Cross climate tyres for Prius Gen4

[PeteB]

13 minutes ago, thrope said:

So what would be the disadvantage? Why are the higher tier models specced with 17" if they have no advantage? 

A very good question!

1. manufacturers believe cars with bigger wheels will sell better
2. many people actually like the bigger wheels more than the smaller ones (and quite a few have said so on this board).

Having said that, "bigger" and "smaller" are misleading, because in many cases (and certainly on the Prius) the tyres' diameter at the outside edge (bit bit that touches the road) is almost identical, the 17" having more metal and less air/rubber between the centre and the outside edge.

The main reason the 17" wheels produce more drag and worse mpg is that they are wider. The worse ride is down to the smaller bit of air/rubber between the metal bit and the road.

Apart from cost of tyres (17" don't seem to last appreciably longer) the other downsides are:

• worse ride (although the better suspension in the Gen 4 Prius makes the difference less obvious than the Gen 3 did)
• more noise
• worse (larger) turning circle
• slightly increased risk of rim damage when hitting bad potholes
• likely to be worse in snow/deep water

They only other advantage of 17", maybe, is a slightly higher limit of adhesion due to the wider area of rubber in contact with the road - but how many drivers would push the car hard enough to discover that is another matter...

[altocumulus]

Just an off-the-peg thought, would 17 inches allow just a tad more underbody clearance?

[PeteB]

1 minute ago, altocumulus said:

Just an off-the-peg thought, would 17 inches allow just a tad more underbody clearance?

Nope!

The actual diameter from centre of hub to road is almost identical between 15" & 17", the 17" having more metal and less air/rubber between the centre and the outside edge.

That also means swapping won't alter the speedo accuracy.

[kithmo]

Being retired I don't do the mileage to warrant buying Winter tyres, I just stay in if the weather is bad, but if I did I would go for the 15" wheel and tyre combo. Apart from the TPMS light thing, it makes more sense to have a softer tyre for winter grip and it saves getting the original alloys caked in salt off the roads.

[Ten Ninety]

7 hours ago, thrope said:

So what would be the disadvantage? Why are the higher tier models specced with 17" if they have no advantage? 

The disadvantage is purely aesthetic. The Gen3 in particular takes on a bit of a shopping trolley look with tiddly little wheels. However, the Gen4 seems to wear them rather better and the very latest (2018 on) 15" wheel covers with the extended black strakes do a very good job of disguising their tiny size, as do the two-tone wheels on the PHV. 

For some reason, this country has an obsession with cars that look 'sporty' and people are prepared to put up with all the disadvantages of large wheels just to make their car look 'better'. An annoying side effect of pandering to this market is the difficulty of buying a luxury or top-spec car that doesn't have stupid big wheels on it. My Lexus GS would be considerably better to drive on 16" wheels as opposed to the compulsory 18s fitted. Credit to Toyota for offering the 15" option on the Excel version of the Gen4.

[Joseph D]

11 hours ago, thrope said:

So what would be the disadvantage?

AFAIAK, it purely aesthetic, in the case of the Prius. Wider tyres, which generally go with the larger wheel/ lower profile tyre combination, have better grip/road holding so that is why high performance cars have them.  In the cases of general road cars, they like to have wide tyre to give them the "high performance" look. So, hence purely aesthetic.

11 hours ago, thrope said:

Why are the higher tier models specced with 17" if they have no advantage? 

Because it is considered a cool look these days, probably driven by the "boy-racers" and motoring press.

Personally I go for function over form.

The preceding posts from Ten Ninety and PeteB, are good too.

[Catlover]

When I was looking for a Gen4, secondhand, I wanted an Excel (leather seats), Hypersonic Red, and 15” wheels. Not easy to find. I spotted an advert with that spec 100 miles away. Went to see it, and standing right next to it was a Business Edition Plus in the hypersonic red, fabric interior (standard), and 17” wheels (standard). I was busy looking at the Excel with 15”, when the wife chipped in “I prefer that one” pointing to the Business Edition Plus. I aske Why?, the answer came back ”nicer wheels”. Got to admit, side by side the 17” wheels look good, but I just kept going through the Excel with 15”.  I had the Auris on 17” and the gen3 on 17”, and didn’t like the jarring on our potholed roads, nor the danger of kerbing (cost me £360 to have all 4 refurbished when I bought the  gen3), so I was not going to be distracted at all , 15” it is and very happy too.

[PeteB]

Me too, except when the final spec of the Gen 4 was announced I couldn't wait, and paid virtually full list price for mine!  And had an agonising 4 month wait.

I could have had one sooner, but I would not have accepted 17" wheels (15" ones got me a £400 rebate), insisted on a spare wheel and wanted solid white paint.

I must admin the ride quality on the Gen 4 with 17" (I drove a couple of cars with them) was not as bad as the Gen 3 on 17" - plus lots of Gen 3 17" owners also complained of rattles and squeaks, which my T3 on 15" never did.

[cviclark]

On all of my Hybrids Gen2,3,4 and Auris Ts I got significantly poorer mpg in the winter than summer. In very cold weather it could be as much as 4 mpg.  If you have just swapped to X climate tires this may explain why you are seeing a rise in fuel consumption.  After a couple of months on the X climates I am still showing over 60 mpg average which is comparable with the Toyo's.  I always run my tires on either HS fully loaded or +2 pounds in the summer and standard in the winter.  This may account for poorer winter mpg.  The X climates on 15" are quieter and give sharper steering. Not had to try snow yet but in heavy rain give more confidence.  I was (as some may remember) very annoyed Toyota would not let me have the Auris TS Excel on 15 or 16 wheels.  I was not happy with the economy on 17".  My Gen 4 is fine on 15" and as I expect this to be my last car did not wait to wear the first set out.  I love the RADAR and the whole feel of lightness. While it is not as practical as the TS it is a much better drive.  It still ticks all my boxes.  The only things that would improve it for me was if the paint was more resilient to stone chips.  I have added a Toyota bonnet stone guard (brought back from Canada) that helps but the front and even the roof have a number of annoying chips.  I would also like to get rid of the white bits inside but not sure piano black is any better. Like others the Auto lights can cause confusion to others who think you are flashing them but having looked at the competition would not swap it for anything else. 

PS The white mark on the bumper is sunlight

On 11/29/2018 at 7:30 PM, wass said:

The whole tyre discussion is littered with hopeful misunderstanding. The most grippy winter tyres are going to be more draggy and less economical. The wider the tyre, the more drag it will create. Narrow eco tyres will return good fuel consumption but one must take care in wet or frosty weather. However, I successfully drove a morris traveler rear wheel drive on 145x14 tyres through snow up the the hubs ( 6 or7" deep) not because the tyres were all weather or studded but simply because there was good tread on them, they were slightly over inflated and they were narrow and displaced the snow and slush more easily than wider tyres. So .... buy cars with narrow tyres, make sure your pressures are ok and forget about all weather tyres in UK, they are a gimmick, they doubtless do work but in the most part , are surplus to requirements because narrower tyres would probably do just a good a job.

 Toyota spend millions on developing fuel efficient cars and then we, the punters, spend millions on the cars kick economy gains into touch by fitting high drag wide wheels and tyres. How daft is that? Do I want to fit 17" wheels on my car? Not when I can fit smaller wheels and it costs less and grips better in challenging road conditions.

  

[Phil T]

An update on my Goodyear Vector 4Season 195 65 15 £251 fitted. They cost slightly more than one tyre on my VW CC. One advantage of 15 inch wheels. In these last few snowy icy days they have slipped less than the old Toyo's in the wet! Very pleased with them, mpg seems to be the same, quieter and more supple ride. A little bit of whirring noise at low speed, though that disappears over 30, pot holes are not as intrusive either. Passing at muddy passing places on narrow lanes is not an issue now, the Toyo's just spun up. The hill where my house is, gets no salt on it and for most of the day is in shade, so snow and ice is a problem most winters. Im certainly glad I changed, it gives peace of mind when the temperature drops below zero.

[cviclark]

Ice and snow prooved no problem.  It felt sure footed and brakes were fine but I did allow more distance.  I cannot say they were better than the Tokyo's because I never had cause to use them in the same conditions. I am happy with the Cross Climates but like insurance you just hope you will never really need to test it.