Woke up to a dead battery

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Hi

We woke up to a dead Battery day before yesterday, nothing happened on start up other than some unusual noises from the under the bonnet and numerous flashing lights on the dash...

PANIC ATTACK!!! lol

Called out my breakdown company who we joined through club toyota...AA in other words...confirmed it was the Battery...attempted to charge the Battery...confirmed the battery wouldnt flactuate whilst charging on his meter...i.e the battery was knackered and recommended we buy an AA battery with a 5 yr guarantee.

Anyhoo, rang my toyota dealer whom we purchased it from since it still has 4 months warranty remaining on the battery. They asked us to bring it in, they charged it for 24hrs, called us this morning to confirm that its fine and fully charged.

Our concern is...do we replace it with a new one incase it happens again especially with the winter weather on its way soon? Or risk using the old battery that we have had for coming up to 3 years and see how it goes?

Cheers guys

 

[Duggerz]

Hi Sam,

I think the issue at hand is, why did the Battery flatten? As Toyota would be on the hook for replacement it's in their interest for the Battery to be OK, the AA man on the other hand gets commission for selling you a Battery. Previously I've taken mine to Halfords, because they use a proper Yuasa battery tester that prints out the result i.e. it can't be fixed. I've had 2 come out OK and one that needed replacement. Whether you replace with one bought from Halfords is then up to you. The original battery from my Avensis lasted just short of 7 years. Toyota batteries are excellent quality, as you'd expect. If the battery is fine, then there are a few other possibilities:

1. Current drain - check any added accessories. Is courtesy light set to constant ON position? I know it seems obvious but you might not notice if you only drive in daytime.

2. Short journeys - would have to be lots and very short

3 Alternator diodes getting weak. Check voltage across battery terminals with engine running. Should be ~13.8V DC

4. Make sure battery terminals are clean and tight, and check terminals on alternator too.

 

Hope this is of help

Ian

[xzirri]

Maybe a little OT but I can confirm that I'm pleased with the quality of Toyota batteries. On my old Avensis the Battery was 14 years old when I changed it. It was still working perfectly fine through the cold winters of Norway but I swapped it since I wanted to be able to keep the stereo on for an hour with the engine off.

Edit: The reason the AA wasn't able to charge your Battery is probably that it went completely flat. If the Battery goes flat it might be hard to charge it with a regular charger. If Toyota managed to get the charge up after charging it for 24 hours then the battery should be fine, however the lifetime of the battery might have become shortened, depending on how (in lack of a better term) "deep" the discharge was.

[Catlover]

Remember that breakdown companies don't like being called out for the same fault in close succession. If the Battery fails then they don't expect you to call in couple weeks time if you done nothing about it. Check the wording in the breakdown policy. Of course if you get the fault sorted then no bother.

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

1 hour ago, Duggerz said:

Hi Sam,

I think the issue at hand is, why did the battery flatten? As Toyota would be on the hook for replacement it's in their interest for the battery to be OK, the AA man on the other hand gets commission for selling you a battery. Previously I've taken mine to Halfords, because they use a proper Yuasa battery tester that prints out the result i.e. it can't be fixed. I've had 2 come out OK and one that needed replacement. Whether you replace with one bought from Halfords is then up to you. The original battery from my Avensis lasted just short of 7 years. Toyota batteries are excellent quality, as you'd expect. If the battery is fine, then there are a few other possibilities:

1. Current drain - check any added accessories. Is courtesy light set to constant ON position? I know it seems obvious but you might not notice if you only drive in daytime.

2. Short journeys - would have to be lots and very short

3 Alternator diodes getting weak. Check voltage across battery terminals with engine running. Should be ~13.8V DC

4. Make sure battery terminals are clean and tight, and check terminals on alternator too.

 

Hope this is of help

Ian

Cheers guys,

We cant think as to what it could be as to why it drained down, because i agree with Toyota batteries are normally pretty reliable.

We use the vehicle for long distance these days which is about 4-5 times a month, with my Aygo as the local run around.

We also had a Dashcam fitted about a month back, powered via a direct connection from cig fuse, which i assume powers up on ingnition rather than constant.

Otherwise interior lights etc are always off.

Im now paranoid lol, hmmm, just thought we have an mp3 player plugged, connected to the inside of the handrest box, could that be left on, but thats too small no.

 

[Mooly]

Small loads (low but constant current draw) can flatten a Battery quicker than you might think. An aged Battery takes a longer to accept a full charge than does a new one and this can mean the old one never gets long enough on charge to get fully to 100% capacity. Even a couple of hours driving won't do it, yes the alternator can supply all that is needed and more but the old Battery will simply take less and less current as it charges and its terminal voltage rises. The new battery on the other hand would draw a massive charge from the alternator (basically at the limit of what the alternator can deliver) and get to close to full charge very quickly.

Anything drawing more than around 75 milliamps (0.075A) on a 24/7 basis is soon going to pull an older battery down to the point that normal day to day driving won't replenish.

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Update.

we’ve installed the re-charged Battery carried out by toyota this afternoon, see how that goes, but have purchased a brand new one from then which we shall store in the boot for now on standby if required.

we intend to measure the voltage on the Battery tomorrow and at the alternator, might to watch a few youtube vids to learn how to first lol

[xzirri]

Don't forget to check the voltage of your spare Battery every now and then to make sure it doesn't get discharged to a critical level. Good luck!

[Mooly]

If you have bought a brand new battery  then I would definitely fit it in place of what you have. Otherwise it will just deteriorate.

One dead easy check you could do on the old Battery would be a simple discharge test for a few minutes. If you measure the voltage on the resting Battery (after it has stood for a few hours) you should see at least 12.3 volts. Now turn on your headlights and heated rear screen without the engine running. That will draw around 30 amps. A new and fully charged Battery would support that for at least a couple of hours and it should not fall below 12 volts  in the first hour.

For your old battery its just a quick check on seeing whether the voltage  holds up over say 10 minutes under those conditions. If the voltage starts falling quickly then the battery is faulty and not holding sufficient charge.

When you start the car from cold you should see the voltage across the battery rise to perhaps as high as 15 volts (or even slightly more under extreme cold conditions) and then see it fall back a little. When the engine (alternator) is really hot then the voltage could be as low as 13.5.  

[saxo265]

What is the point of buying a new Battery and not fitting it and lugging it around in the car? fit the new one and maybe keep the old for a spare on trickle charge in the garage if you must.

[Konrad C]

I would carry a Battery around in the load area of an estate for long periods for safety reasons! For emergencies I would carry booster cables/jump leads, or one of those power banks (if they are that good).  

[xzirri]

30 minutes ago, Konrad C said:

I would carry a battery around in the load area of an estate for long periods for safety reasons! For emergencies I would carry booster cables/jump leads, or one of those power banks (if they are that good).  

Power banks do their job but you need to charge them once a month or so. I have one and it has saved me a few times.

[Konrad C]

On 9/29/2018 at 12:30 PM, Konrad C said:

I would carry a battery around in the load area of an estate for long periods for safety reasons! For emergencies I would carry booster cables/jump leads, or one of those power banks (if they are that good).  

I meant to say  "I would not  carry a car Battery in the load area or passenger compartment!" The Battery would need to be in a vented area and securely strapped down. The Battery would need to be a sealed type. What about the battery solutions that in car audio people use, with a double charging systems.  

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Great news guys, the re-charged by Toyota Battery died again today, couldnt get the car to start.

Looks like ill have to replace it with the new one.

I do wonder why this Battery is failing. Admittedly we dont drive the old Avensis as much, mainly on long runs, as we use the Aygo for day to day run arounds, so she can go sitting for a fortnight or so at times. Still we’ve never had the Battery fail before.

The only thing we’ve done recent is install a piggy back fuse holder to wire in the Dashcam, that cant be draining the battery can it?

 

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

Hi

Took the old Battery back to toyota, they insisted on a re charge again, interesting how they asked if we had a Dashcam install, could it be this thats draining the Battery???

[Heidfirst]

It could be depending upon a) it being wired to a permanent live  & b) how long the car is parked before being used again.

My Thinkware (which does run in parking mode) has a built-in cutoff when the Battery drops below a certain level & Blackvue do a Powermagic Pro add-on for similar (I actually should have 1 of these spare now as no longer needed with the Thinkware). Typically my Thinkware will run for 2 days of sitting parked before the cut-off triggers.

[SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS]

29 minutes ago, Heidfirst said:

It could be depending upon a) it being wired to a permanent live  & b) how long the car is parked before being used again.

My Thinkware (which does run in parking mode) has a built-in cutoff when the battery drops below a certain level & Blackvue do a Powermagic Pro add-on for similar (I actually should have 1 of these spare now as no longer needed with the Thinkware). Typically my Thinkware will run for 2 days of sitting parked before the cut-off triggers.

Cheers, so is the cig fuse a live feed then on these t27’s ?

We use the Avensis for business, every month, sometimes two...i know...i keep saying we should sell her but he loves it eventhough its a diesel and impractical...men!

I have no idea what Thinkware is🙉

[Heidfirst]

Hi Sam, I don't think that the cig fuse is live all the time - certainly the aux socket isn't live without the ignition being in at least acc. Obviously easy way to test if it is the Dashcam causing the problem is to disconnect it.

Thinkware is a very large/well known manufacturer of dash cams (as is Blackvue).

[alan333]

12 hours ago, SAM LOVERS HER TOYOTAS said:

Cheers, so is the cig fuse a live feed then on these t27’s ?

Plug in something with a light on it (like a phone charger) and see if it goes out with the key removed.

[Konrad C]

I can confirm that the 'CIG' and power sockets in my T27, do not work with the key out or in the off position. I use a Nextbase Dashcam plugged into the 'CIG' socket, and it only powers up when the key is turned to 'ACC'. Same when I want to use the tyre inflator.