation/multimedia system

3 = Settings that can be changed by any authorized Toyota dealer or repairer, or another duly qualified and equipped professional 

[altocumulus]

I really need to get out more!

 

Yes, I'll change the schedule to always charge overnight - it'll get ignored when the plug isn't connected - don't think there's much point in charging to add on 5 miles which is my normal Saturday morning "get-a-paper" run.

I've not done much night driving as yet, so other than the one occasion to get to the airport haven't really experienced any issues with the lights. They are very bright and they seem as reactive on high beam as my previous RAVs, but I definitely didn't observe any lighting around corners!

I've got my Toyota Purchase survey to fill in sometime, so I'll have to remember all these issues in the feedback columns. I have no further info on the charging schedule also including heat/chill before departure. HQ GB don't have a model to test, so they've escalated the question to Europe. They are 'talking' with my garage as they have a demonstrator - but I've had nothing back from my salesman (he says he's keeping well away to avoid confusing the issue 😄 ) - though how long does it take to do a few experiments!!!!!?

 

We're still looking at this car as being the best car we've had in 45 years, that's saying a lot against the 2 RAV4s and the RAVHy....Mind, I'm still waiting for the odometer to click onto 500 miles!

[QuantumFireball]

On 10/27/2018 at 7:27 PM, Ten Ninety said:

I have noticed that the warm-up cycle for the ICE (or whatever the correct technical term is) seems to last longer on the PHV than it used to on my Gen3 even when the heating is completely off. I've also found that when in HV mode, the ICE provides the heating like it does in a standard hybrid i.e. the ICE will run until it's achieved sufficient temperature to heat the interior.

In my Gen 1 Plug-in, I've noticed sometimes once the ICE engages when in EV mode, it may keep running as long as you're on the throttle. This behaviour seems a bit random.

And once it does start, it will continue through the whole warm-up cycle, which could take a few minutes if the ambient temperature is low.

I'm surprised the ICE starts when you use the front demister - is the heat pump not powerful enough?

[Ten Ninety]

OK, so I have nothing further to report on whether the front demister starts the ICE when in EV City mode, because... I forgot to plug the damned car in last night! I'll have a go tomorrow if I can. The heat pump seems quite capable of heating the cabin so I'm not sure why the ICE kicks in. Maybe it's just a bit of code for the ECU that someone at Toyota forgot to delete for the PHV.

14 hours ago, PeteB said:

This is what my non-plug-in manual says:

2 = Settings that can be changed using the navigation/multimedia system

3 = Settings that can be changed by any authorized Toyota dealer or repairer, or another duly qualified and equipped professional 

Thanks. I have tried those and they don't seem to affect the recirculation going off automatically. Amusingly, if you want further proof of Toyota's utterly random approach to car specifications, on the PHV the first of those two options is actually configurable on the Navigation unit!

18 hours ago, Ancient Nerd said:

There is definitely an option to stop the recirculation coming on at startup, because I changed it on the Gen 4 after getting very fed up with it. The snag is that it was over two years ago, so I can't remember what the setting is. 

My problem is the opposite - I want recirculation on all the time and never want outside air! When the outside temp drops below a certain level (I think it's 3 degrees) then recirc goes off and it opens to outside air. There was no way of preventing this on the Gen3 or Auris that I ever found, so I expect the PHV will be the same. If you do find an obscure setting somewhere, do let us know!

As an aside, the GS is even more frustrating regarding this issue because the posh Lexus recirculation button actually has an 'auto' setting as well as on or off. I got excited when I saw that because I assumed that when manually set to 'on' it would, you know, actually stay on all the time. Sadly, it still insists on doing its own thing and turning it off when it wants to!

20 hours ago, PeteB said:

The plug-in has a different (and more) headlights than my Excel ordinaire and it seems the AHB behaviour is different too.  When I tried this feature, I found it won't allow high beams to come on below 27 mph, and even below this speed is dangerous on the pitch black, single track, very twisty local country roads with lots of trees and high banks.  Trying to pull the stalk to hold the flasher on while working overtime with the steering is no fun at all.  Also, on most road types, it took so long to dip I got flashed by at least 19 out of 20 oncoming vehicles, plus I'm simply not happy dazzling people that much, especially as these are the brightest lights I've ever driven with.  SO mine is permanently switched off (at least there is that option - my salesman told me he recently drove something where the AHB can't be disabled!!!)  Ugh!

The PHV Adaptive HB is faster than the Lexus Auto HB, which is what yours sounds more like. I hate that for the same reasons you do. However, in the PHV I think I've only been flashed once when it hasn't picked up someone coming around a crested bend. It's less courteous than I would choose to be, but no worse than many others these days (perhaps because they're all on AHB as well). Most of the time, it's eerily clever at screening the beams. It's just annoying and pointless that it will not switch on below 40mph. The dipped beams are very good but as you describe, local twisty roads benefit from high beam even at low speed.

[Heidfirst]

20 hours ago, Ancient Nerd said:

There is definitely an option to stop the recirculation coming on at startup, because I changed it on the Gen 4 after getting very fed up with it. The snag is that it was over two years ago, so I can't remember what the setting is. 

So far, it hasn't affected me on the PHEV, however I guess it will do so soon as the weather gets colder.

The one thing that I do remember, is that its description on the car menus bears no relation to recirculation. I think it was some sort of ECO setting. I only found it because someone else got there first. I suspect that it might have been Grumpy Cabbie. If not, then possibly it was on Priuschat somewhere.

Anyway, I'll look soon.

On an Avensis with Touch 2 if you go setup>vehicle> then there are options for vehicle customisation & ventilation screens but there are actually entries which affect ventilation behaviour in both screens.