EPB problem -Again!!!!

[Sean B]

Hello Guys,

I know this is a recurring problem and i've seen all the other topics regarding the same issue here.

My question is regarding my 2014 Diesel 2 litre with auto EPB option.

My EPB is actually working fine manually when the errors are displayed in the pic attached.It won't come out of this error display and also the cruise control won't work. I think I know it's more of an issue with both of my rear calipers, as after driving I can see that there is still rustiness showing on the rear discs on both sides.I recently got the rear pads done and I'm bringing it back to the mechanic to have a look at.

My other issue is has anyone with the same problem experienced a lag in acceleration also while they had these issues?.It is definitely struggling in second gear between 1500 - 2000 rpm range and overall there's a general feeling of a lack of power in any gear from 1st to 6th.If the rear calipers are not working and the EPB sounds and works manually (even with all the warning and error lights displayed in pic) ,I'm not understanding how there could be a connection between the braking system and the lack of power???

Btw all these lights displayed a week or two ago for a few days and then one day when I started it they had all gone and car was back to running perfectly.Now the problem is back again in the last two days.

All seems very strange to me - can't join the dots on this problem, it's a weird one for sure!!

Any ideas anyone? 

Thanks all in advance - Great Forum.

[Heidfirst]

Hi Sean, welcome to TOC 🙂

There are a no. of things that can bring on the combination of engine master caution, VSC & brake warning. You really need to get it code read.

With that combination of warnings  the car will usually drop into limp mode hence imo your perceived lack of power.

[Sean B]

Hey Scott,

Thanks for getting back.

I've experienced a 'limp mode home' in my previous car (Diesel Accord) but the lack of power is definitely not as radical as that.I mean she's driving fine and I can accelerate up and down the gears - it's just a lag in 2nd and a general feel of lack of power.It hasn't gone into 'limp mode home' and I hope it doesn't either!!! because it's horrible when it happens alright.

I know I should get a diagnostic on it but reading other topics here relating to the same problem I get the impression that it will just read that is the actuator (I think that's what it's called) ,which is big money,but often it isn't that.I'm not bringing it to a Toyota dealer as they'll just tell me that and charge me a LOT of money.The EPB is working and sounding fine when I engage it manually but it won't work automatically.

And I see from comments like the one attached that it can often be the wrong diagnostic software/tool in the wrong hands that can lead to an unnecessary whole new EPB.I'm thinking it's just an issue with the calipers but I'm wondering if you,or anyone else here, can recommend the right piece of diagnostic kit that I can tell my mechanic to use and then hopefully he can fix the rear calipers and clear the faults showing.

The (small) lack of power thing is still a mystery to me though - hopefully the right diagnostic kit will display that issue also.

 I'm praying it's a caliper issue rather than an actual EPB issue - can't afford that!!!

 

[Excavator]

Hi I just had a similar problem with my electronic parking brake,the warning light came on the dash and I had no handbrake when I stopped. A trip to Toyotaas my motor is an Avensis tourer16 plate and the technician showed me how to fix it ,if you hold the switch forward for a few seconds the parking brake sign will come on after a few seconds release it and it puts it back into auto mode,if you press the switch down for a few seconds then release it puts it back to manual.

[Sean B]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for getting back but it's not that - I wish it was believe me :) I'm aware of that ability to turn it on and off by holding it in our out for a while.

My dashboard is lighting up like a christmas tree!!! but I can still engage the EPB manually by pressing it - so it's actually working (not automatically) but the dash is telling me it's not!! It's some other issue.

Thanks anyway Michael - appreciate it.

[Heidfirst]

2 hours ago, Sean B said:

I know I should get a diagnostic on it but reading other topics here relating to the same problem I get the impression that it will just read that is the actuator (I think that's what it's called) ,which is big money,but often it isn't that.I'm not bringing it to a Toyota dealer as they'll just tell me that and charge me a LOT of money.The EPB is working and sounding fine when I engage it manually but it won't work automatically.

And I see from comments like the one attached that it can often be the wrong diagnostic software/tool in the wrong hands that can lead to an unnecessary whole new EPB.I'm thinking it's just an issue with the calipers but I'm wondering if you,or anyone else here, can recommend the right piece of diagnostic kit that I can tell my mechanic to use and then hopefully he can fix the rear calipers and clear the faults showing.

Well, the people with the right diagnostic equipment that should be able to diagnose past just "an EPB actuator problem" will be Toyota approved service outlets ...

I don't know what the Irish equivalent of the MOT is like but here your car would fail it's next MOT with that warning illuminated. 

Konrad knows more about working with the EPB than most non-Toyota staff (e.g. Devon Aygo) so hopefully 1 or both of those will see this thread.

[Sean B]

Thanks Scott,

Yes I see that Konrad is the man for this issue - hopefully he gets in touch.

Thanks pal.

[Konrad C]

Contrary to Scott's post about me, I only know some of the things about the EBP system. I have experienced a couple of different issues - when the EPB seems to not disengage, so have to switch the car off and restart (very rare). Secondly and after I had the clutch replaced, the mechanic did not secure a gear position sensor connection properly. The following link details the fix:- 

It could be a connection issue like corroded terminals.

One thing you should do, is raise the rear wheels and see if they spin freely when the EPB is off. It could be possible that one of the cables or callipers has seized. 

Here is a link to a fix that partially worked because the connector was still attached:- 

 

Look at this post too:- 

An auto electrician with good diagnostics like Toyota techstream should be able to confirm the fault. My friend (auto electrician) used diagnostics (not techstream) that showed a diagram of the gear position sensor and location. 
Other issues could be wiring, and pedal sensors. Diagnostics will hopefully find the actual fault.

I like to learn and know all I can about the EBP, so hopefully this will help.

 

[333max]

You definitely need a diagnostic check. I had exactly the same symptoms and warnings on my 2016 1.6 tourer and it turned out to be the EGR

[Konrad C]

59 minutes ago, 333max said:

You definitely need a diagnostic check. I had exactly the same symptoms and warnings on my 2016 1.6 tourer and it turned out to be the EGR

I didn't mention the EGR as links I posted made the EGR one of the probable causes. Also, as my car is valvematic, it does not have an EGR.

Good shout. 👍👍🏽👍🏾  

[Sean B]

Thanks Konrad - and everyone else.

I'll bring it to my mechanic , who did the brakes last month, and see what his diagnostic says and also see what the problem is with the rear calipers (they're not gripping the discs properly - mild rust still showing after driving while front discs are shiny like mirrors)

Hopefully it's just an issue with the rear brakes and not the EPB.It must be 'cos the EPB is working on and off manually and sounds the same as ever.

Then I'll show him the way to clear the dash with the quick fix that Jimmyfixit did and hopefully that's it!!!

Although it could be the EGR also.

I'm praying it's not the actuator on the EPB - cannot deal with that kind of money - life is hard enough :(

I'll report back.Not going to a Toyota dealer with this - no way they're thieves.

 

Sean

[Sean B]

So my mechanic can't look at this until tomorrow but guess what happened on the drive to him!! The Shift Up/Shift down green arrow that appears on the dash,as an advisory to optimize fuel performance, when you are going up and down the gears has now disappeared from the display.

My car has gone insane.

But the ironic thing is that it's driving and sounding fine (apart from a vague lag in power overall in the low gears).I'll know more tomorrow when I run a diagnostic with my mechanic.

In the meantime i'm not driving it - It'll probably turn into a Tardis next and warp itself to a parallel universe.F****ing stupid electronics that are not necessary.What exactly is wrong with an ordinary manual handbrake? Nothing-that's what.

Idiots.Ruining a perfectly good car with their meddling.

DEAR TOYOTA,NOBODY WANTS OR NEEDS YOUR STUPID EPB.

Sorry... Rant over.

[Heidfirst]

4 hours ago, Sean B said:

I'll bring it to my mechanic , who did the brakes last month, and see what his diagnostic says and also see what the problem is with the rear calipers (they're not gripping the discs properly - mild rust still showing after driving while front discs are shiny like mirrors)

Rear brakes only do something like 15% of the braking so it isn't unheard of rear discs to still show rust whilst the fronts are fine (it's even worse for hybrids with regenerative braking!)

I'm praying it's not the actuator on the EPB - cannot deal with that kind of money - life is hard enough 😞

I'll report back.Not going to a Toyota dealer with this - no way they're thieves.

I don't know about Toyota Ireland but in the UK Toyota & Toyota dealers on the whole are well regarded (although there is always the odd one that lets the side down).

& if you were in the UK your car would still be under Toyota warranty ...

57 minutes ago, Sean B said:

What exactly is wrong with an ordinary manual handbrake? Nothing-that's what.

Idiots.Ruining a perfectly good car with their meddling.

DEAR TOYOTA,NOBODY WANTS OR NEEDS YOUR STUPID EPB.

Sorry... Rant over.

An EPB is lighter (so helps them improve mpg & emissions) & apparently also helps them with packaging. It's not just Toyota - all manufacturers are going that way for medium sized cars & up (small cars, it would appear, can't bear the extra cost of it). & the Avensis version appears less problematic than many.

 

[Sean B]

I know Scott - just venting.

Toyota Ireland are rip-off merchants.They deliberately import versions of newly released models without extras which come as standard in UK so that they can charge extra for things like air con or leather seats or cruise control etc.And they charge a LOT for anything extra.Lots of people are importing used models from the UK because of all the extras they get.My Avensis is the business edition with all the frills - a 2014.In 2014 this version of the Avensis couldn't be bought new here.

All the dealers are the same.I had a major problem with my previous car which was a diesel accord.It was to do with the whole fuel injection system.It was a 2004 and Hondas first diesel engine.Anyway Honda put out a notice to all their dealers in Europe to extend the warranty and fix it for free.Honda Ireland denied this even though I gave them the number and details on it.The Honda dealer quoted me 2600 euro to fix it initially.I told him I'd get in touch with Honda Ireland to complain and take legal action.Then they backed down and said ok that they would pay for the parts but I would pay for the labour - 900 euro!!.I rang a Honda dealer in Newry N.ireland,told him my issue and he fixed it for free only charging me 70 pounds for oil.That's the kind of main dealer culture we are dealing with over here.

Yes I know if the Avensis was still registered in UK it would be covered - but of course Toyota Ireland won't.It's very annoying.A regular service - just oil and filters etc here in a Toyota main dealer here is minimum 450 euro.I can buy the parts and oil for 90.My mechanic does the service and charges 150 - go figure.Toyota charge about 70 euro an hour for labour and say it takes 4 hours to do the service.4 hours to change the oil and a couple of filters - I don't think so.

Anyway.....It's just a rant :) It is what it is.You guys seem to have a much better dealership attitude in the UK.Over here nobody uses the main dealers for services - unless it's a business or something.

 

[Heidfirst]

Wow, that sucks! An Intermediate service for an Avensis here is £185 or about 215 Euro.

So if your car is an UK one & it is still within the terms of the warranty might it be worth taking it across the border to get it looked at/fixed?

[Sean B]

Tried that.

It has a 5 year warranty from Toyota.I rang the dealership in Ayr,where I bought it last year and the head of servicing etc. reckoned because it is now technically an Irish car the warranty won't extend that extra two years over the normal Toyota 3 year warranty.

You would think that the warranty was a Europe wide one wouldn't you but apparently Toyota only do a 3 year Europe wide warranty and the 5 year one my car has only applies to the UK.

Having said that that is just his opinion on it.I haven't actually rang any dealers in N.Ireland to check.I'll wait to see what the issue actually is first and if it's a major fix then i'll ring a dealer in N. Ireland and see.It's only a two hour drive from Dublin too!.The other point he made was that there was never a re-call (or whatever that secret notice is they put out to dealers) put out on the EPB.

I'm at the mercy of the Gods - say a prayer for me :) Maybe it isn't a big job.I won't know until tomorrow.Keep you posted.Thanks Scott

[Heidfirst]

ask the question to Toyota UK. https://www.toyota.co.uk/contact-us/ or if that doesn't work cr@toyota.co.uk

[FROSTYBALLS]

The standard Toyota new car warranty is three years/100,000km. For cars sold by Toyota GB in the UK, Toyota GB provided the two year/40,000 mile new car warranty extension, which is administered by Toyota GB.

I would imagine that as you have effectively exported the car to Ireland, the new car warranty reverts to the standard Toyota new car warranty. 

[Sean B]

13 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

The standard Toyota new car warranty is three years/100,000km. For cars sold by Toyota GB in the UK, Toyota GB provided the two year/40,000 mile new car warranty extension, which is administered by Toyota GB.

I would imagine that as you have effectively exported the car to Ireland, the new car warranty reverts to the standard Toyota new car warranty. 

Yes you're probably right.That's what i've been told.

Ah well - you can't have it all.Where would you put it :)

[Heidfirst]

21 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

The standard Toyota new car warranty is three years/100,000km. For cars sold by Toyota GB in the UK, Toyota GB provided the two year/40,000 mile new car warranty extension, which is administered by Toyota GB.

I would imagine that as you have effectively exported the car to Ireland, the new car warranty reverts to the standard Toyota new car warranty. 

I can imagine that being the case in Eire but if he brings it back into the UK ...? Which is why I suggested asking Toyota direct.  

[FROSTYBALLS]

Presumably the car has been re-registered in Ireland, and have Irish rather than UK/Northern Ireland plates - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/coming_to_live_in_ireland/importing_car_into_ireland.html

[Sean B]

So my mechanic told me it's either an EGR or DPF problem.

He cleared the faults but they all came back on two mins later.So I put dipethane  into it and Drove it at 4000 rpm for an hour on the motorway.Lights still on but that's just a re-set issue.I reckon it's the EGR that needs a cleaning.

He'll clear it again after some hard driving over the weekend,and we'll take it from there.

At least it's very unlikely that it's the EPB.Still shocking to see that this message comes up (Check parking brake) when it's an unrelated issue.I'm sure many people have paid for a new EPB when all they needed was a burn out/re-gen of their DPF , or a cleaning of their EGR or possibly a new caliper or something.

Not good from Toyota -not good at all.There's a huge price,and personal stress,difference between the above and a new EPB - and too many dodgy dealers willing to rip off people who are clueless.

Anyway....I'm slightly relieved and ultimately it's a first world problem. :)

Anyone out there know if cleaning the EGR is a big/costly job? .I've heard of people doing it themselves.

 

[Sean B]

Just an update - After another spin on the motorway at 4000rpm in third gear for about 40 miles all fault lights cleared and no problems in this last week.I used about 15ml of Dipethane per 10 euro of fuel - Diesel here is around 1.40euro per liter.

Next service I will get EGR valve cleaned also.

Main thing is if you get the faults showing that I did Don't Panic.Try the above first before even considering it's your EPB.

Ultimately cost me 30 euro for a diagnostic and 10 euro for liter of Dipethane instead of 1500+ for new EPB.

Still annoyed that 'Check Parking Brake' displays for these issues -there has to be people out there paying a lot of money for unnecessary EPB replacements by dodgy mechanics.

Thanks all for your advice and time.

Remember - CAVEAT EMPTOR and DO NOT PANIC :)

 

Sean

[Sasha83]

Did you solve the problem?

[Konrad C]

9 hours ago, Sasha83 said:

Did you solve the problem?

I think he did reading the above posts. The fault is not actually the EPB unit, but the diesel emission system - EGR and/or DPF. 
There are a few systems that can cause a warning of a fault on another system that is working fine. Some links are are obvious and make sense, others you don't  understand the connection. 
Here is one I had - the gear position sensor - the connector came off. This was due to the mechanic who changed the clutch, not securing the cable properly and the plug not firmly connected. This caused the 'Check Parking Brake System' message and being a manual, the auto release did not work.

Another issue somebody had, turned out to be the cables or caliper. Again far cheaper than the EPB unit. 

I also trip the caution after using the wrong diagnostic tool and wipe the zero point settings of the clutch and g sensor. I used Techstream to fix that.

What specification/engine is your car, what checks you have done and what things have been done, that may have triggered the warning?