Heater Matrix Leaking Radiator Failure 2002 T-Sport Recommendations?

[KennyKen1988]

Heater Matrix Leaking Radiator Failure 2002 T-Sport Recommendations?

I got in my car this morning off shift and its just a five minute drive back home. I didn't notice or hear it until I parked, a constant dripping sound inside the car, and in the passenger foot well dripping from the side of the dashboard warm water (see photo attached).

Over the passed month or so I have been noticing symptoms of a problem, my water expansion tank went from near max down to less than half full and there has been random "slurping" noises coming from inside of my car which I'm very sure sounds like air in the coolant system.

I'm just dropping a message to ask about the procedure for heater matrix radiator removal and replacement. I went straight to my Haynes manual which does not cover the T-Sport but the information is very vague, there is literally four steps for the heater matrix which tells me to refer to removing the evaporator for the air conditioning.

I've found one video this morning which is a bit of a scare please see this link:

I'm also wondering if I created a simple pipe loop to and from my engine cooling system can I drive the car (essentially having no heater) or is this not advised?

Thanks

Edit: I just found this thread via Google so I will start investigating now but any tips please post any help is appreciated:

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by KennyKen1988
Added info thread ref

[oldcodger]

Hi,

If you look down on page 5 of this Heater Matrix thread  it gives details of replacing one , though not something I have needed to do.🤞

https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/76133-heater/

[KennyKen1988]

With some bending and tugging it finally came out, ad it right up to the plastic edge of the blower motor cover / ECU screw hole right side very tight squeeze then the matrix shot out and I consequently clamped my thumb between the matrix and the sharp backside of the dashboard! Teach me for not wearing gloves on the final stage!

I've been in contact with Motorads and I'm ordering the following:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toyota-Celica-Toyota-Corolla-heater-matrix-Top-Quality-UK-made-with-warranty-NEW/302957854760?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

Hoping this goes in and all is well. Am I correct in saying on the refit I should pre fill the matrix from the firewall connections with coolant otherwise I'm going to have an empty void in the system and probably cause an airlock ?

Lastly what is the best coolant to use as I'm reading about incorrect colour coolants and the impact on clogging the matrix. As you can see I flushed mine through hot water in the bath and not a lot came out really, just some inky blue colour and minor fragments. The black stuff is just the foam which I was pulling off as I've dried off the matrix and filled it right up with hot water to see if the exact leak locaction can be found...

Thanks.

 

[furtula]

If you spray it with soapy water, and add a bit of compressed air to it, maybe even try blowing, it might give you the leak, if it's tiny enough, could be soldered.

 

[oldcodger]

On 11/20/2018 at 1:50 PM, KennyKen1988 said:

1,

Hoping this goes in and all is well. Am I correct in saying on the refit I should pre fill the matrix from the firewall connections with coolant otherwise I'm going to have an empty void in the system and probably cause an airlock ?

I would.

2.

Lastly what is the best coolant to use as I'm reading about incorrect colour coolants and the impact on clogging the matrix. As you can see I flushed mine through hot water in the bath and not a lot came out really, just some inky blue colour and minor fragments. The black stuff is just the foam which I was pulling off as I've dried off the matrix and filled it right up with hot water to see if the exact leak locaction can be found...

If you see my post at the end of this recent thread is what I did, think the DI water is the most important thing.

If you have flushed out blue colour coolant then clearly is been changed from the original Toyota Pink or Red.

Using a different type, not flushing properly and not using DI water would probably contribute to the matrix blocking ...?

https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/185464-air-con-ice-cold-and-no-heat/

 

[KennyKen1988]

Thanks for the assistance and linking so for its been vital!

 I got the new matrix today from motorads it's copper and brass I believe and supposed to be an improvement over the original.

I have a question regarding how well my coolant pipes should fit to this new matrix. On my old one the pipes seemed pretty snug and I had to give them a little tug for them to come out, but on this replacement the hard pipes go in but do not grip in well at all?

I'm currently trying to do the clamps up while holding the pipes into the matrix otherwise they just come straight out. Does this sound normal? I have followed the instructions printed with the matrix and lubed the o rings. The pipes seem to go as far as where the o ring sits on the pipes and no further? Any advice would be great. Ken.

[oldcodger]

Hi,

To me it almost looks like those radiator connections are for rubber hoses, but as you mention O rings not sure what the fitting is ?

If they are metal to metal and new O rings supplied and lubed but it feels loose, I would first get a vernier and measure both  the old and new pipes and see if there is any difference.

Looked around but can see no reference to those connections.

What does just make me wonder, despite you saying you had been in contact with them, is that their eBay ad says the radiator you listed does not fit the Climate control version, yet you originally posted a pic showing the digital control panel which is the Auto , Climate control version ...?  or do you have the original 3 rotary dials ?

Either way, I would contact the supplier and check with them before fitting it further, so if its not the right type you can still return it as unused.

 

[KennyKen1988]

Thanks for replying.

Yes it is metal to metal, the coolant hard pipes go into the matrix inlet/outlet holes. I had to remove the old O rings from both pipes before sliding on the new ones with lubricant added as per recommendation on the the stores instructions bundled with the matrix.

I think based on your ideas I'm going to take the matrix back out tomorrow and double check the fittings against my old one. No I don't have the rotary dials, everything is button based on my car, temperature specific choosing via push buttons with the small LCD which means climate control right? I did contact the store beforehand stating my car model, engine, year and registration and they pointed me to the correct item listing (I think)...

I have literally relayed the same message to them so hopefully I'll get an answer tomorrow about it. The O rings and fitting clamps are all just like the original Toyota ones and I did have to reference the dimensions of my old matrix to them also so I'd be surprised if this was somehow the wrong one!

I'll put the old one back in tomorrow and see how easy the pipes offer up if they seem snug and secure then I'm worried the fitment holes for this new matrix are too small!

I would like to mention I have tried the new matrix both ways round also, I noticed the old matrix must be directional as it has a plastic stopper of sorts in one hole? Does this prevent major blockages or supposed to stop back flow? Anyway the new matrix does not have this.

 

Its just like whats said in this thread "  I took a while trying to get the pipe to mate up with the matrix close enough. So....... did it work I hear you ask ?????  "

Anyway pitch black now and it was too dark even at 15:00 so its out first thing tomorrow where's that head torch!

I also just read this here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1292571

"Destroy the connectors on the old matrix freeing the pipes then gently bend them out of the way and bobs your uncle, the heater matrix just slides out from behind the centre console. "

There are two metal pipes coming from up high in the bulkhead down into the matrix. The standard Toyota part comes with these pre fixed and is a full dash out job as a result but I bought (luckily as it was all guess work) a patent replacement part off eBay for around £80 which uses the original pipes and comes with new fixing clamps.

This is really confusing now, so the original Matrix comes with the hard pipes attached? This is a bit odd it has removable clamps at the matrix and O ring seals? Can anyone confirm this?

http://www.motoradsonline.co.uk/categories/Car-Heaters/Toyota-Car-Heaters/Toyota-Corolla-Car-Heaters/

See the variety of Matrix types from Motorads, I've got the first one which does fit snug in my heater matrix surround hole but there is also the other type which I think is a little thinner and smaller in dimensions (less bulky).

Check out the photos which show the mating clamps they hook over both sides of the heater matrix and heater pipe lips.

[oldcodger]

Hi,

No idea about the plastic stopper on the original,  with  Pattern parts they often do away with bits that are not actually used, even so OEM parts are not  always truly identical as I found out when I fitted a new main radiator, had to do a bit of adjustment to the mounting brackets as the main part of the core was a larger - probable reason, the part is used in many other different vehicles.

Yes, ours is the Climate control version or as the Toyota button says AUTO.

Your first post / link to the part you say you ordered gives part no MRH0740  yet the link above in your last post  above is MRH0915 , which says for the 1.8 TS,, so which one have you actually got ?

Again do not have any  idea of what kind of clamp /fitting is used on those Ends , but would assume even with a rubber seal it should feel properly firm as its bound to be affected by the heat / pressure.

Think you are better speaking to the supplier if in any doubt, after all they should know their products , better safe than sorry !

[KennyKen1988]

The initial link yes that is the one I have ordered and they said it was the correct one to have in my case. MRH0740.

The one they have sent me is the 740 although its not printed on the invoice someone has written "0740" on the bottom corner of the sheet.

I have been advised by the seller the pipes should go in all the way, and to test without the o rings first. Also been told to lubricate more and twist a little while pushing so I'll try this now.

[KennyKen1988]

It appears to be 100% sorted now and my heating had improved massively! The car is toasty warm inside...

Anyway after all the faffing I decided to go against the instructions and fit the O rings into the recesses of the new heater matrix first, add lubricant then fit the pipes. As you can guess they slotted in perfectly! I took them out again checked the O rings to make sure they didn't jump past their seated lip and went ahead with doing them up.

I ran the car up for temp for about 30 minutes just to be sure I just left the ECU aside and all the plastic airflow pieces off to inspect the matrix. The pipes and matrix soon got hot and I've just replenished the system with water for now but I will be getting the correct coolant asap!

So just to finalize the new matrix is a worthy buy in this case I had to get one but if your heating is poor it seems swapping out for this type makes a huge difference my matrix must of been really bunged up! I must mention when fitting the new matrix I decided to do the cutting trick and hacksaw the plastic edge which means you loose one ECU mount screw point but it improves the accessibility massively.

Some attached photos to show some difference from the old and new:

[oldcodger]

Pleased for you 

Sure others will find your  post helpful in the future.