PHEV

[altocumulus]

*coughs* - at least the 12 volt is under the bonnet 😄

I have a power pack which is been a god-send for when I've needed it. It was originally bought for the visitors who kept leaving their lights on outside our house (don't ask!). Problem is with this pack it didn't have leads long enough to stretch between the G2&3 connect points under the bonnet. Great little thing though.....

[Phil T]

Pete. Do you have shares in Toyota, if not they should be giving you a big loyalty discount, you are a truly converted follower, you must have had a lot of faith buying one of the first models.  I know why so many people love Toyota now after my third one. I was in Pinkstones, my dealer, last year. There was a decorator waiting to collect his van from a service and MOT. He said it's 7 years old now and apart from servicing, tyres and brakes, after 200,000 miles nothing has gone wrong nor failed to start. The service agent came out with his new MOT and service book, all was fine and said see you at the next service. When I had my Rav4 I had chrome strips put on the doors, mainly to help protect from dinks from other car doors. After my yearly service I noticed two of the chrome (plastic) strips were crazing. Looking at when I bought the strips, they were just over a year old. Sod it I thought, big argument with the service department. I took it in armed with the receipts, asked for the service manager, he came out and came and had a look. I was all ready for a big argument, he turned round and said "Ah yes we have had a few like that, I'll order replacements for them, give you a ring when they are in, then we can get you a courtesy car, as we let the adhesive set over two days".I was completely dumb struck. Previous dealers I have had to argue until I was blue in the face. Last year the cloth drivers seat in the Prius gen4 was showing signs of premature wear. The manager said I agree shouldn't be like that, new seat.

Thanks for all the power pack information. I was thinking will a smaller version do the job. Certainly gives you peace of mind with 200 odd amps on call when needed. Can they be used on the bench when a 12v source is needed for powering the odd job. I have a 12v gel lead acid that came out of an alarm unit, that has been a godsend for using as a test source, but it must be getting near the end of its life as it has been doing reliable service for over 10 years.

And Joe, I think you may have let the cat out of the bag! Fits in a handbag eh   Where abouts in Cheshire are you?

[PeteB]

5 hours ago, Phil T said:

Pete. Do you have shares in Toyota, if not they should be giving you a big loyalty discount, you are a truly converted follower, you must have had a lot of faith buying one of the first models...

I don't, and they don't.

I'd watched the development of the Prius on various news media and programmes like Tomorrow's World, and was eager to try one.  I had a test drive when they first became available in late 2000, and while blown away by the driving experience, was put off by the lack of rear wiper and heated mirrors (the latter something I never thought I'd be without again since mid 1980s).  I was also rather put off by my first Toyota, a Yaris, which had lots of problems and a dealer reminiscent of a 1970s British Leyland dealer - always saying they couldn't find faults until I took the service manger out for a drive.

However, the Prius technology and driving dynamics nagged me, and in 2002 I had another test drive and decided I'd try and live with the missing equipment.  I was worried about long term reliability of the Hybrid system though, so searched for an ex-demo to reduce the investment risk.  I bought one from a dealer in Norwich (not the one my Yaris came from) and never looked back (especially when the mirrors were fogged up and rear window was covered in dirt or raindrops 😁 ).  Sadly, 6 months later, it was totalled in an accident, and I was so converted by the drive already, I phoned the dealer and agreed a price for their current demonstrator before a crane arrived to lift my car off where it landed!

In 2006 I got involved with a startup Private Hire firm setting up London's first eco-friendly service with an initial fleet of 5 Gen 2 Prius - and after a 30-year IT career became a minicab driver for a year.   During this time at least 10 clients bought a Prius of their own, influenced by my enthusiasm for the cars and explanations of how they worked.

At the end of the year the company had about 40 cars, and I moved into the office to become their Fleet Manager, a post I held for the next 4 years, after which I worked for them remotely looking after various admin functions until I retired in 2014.  Last I heard, they had over 600 cars.  During my time there I was lent a number of other Hybrids to try out, including Honda Civic and Insight and Lexus RX and LS.  I've also since driven Lexus NX, Toyota C-HR, Plug-in Prius (1st version) Yaris and Auris Hybrids.  In total, I've done over 300,000 miles in Hybrids since 2002.  I hate driving almost anything else, apart from EVs and PHEVs, but none have ticked my particular set of boxes - yet!

[PeteB]

5 hours ago, Phil T said:

...When I had my Rav4 I had chrome strips put on the doors, mainly to help protect from dinks from other car doors. After my yearly service I noticed two of the chrome (plastic) strips were crazing. Looking at when I bought the strips, they were just over a year old. Sod it I thought, big argument with the service department. I took it in armed with the receipts, asked for the service manager, he came out and came and had a look. I was all ready for a big argument, he turned round and said "Ah yes we have had a few like that, I'll order replacements for them...

When my 2nd Prius was about 5 years old (the original Prius had 5 years' warranty including RAC cover) like many other the alloy wheels had become corroded, and at my last service before the warranty ran out the service manager said he'd replace them.  I actually told him they still worked just fine, but at my next visit he had new ones fitted anyway.

[altocumulus]

Power pack I have can be used to power laptop, charge phones etc. It's an all-round use....

Wish I could same the same about my experiences with Toyota! Yes, they're good (in parts). Our Gen2 developed dodgy brakes at 3 years and a bit - they blamed it on the regenerating capability! Wanted to charge me over 800 during a service to sort them out. The Salesman must have been forewarned 😄 we exchanged to a Gen3....with that 800 "paid" by Sales to Servicing...

[altocumulus]

I've just passed 500 miles since new - I have about 3/4 tank available with a projected range of 520 miles 'til empty.

Battery charging seems to have peaked at around 33.5 miles. Just done a round trip of 10 miles, that 'cost' me 10.6 miles on the Battery - better out than inward. It's not my driving style that's the issue, just the geography of our location :D.

[Phil T]

Pete, so it was your cars I was swearing at. I commuted around London on my motorbike during that time, and was amazed at the proliferation of Prius cars. All the Junior Ministers had them, any higher up had Jags. Most of the chauffeurs loved them, it was not until the gen4 came out that I felt they were an acceptable design. I was tempted by the Prius +, but bought the Rav. The hybrid version was horrible after the diesel Rav the Lexus version also. I think the Prius is the best of the lot. Next year should open up the choice with the Corolla and Camray on dedicated platforms, with the new starting gear. The cars they added hybrid drive to never seemed right, non of the present batch come near the Prius including the C-HR. The stretched Lexus version of the C-HR looks good though, felt a bit more roomy in comparison, but at the extra cost it should be very very good ! I’m not sure what mpg I should expect from the PHEV running on hybrid rather than Battery, but so far it looks good. Time will tell.

Judging from tails of some of the dealers, there are still the rough ones out there, but compared with the competition who all seem to want to pass the buck, I’m very happy to drive Toyota.

[altocumulus]

That's the only downside to the Prius - they become the favourite of taxi drivers - though not in Aberdeen.

Hopefully the poor boot in the PHEV will dissuade, and they stay with the 'normal' Prius.

The RAV4 Hy's a good car.....

[Catlover]

22 hours ago, Phil T said:

And Joe, I think you may have let the cat out of the bag! Fits in a handbag eh   Where abouts in Cheshire are you?

Handbags only on Saturday nights, and Chester is local and active on Saturdays 👍

[Ten Ninety]

9 hours ago, Phil T said:

I’m not sure what mpg I should expect from the PHEV running on hybrid rather than battery, but so far it looks good. Time will tell.

I've been pleasantly surprised by HV mode economy in mine. It spends a lot of time on Battery power even on a journey where the EV Battery isn't charged - more than my Gen3 ever did. That's possibly because it can harvest more from re-gen - once the 'normal' hybrid Battery is full it starts filling up the EV battery again automatically.

I'd be interested to hear how it compares to your Gen4 anyway.

[Phil T]

Jay the gen 4 was averaging 63mpg, but it spent a lot of time in the Peak District, if I did a run to Nantwich which for me from Stoke is almost flat it happily did 70. Just before I sold it when we had that nice weather a few weeks back, we spent a lot of the time exploring new cafes around the Peak District, it’s a hard life being retired but someone has to do it! I was amazed that it was doing over 80 mpg and I measure tank to tank. If I did a run down to London not sitting in the outside lane for too long it was happily doing 70. A run down to Gatwick airport returned 75. In the 2 1/2 years of ownership it never went below 60 on any tankful. I noticed on my last run in the PHV to Hartington lots of steep hills, about 25 miles each way. I went out on Battery, on one hill I had 17 miles left by the time I had got to the top it was down to 10. It regenerated 5 miles going down. I thought that was impressive. The gen4 would race the engine on long descents to burn off the extra generated electricity when the Battery was full, so this one is making better use of the regen power.I came back in hybrid mode after emptying the Battery, and it was showing 180mpg. After the battery was showing some charge the ice hardly kicked in. Just hope it keeps it up, will have to visit more cafes. 😁 ☕

[altocumulus]

8 hours ago, Phil T said:

Jay the gen 4 was averaging 63mpg, but it spent a lot of time in the Peak District, if I did a run to Nantwich which for me from Stoke is almost flat it happily did 70. Just before I sold it when we had that nice weather a few weeks back, we spent a lot of the time exploring new cafes around the Peak District, it’s a hard life being retired but someone has to do it! I was amazed that it was doing over 80 mpg and I measure tank to tank. If I did a run down to London not sitting in the outside lane for too long it was happily doing 70. A run down to Gatwick airport returned 75. In the 2 1/2 years of ownership it never went below 60 on any tankful. I noticed on my last run in the PHV to Hartington lots of steep hills, about 25 miles each way. I went out on battery, on one hill I had 17 miles left by the time I had got to the top it was down to 10. It regenerated 5 miles going down. I thought that was impressive. The gen4 would race the engine on long descents to burn off the extra generated electricity when the battery was full, so this one is making better use of the regen power.I came back in hybrid mode after emptying the battery, and it was showing 180mpg. After the battery was showing some charge the ice hardly kicked in. Just hope it keeps it up, will have to visit more cafes. 😁 ☕

I would agree the re-gen seems more effective in the PHV than I recall in the Gen2/3 and RAV. I use 2.5 miles of Battery travelling 0.5 miles out of our village on EV, gain it all back by the time I get to the next village. In most journeys the EV range is pretty good, though there are swings and roundabouts depending on which way we go.

I doubt we'll do it soon, but a real pointer for us would be the Leeds to the M6, A68. Gen3 would give me around 65-70, RAV4 60 and RAV4Hy 65.....I would keep that MPG until I reached the Borders where the hills are real killers....RAV4Hy would be down at 55 by Aberdeen - mind averaging around 60mph I can't grumble too much....

[Ten Ninety]

So today, actually driving in daytime sunlight for once, I saw another PHV on the road for the first time ever! I couldn't really miss it, given that it was in Spirited Aqua! 🤢😄 I was going to wave, but saw the driver was female and decided I'd better not.

These cars are still a real rarity in the wilderness that is East Anglia, although to be fair any decent or interesting car is a rarity in these parts. My wife was amused to find herself trundling down the A11 the other day, completely boxed in by an entire herd of Norfolk-default stinking Peugeot diesels. Although I'm not sure herd is the best collective noun to use. A !Removed! of Peugeots perhaps? A merde? A carcinogenic stench? Whatever, they're everywhere around here, so spotting a fellow connoisseur of clean propulsion was a pleasant surprise.

Edited to LOL at the swear filter on here again. A word that rhymes with herd but begins with a t is apparently verboten. Surely the word Peugeot is far more offensive!

Edited November 9, 2018 by Ten Ninety

[Phil T]

How about a pollution of Peugeots  I had the same thing this morning.

[altocumulus]

PHVs are quite common for our part of Aberdeenshire - the vast majority are Outlanders. There are a few Kia PHVs and EVs, even one or two BMW EVs.

Only one Prius is to be seen and that's a Gen2.

Of our three Toyota Garages across NE Scotland, Dundee and Aberdeen don't advertise any Prius. The garage in Elgin has a red PHV demo.

[Ten Ninety]

On 11/9/2018 at 7:58 PM, Phil T said:

How about a pollution of Peugeots  I had the same thing this morning.

Ha! The perfect collective noun! I shall be using that henceforth! 😄 

On a separate note, have you been out in the dark yet? Any chance you could test out your adaptive high beam and let us know how they operate, as per my other thread on this issue?

[Phil T]

Jay I have been out in the dark for a few miles, and did notice the corners lighting up. When the mechanic changed a few setting with me, I noticed there was a setting for wide or narrow for the lights, I think it referred to main beam, I left it at factory setting, whatever that is. Never went far enough to see when the main beam would switch, and on street lighting it never switched. If I get a chance I will go for a proper night run.

[Phil T]

Well after Mum let me stay up late and go out in the dark 

In the interest of science and Jay, venturing into darkest Staffordshire I can conclude that:-

The lights do not light up corners.

Fogs are the best I have had, much better range than the gen4.

Auto Main beam comes on after 40mpg and turns off at 30.

The main beam does not light up oncoming cars or cars you are following.

Not easy to see the hole it makes in the beam to cut dazzle but following a car in front, you could see the beam cutoff below the car and the hedges either side were lit up.

The dip beam is so wide you think its is lighting up corners. Better than my Passat that lit up the fogs as corner lights.

And relying on Auto Main beam is Dangerous 

[Phil T]

Adaptive High-beam System I did note in the handbook page 435 customisable features page 712

: If the vehicle speed is approximately 30 km/h (19 mph) or more, the area in the direction that the vehicle is turning will be illuminated more brightly than other areas while driving on a curve.

customisable Intensity adjustment of the high beams when driving around a curve (illuminates the area in the direction vehicle is turning more brightly) default ON

No specific mention of cornering lights. If it is brighter it is suttle.

I did note that

Vehicle speed at which the brightness and illuminated area adjustment of the high beams changes mode Default 75mph option of 63mph or 50mph.

Way too fast in my opinion. Though mine illuminated at 40mph ??? still way too fast

Back in the dealers for a new 12v Battery tomorrow, will see what it is set for.

[Ten Ninety]

20 hours ago, Phil T said:

Well after Mum let me stay up late and go out in the dark 

In the interest of science and Jay, venturing into darkest Staffordshire I can conclude that:-

The lights do not light up corners.

Fogs are the best I have had, much better range than the gen4.

Auto Main beam comes on after 40mpg and turns off at 30.

The main beam does not light up oncoming cars or cars you are following.

Not easy to see the hole it makes in the beam to cut dazzle but following a car in front, you could see the beam cutoff below the car and the hedges either side were lit up.

The dip beam is so wide you think its is lighting up corners. Better than my Passat that lit up the fogs as corner lights.

And relying on Auto Main beam is Dangerous 

Thanks for testing, Phil. That's exactly the same as my car, which suggests this isn't a fault but expected behaviour. Either Toyota have messed up the default settings for UK cars, or they have crippled them by disabling the low speed mode (wide beam) of the AHB function. 

The dipped beam is indeed very wide, but I find its reach is not very long. This exacerbates the problem of the AHB system not activating main beam below 40mph. 

[Phil T]

Jay

Last night I drove a narrow twisty road with high walls and hedges on the other side, the cutoff is so severe that even at 20mph it was dangerous. No point in having AHB if you have to revert to manual mode to see where you are going. And according to the handbook default operation of AHB is 75mph with 50mph as the lowest, that makes no sense at all. Will ask the mechanics opinion, but expect the shrugged shoulder answer!

[Ten Ninety]

I presume the 75mph relates to the 'high speed mode', where the beam should narrow and project its furthest. AHB should operate from 9mph in its 'low speed mode' but we don't seem to have that working at all. I'll be interested to hear what your technician says, if they offer anything more than a shrug!

[Phil T]

Might be helpful if the handbook explained what these settings actually are! The service managers said several customers have complained about the high beam function, but it’s been in production long enough to amend any problems like that, so I expect Toyota aren’t to worried about changing it.

New Battery fitted, so we will see how that performs. Phone charger will be replaced next visit, as it’s not working. Yes that’s what I told you last week! 

Now a test for you all. Is your reversing camera in focus, ie good enough to read a number plate 15 foot behind. Mine will barely see the numbers yet alone able to read them. Garage said they are all like that, my gen4 was very clear. They showed me a new Auris reverse camera and that was terrible. Looked like Google maps after they pixilate the numbers and faces! Have they found a new Chinese supplier,

Anyway they were not going to change it. After remonstrating with them they said they would compare with another Prius when they get their hands on one.

 

[altocumulus]

It would good to get a handbook for any Toyota that is in 'proper' English!

Interesting comment on the camera - I haven't noticed anything untoward (or different from previous cars) - other than it gets dirty quickly 😄 As to whether it can read number plates! I don't know - but I'll give it a go next time - though to be honest as long as it warns me visually that I'm not about to hit something the precision of the vision aspects are less important...

Perhaps the PHV is an expensive layout in the first instance and it's another cost-cutter, just like the cabin pre-heat (they forgot?)

[Ten Ninety]

9 hours ago, Phil T said:

Might be helpful if the handbook explained what these settings actually are! The service managers said several customers have complained about the high beam function, but it’s been in production long enough to amend any problems like that, so I expect Toyota aren’t to worried about changing it.

I've been brushed off by Toyota UK and told to contact my local dealer about the AHBs, which is not an impressive start. If I don't get a satisfactory response then I will be logging a complaint with the ASA regarding false advertising in the Plug-In brochure. Same with the missing Climate Prep feature. I doubt that will do anything, but it will make me feel better. 

Regarding the camera, like Geoff I've not noticed it being particularly terrible as long as it's kept clean. Next time I use the car in daylight, I'll try to remember to check. That might not be until March, mind!