Smartkey Car won't start - Please help

[cjnetrider]

Hi, really hoping someone can help here.
My wife's Yaris wouldn't start yesterday and she's in need for both work and school runs. Car is a Yaris T Spirit S-A on a 07 plate being the Multi-mode transmission. I've had no recent work done and no complaints leading up to the issue. Both fobs are original Toyota and i've tried changing both batteries in them with new. Other attempts being..
1) Fully re-charged car Battery, and tried an alternative. 3) Tried holding fob against start button (no beep but the fob flashed).I've checked the eathing leads that seem ok. Fuses for EMI intact.  If it's of any meaning the doors didn't respond to fob at first, but after a little fiddling they did. Now it simply won't start via the push button even though all dashboard lights illuminate as normal. No cranking, just the usual noise like the sysyem is setting but nothing foloowing. Any and all ideas are greatly appreciated?

[fordulike]

Don't know if yours has a deactivation switch, but might be worth a look:

http://toyota.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7724/~/my-vehicle-has-a-smart-key-and-the-engine-wont-start-when-i-press-the-start

[cjnetrider]

46 minutes ago, fordulike said:

Don't know if yours has a deactivation switch, but might be worth a look:

http://toyota.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7724/~/my-vehicle-has-a-smart-key-and-the-engine-wont-start-when-i-press-the-start

Thanks for the reply . Unfortunately the deactivation switch mentioned in the link can't be found. Have looked below steering wheel and all around so i'm guessing my car isn't eqipped with one.. Back to the drawing board as i'm not fancying a heavy bill from main dealer if there's a possibility its something fairly simple i'm overlooking. One site mentioned holding the start button in for 30 seconds, but not even that works 😕 Thanks for the reply again!

[fordulike]

Clutching at straws here, but another possibility maybe. Swiped from a Google search 😁

With a push button start system, the car can only be started when the brake pedal is depressed. How does your car's security system know that the brake pedal is depressed? There is a brake light switch installed at the brake pedal. It does two things: it turns your brake lights on when your press the brake pedal and lets the security system know that the brakes are applied. If your brake lights don't work, the brake light switch and its circuit must be checked. In some cars, there is an indicator on the dash asking you to press the brake. If the indicator stays on even when you are pressing the brake, the brake switch is also a prime suspect, Brake switch failures are very common.

 

[bathtub tom]

2 hours ago, cjnetrider said:

If it's of any meaning the doors didn't respond to fob at first, but after a little fiddling they did.

I'd be suspecting the fobs. I know you've changed the batteries, but could the batteries you put in be less than good?

Have you regularly used both fobs, or has one not been used for a while?

[cjnetrider]

1 hour ago, fordulike said:

Clutching at straws here, but another possibility maybe. Swiped from a Google search 😁

With a push button start system, the car can only be started when the brake pedal is depressed. How does your car's security system know that the brake pedal is depressed? There is a brake light switch installed at the brake pedal. It does two things: it turns your brake lights on when your press the brake pedal and lets the security system know that the brakes are applied. If your brake lights don't work, the brake light switch and its circuit must be checked. In some cars, there is an indicator on the dash asking you to press the brake. If the indicator stays on even when you are pressing the brake, the brake switch is also a prime suspect, Brake switch failures are very common.

 

I'll be trying this as soon as I get home from work. Fingers crossed 🤞

[cjnetrider]

37 minutes ago, bathtub tom said:

I'd be suspecting the fobs. I know you've changed the batteries, but could the batteries you put in be less than good?

Have you regularly used both fobs, or has one not been used for a while?

Both fob batteries bought yesterday. One hasn't been used in a while and that was the one which was low on charge showing the red light until I swopped out. Strange how they both open / lock door, but neither will start her. It's a pity Toyota didnt have a back up version for ignition as well as door opening key.  Can't find much on google re re-setting apart from main dealer programming when it comes to smartkey versions. Next test is the motor and brake switch

[Madasafish]

Try disconnecting Battery overnight.

[bathtub tom]

2 hours ago, cjnetrider said:

Both fob batteries bought yesterday. One hasn't been used in a while

That doesn't mean they were 'good' batteries. Have you access to a meter that can measure the voltage?

I asked if one of the fobs hadn't been used for a while because some systems use a 'rolling code'. This means the code sent from the key to the car changes each time the key's used. If the paired key isn't used for a while, then if the code it sends is too far away from the other key code it won't work. I would've thought that would affect unlocking as well as starting. I don't know if Toyota used this system in your car.

[alan333]

Ensure you're pressing the brake pedal far enough for the pedal switch to work.  I nearly got caught out a with that a while ago on our Auris with the MMT gearbox - the pedal sits higher once all the vacuum is out of the system so it needs a hard press.  IIRC it also needs to be in neutral.

[07 Auris T Spirit]

Hello all, am new to this forum and have joined tonight as my wife is having the same problem with her 2007 diesel Auris (manual tranny). But this is only happening with cold starts. If the engine is warm then it starts immediately without issue.

We have changed the fuel filter (done by a 30 year experienced mechanic), smart key Battery in both fobs (bought at large and busy supermarket), and yesterday a brand new and very expensive car Battery but the problem remains. 

The dash lights all illuminate as normal and the starter motor cranks the engine. The engine seems to fire up for a split second but then the starter kicks in again as if it's not getting fuel or the glow plugs are knackered. The glow plug dummy light on the dash does go out instantly when  the dash is lit up and the car drives like a dream after it does start and returns mid 50's mpg around town so am guessing the fuel injectors are fine too.

The car doesn't have a physical switch near the steering wheel and the fobs lock and unlock the car and the immobilized goes out when the dash illuminates so don't think that it is a computer permission issue.

I've checked the fuses but don't see anything missing or broken and our mechanic has checked for current and historical error codes and found none whatsoever.

There's not much regarding this on YouTube so maybe it's a relatively isolated problem? Either way I appreciate the support of this forum and will let you know if I get to the bottom of it at my end.

Kind regards,  

Phil

[alan333]

It could be fuel running back to the tank - does yours have a manual fuel primer?  If so then try pumping it before you attempt a cold start and see if it makes any difference.  And personally I'd test the glow plugs.

[07 Auris T Spirit]

Hi Alan, thanks for the tips. I'm definitely leaning towards the glow plugs myself but as my better half has gone to work in it this morning that will have to wait. I didn't realise that any fairly modern cars had a manual primer?

Does your car have one as I don't have the foggiest on where to look? When it finally starts it belches out some black smoke so am thinking this is the semi burnt fuel so don't think it is this but will follow it up if I can find the primer.

Just had a thought, I used to run VW diesels for about 15 years and a common problem on their high mileage diesels was a dirty EGR valve that get clogged up with soot. They don't trip a CEL dummy light on the dashboard but affected performance. Could that be a factor here? 

[Madasafish]

I am with Alan333 - sounds like an air lock in the pump.  A faulty glow plug usually shows up with Engine Warning Light illuminated all the time (been there)

[07 Auris T Spirit]

Thanks MadasaFish

[cjnetrider]

20 hours ago, bathtub tom said:

That doesn't mean they were 'good' batteries. Have you access to a meter that can measure the voltage?

I asked if one of the fobs hadn't been used for a while because some systems use a 'rolling code'. This means the code sent from the key to the car changes each time the key's used. If the paired key isn't used for a while, then if the code it sends is too far away from the other key code it won't work. I would've thought that would affect unlocking as well as starting. I don't know if Toyota used this system in your car.

Thanks Tom but no joy down that route..  Voltage reading strong on both new batteries and they're working the locking system without fail.

[cjnetrider]

Well, looks like i'm running short on ideas here and a heafty bill may be in the pipeline. Tried contacting Toyota dealer who wasn't forthcoming on ideas other than already mentioned. For them it's a tow there with a fat wallet which i'm not looking forward to. However, I want to thank you guys for your help to date! The information and support forums like this provide is tremendous. Battery is now disconnected and i'm hunting for a Haynes for future reference. If anyone knows of any online workshop manuals i'd appreciate?

 

[furtula]

Might be some members have it, but you would be better of opening a topic for it, some future members may benefit from it as well. Do try the search option beforehand. 

[fordulike]

To the OP, you mention it's MMT. I wonder if the selector stick has an incorporated switch that lets the system know it's in neutral. If it was faulty or sticking, then I suppose it could impose a problem with starting.

Only a wild guess, sorry.

[alan333]

On 9/25/2018 at 6:52 AM, 07 Auris T Spirit said:

I'm definitely leaning towards the glow plugs myself

The glow plug tell-tale light should go off quite quickly, but the glow plugs themselves are still being heated.  They normally also have "aftergow" which means the remain on for the first little while after the engine has started.  Try turning on the ignition, waiting about 10 secs, turning ignition back off, then on again, wait another 10 secs then try to start it.  If it now starts clean and easy there's a fair chance at least one glow plug isn't doing it's job properly.

[07 Auris T Spirit]

Hello all, 

Apologies for the delay in replying. I've only just returned from a holiday at midnight. My mechanic has this morning checked the glow plugs and found that three of them weren't working at all.  Thanks to Alan who called it early on. 

The faulty plugs didn't log an error code or put a light on the dash, which they should have.

The car is starting fine now but the real test will be in the morning with its first cold start with the new glow plugs.

Will keep you posted. 

[07 Auris T Spirit]

Hello all,

First "cold' start this morning after glow plug replacement yesterday and the symptom has gone. She started with no hesitation whatsoever and it appears that this has solved the issue. 

Thanks to all for your advice and especially to Alan.

Hope that this helps CJNETRIDER and any others that read this thread in the future.

[Anthony Poli]

Ensure you're pressing the brake pedal far enough for the pedal switch to work.  I nearly got caught out a with that a while ago on our Auris with the MMT gearbox - the pedal sits higher once all the vacuum is out of the system so it needs a hard press.  IIRC it also needs to be in neutral.

Our Yaris hybrid you have to press it as far as it goes before it gives you ready. [emoji3]


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[Anthony Poli]

Well, looks like i'm running short on ideas here and a heafty bill may be in the pipeline. Tried contacting Toyota dealer who wasn't forthcoming on ideas other than already mentioned. For them it's a tow there with a fat wallet which i'm not looking forward to. However, I want to thank you guys for your help to date! The information and support forums like this provide is tremendous. Battery is now disconnected and i'm hunting for a Haynes for future reference. If anyone knows of any online workshop manuals i'd appreciate?
 

I replaced batteries in my fobs a couple of months back. First time I tried them with batteries that measured fine, but didn’t work. Got new ones from Mr T and this time they worked.
Might be worth a try with other batteries


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[cjnetrider]

Late reply due to one thing and another. However, i've resolved the problem which turned out to be a faulty starter motor. Thought i'd post the cause as it may benefit someone unfortunate to find themselves in similar position. I had it towed to Toyota dealers where I sat for over 4 hrs waiting for her to be looked at. Was told at first it was the Battery, which their tester read as having a cell dead. Replacement cost from Toyota.. £90 + fitting. When informed i'd already had tested, and fitted a further 2 at home, I was told nothing could be done until the Battery was sorted. Got 1 from a local factor and fitted myself. Waited a further 2 days for the repair at a cost for starter inc fitting £240+...