PHEV

[Phil T]

Well I picked up my ex demo phev today and went through the options list with the one mechanic that knows anything about them. Auto a/c is off on the dealer list now. There did not seem to be any settings to change how the lights worked. He did say that the ICE would come on regardless of which mode you are driving in once the heater is above the ambient temperature and the fan is drawing load, as it does on the demist setting. So much for driving in Low emission zones.

After the gen 4 Prius I love it. Lights are much better than the standard Prius LED’s and main beam is like my old Cibi pencil beams, blinding. Going through the multimedia settings seems strange. Some settings were there when I took a first look. Later when I wanted to change settings they had disappeared. I still can’t find the dash illumination setting, and it took several goes to find the HUD adjustment, very strange. 

Glad that my partner stopped me getting the C-HR with the cut your throat black interior. I thought the PHEV would be too much like the standard hybrid, not so.

[altocumulus]

Chuckles - we went to the garage looking for a smaller vehicle than the RAV4Hy - and the CH-R was our choice......Until we saw the damn interior colour, bad enough in the front, but for rear passengers very claustrophobic.

By contrast the light interior of the Prius makes the interior feel much bigger than it is! We're amazed at how wider it feels, than the RAV, while being a narrower car (though a trifle longer).

 

RAV4Hy and PHEV are both brilliant cars in their own ways - both have their foibles, faults, niggles....We still think the PHEV edges ahead in the scoring; though we may live to regret not having a 4*4 when the Scottish snow arrives.....

[Phil T]

I also traded a Rav for the standard Prius. Stopping in icy conditions caught me out twice. The first one, I pulled up at a T junction and nothing happened, I slid out into a busy main road. My luck was in though, there was a car turning right, which had a clear gap and a car coming from the other direction saw my predicament and stopped as I slid up to the opposite kerb. Second time I was easing down a hill and thought, just try the brakes to see how slippery it was. Nothing happened! I just managed to brake hard where two cars had parked and left  clear space underneath. In the Rav I never thought twice about what the conditions were like, I didn't think twice when I was loading it either.

Still the ride is better in the Prius and bends are faster, not as fast as in my twenties though!

[altocumulus]

Scary!

I once had that experience, but it was in a Freelander (probably on a par with a Fiat Uno as being one of our very worst of cars). It was absolutely useless in winter.

[Heidfirst]

1 hour ago, altocumulus said:

I once had that experience, but it was in a Freelander (probably on a par with a Fiat Uno as being one of our very worst of cars). It was absolutely useless in winter.

Surely with a Freelander that must have been down to the tyres fitted?

[altocumulus]

2 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

Surely with a Freelander that must have been down to the tyres fitted?

Not really, it was all round rubbish car. It 'went' wrong within 30 minutes of driving it from the forecourt - adding more petrol stretched the brackets that held the tank in place, and it took a few weeks for Landrover to 'find' the fault where the tank was rubbing against the inside of one of the rear wheels.....

[Heidfirst]

well, I was really referring to it not stopping/being useless in winter but hey-ho ... 😛

[altocumulus]

4 hours ago, Phil T said:

 

Still the ride is better in the Prius and bends are faster, not as fast as in my twenties though!

The Prius feels faster all round - but I guess that's because it's closer to the ground which makes it seem faster 😄

...and we've always wanted leather seats....

[Ten Ninety]

18 hours ago, Phil T said:

 He did say that the ICE would come on regardless of which mode you are driving in once the heater is above the ambient temperature and the fan is drawing load, as it does on the demist setting. So much for driving in Low emission zones.

I'm not sure I understand quite what that means, but I can confirm the ICE fires up when using front demist even in EV City mode. However, that is the only time the heater has caused the ICE to come on. The heat pump will quite happily heat the cabin without bothering the ICE, until the front demist button is pressed. 

[Phil T]

The extra load that the fan on max uses, plus the heat pump load = ICE . Some heat pumps are using 600 watts. I would assume demist is running it at max.

[altocumulus]

10 hours ago, Phil T said:

The extra load that the fan on max uses, plus the heat pump load = ICE . Some heat pumps are using 600 watts. I would assume demist is running it at max.

It probably is! The front de-mist clears the screen in about 10 seconds - using AC alone takes a couple of minutes. But I'm glad we've concluded that, I was getting a bit worried by the unexplained ICE kick in.

Another 'thing' the manual doesn't explain and the local garage didn't know.

[kithmo]

22 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

Surely with a Freelander that must have been down to the tyres fitted?

Same as with the Prius IMO, winter tyres v summer.

[Ten Ninety]

16 hours ago, Phil T said:

The extra load that the fan on max uses, plus the heat pump load = ICE . Some heat pumps are using 600 watts. I would assume demist is running it at max.

OK, I see what you mean now. That's not how it appears to work, though. You can crank the fan up to max yourself and the ICE doesn't do anything - it's only when you push the demist button that the engine starts. I don't think the fan speed has got anything to do with it at all, as mine is set to crank up slowly to its max setting (done via Carista) but the ICE kicks in as soon as you push the demist button.

In any case, the load generated by the heat pump and fan is still going to be a fraction of that required to propel nearly two tonnes up a hill at 50mph and it doesn't need the ICE for that!

[Heidfirst]

1 hour ago, Ten Ninety said:

In any case, the load generated by the heat pump and fan is still going to be a fraction of that required to propel nearly two tonnes up a hill at 50mph and it doesn't need the ICE for that!

Possibly using different batteries/electrical systems though - 12V v main drive?

[altocumulus]

51 minutes ago, Heidfirst said:

Possibly using different batteries/electrical systems though - 12V v main drive?

Probably correct, though if it can propel the vehicle at upto 85mph, it can (surely?) spare enough juice for a blower to clear the screen. It's not only that, though, once the de-mister is switched off, the ICE remains on - in my case it was for the whole journey of 9 miles....

[Phil T]

True but is it keeping both batteries topped up?

Now yesterday I did 30 miles on the traction Battery. Put on charge when I got home and it was fully charged when I went to bed, and I left it on charge. This morning the 12v Battery only had 11 volts in it and of course nothing wanted to play, it would not allow any attempt at starting the ICE. No start. Does the 12v Battery get a charge off the mains charger, or is it from the alternator. Which comes to the problem if the ICE is not kicking in what charges the 12v battery when running on traction battery power.

After I put the 12v battery on charge it started ok when it reached 12v. The ICE started when I put the demister on and with the ICE running it was putting 14.52 volts into the 12v battery, which is about the  right charge voltage with the alternator running. Getting home I checked the voltage on the 12v battery and it is showing 12.58 volts which seems a bit low after doing 60 odd miles today.

[altocumulus]

The charge only affects the main drive Battery afaik, but you make a point on what is charging the 12V if we 'only' use EV mode....Is it an alternator that can use both ICE and the EV?

[Phil T]

I have been in an hour and have just checked the 12v Battery voltage and it is now 12.71 volts which is a little higher than I would have expected if it was not being charged. I have just gone out after 2 hours and turned on all the accessories that I can while charging and the charge actually went up to 13.4 volts, so I would assume from that we are getting the 12v Battery charged from the mains charger. Which does not explain how the Battery was flat this morning!

[QuantumFireball]

There's no alternator, there's a 12V DC-DC converter that should be running whenever the car is running (in any EV/HV mode), or when charging the traction Battery. It takes power from the high-voltage system.

I'd say maybe check the 12V terminals while the car is charging, it should be a higher voltage. If not, maybe there's a problem. Also make sure you're not running the car in accessory mode for prolonged periods as this will discharge the 12V (with no means to charge).

[Phil T]

Yes Alternator, I meant to say "like an alternator would", nevermind! I took the car into the dealers for their quick look and between several hours and several discussions with the mechanic, they haven't got a clue. I do not recommend lunch of tea and biscuits! They provide sandwiches at the Lexus garage.

Ah you have left the lights on. No!

Ah the dash cam is draining the Battery.  No the usb turns off with the ignition. I ran it for two years in the Prius gen4. Ah this is a different car. It still turns off. I don't think.so. I checked. No it has residual voltage on it still. No I checked with a voltmeter. 

It doesn't charge with the mains charger. Yes it does I have checked.

When you ran the aircon/heater it drains the Battery in the morning, the charger turns off when it's fully charged. No the mains charger turns back on when you do that, and charges the 12v Battery as well.

I'll check current leakage. Fine.

There is 500mA drain on the battery. That does not explain how it was completely flat overnight, I have left interior lights on overnight on other cars without adverse effects.

Must be a faulty battery. What about the 500mA drain. 

We are replacing the battery, next week fine? If I must.

While we are at it. The Phone charger does not work. Ah you need a special phone for that. Yes I have one. Ah what model though.Just listen it does not work, it will not turn on. Please don't hit your head against the wall. LOOK the phone worked fine  in the last car. Ah we will have a look.

Further installments next week., if I'm not had up for GBH!

[Ten Ninety]

The 12V Battery does seem to be a weak point. I think they are much lower capacity than most normal cars because they don't need to power a starter motor. A number of folks have managed to flatten it just by running in Accessory mode for a while. If there's a small drain, that in any normal car wouldn't be a problem, it might be enough to cause a problem here?

[Phil T]

Not much chance of leaving it at the airport then! I would have thought even though it is low a decent Battery would still be flat discharging at that rate. I would have thought 50mA parasitic drain would be nearer the mark.

Oh I forgot that I must be leaving the key too close to the car. It communicates with the car. Yes That's why I turn it off. Oh.  

[PeteB]

The 12V Battery has always been an issue with the Prius and similar Hybrids.

Gen 1: had an inexplicably high parasitic drain, the cause of which was never fully discovered.  Obviously some computer memory, alarm and receiver for remote central locking.  Generally reckoned if all was perfect, it would last just under 4 weeks at an airport.  Gen 1s had added problem of the issue not being understood at first, and the Battery had often been flattened many times before the car was sold, meaning it was already close to death.  This was due to the small number of sales (about 1,500 in the 3 years it was sold in the UK), the cars were flat when they came off the ship, and flattened again during their time on the dealer's lot.

My second Gen 1's Battery was replaced at about 3 months old and was still in the car when I sold it 9 years later!

Gen 2 was slightly better drain-wise and would last up to about 5 weeks if left parked with a full battery in perfect condition.  And I understand the 12V was disconnected during shipping.

Gen 3 better still, despite having extra features like key-less entry sensors - estimated life 4½-5 weeks.

Gen 4 seems slightly more prone to failure, and my 12V battery was replaced at 13 months old.  Not seen any calculations or tests to get idea of parked life expectancy.

However, a boot light or interior light left on will flatten it in just a few hours on all versions.  Additionally, Auris Hybrids for a while had a fault with the hazard light software that randomly left an ECU (computer) running and flattened the battery until a software fix was installed.  As has been said, sitting in accessory or ignition mode for more than a few minutes will likely drain it.

A Volvo I had in the 1990s was at the other end of the scale and could cope with parking lights left on for over 2 days and still start easily!

Since my early dasy in a Gen 1 I've always carried a jump starter just in case, and it's got me out of trouble a few times over the years.  Currently, I have one of the tiny ones that lives in a seat back pocket, making life easier of the boot won't open!

[Phil T]

I can’t remember that far back when I needed to carry around a charger, oh happy days.

Looks like an investment in a power pack 🤑

 

[Catlover]

7 hours ago, Phil T said:

I can’t remember that far back when I needed to carry around a charger, oh happy days.       Looks like an investment in a power pack 🤑

 

And you don’t need an expensive power pack, it’s not as if it has to turn a starter motor. Enough power to “light up” the computer and main Battery Is sufficient - that’s why the standard 12v Battery I low powered.  I paid about £35 for one off Amazon, but you can get them elsewhere. Mine has a torch built in, and I can charge mobile phones/tablets from it. Fits in a pocket/handbag, so very handy, though I keep mine in the pocket behind drivers seat like someone else said. It just needs charging every 2or3 months, this is done via a common android connector.