2011 Dcat White smoke problem

[threepot]

It is 150bhp, 2.2 D-CAT SR Automatic.
They are Piezo injectors, not solenoid type injectors.
They 100% do not have any copper washers fitted, and no puller is required, they literally come out with a wiggle.
As you suggest, I wonder if it is just certain injectors that do this.
I also wonder if using lower grade fuels cause this, or even if the car had petrol put it in once upon a time which was not flushed and has caused higher burn temps - I could speculate forever!

 

[lilpopjim]

Ah okay. I didn't realise they detuned the 2.2 to 150 from 180. Probably because of all the head-gasket fiasco.

Hmm okay. Well I hope mine aren't stuck like the others. Like I said, I had a 4ft prybar to remove them, putting my whole body weight into it.. Came out eventually. Took me a very long time.. Are you're injectors under the valve cover like some D4D engines or open top like this (not my car) After 10 years I fear the wont wiggle out. I'll have to do it when I remove the intake manifold to decoke it. These engines get choked up very very bad. My old 2adfhv was severely choked at 77K probably by about 40%. 

[threepot]

Mine are on top like the picture, very easy to remove - just remove the feed pipes and the over spill rail, remove clamps and they just pull out.

[lilpopjim]

Thanks for letting me know. Now I really am hopeing the removal will be as simple as it was for you. I've got 113K miles and 11 years of age so I have a lot of hope!

I also looked at the Toyota repair manuals and found that my injectors do in-fact have seats. Glad I have 4 of them sitting next to me.

[dead_dog]

Thank you threepot for this very clear exposition of your handling of the problem. And the excellent pictures.

 

I had very similar symptoms, which worsened after the installation of a new DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter). The installation of the new DPF fixed the warning on the dashboard (VSC, 4x4, Check Engine) and the fuel consumption went down.

Before the replacement of the DPF, I had a white/grey cloud now and then when warm and pulling away from a stop light or driving uphill. With the new DPF, when warm, the car sometimes just wouldn't stop smoking at all. I was afraid I had the same problem as you guys. And that the problem just became (more) visible with a clean DPF.

Turns out the EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) was completely clogged. Problem seems to be gone for now.

The shop did three of things:

1. Cleaned the EGR
2. Installed the updated software for my model
3. Set the DPF as "new" in the computer (we didn't do that when we installed the new one, and this could well have been a large part of the problem)

 

My car is the 2.2 D-CAT from 2006, 174.000 km.

[threepot]

That is good to know dead_dog, and I hope the smoke is now long long behind you 😂 Any time the DPF is replace all the adapted values and soot calculations need to be reset, otherwise the newly measured pressure sensor values will be confusing compared to the learnt values, especially as the old DPF will be heavily loaded with ash.

I want to make it clear that not all D-CAT's or D4D's are the same, mine is the 12/2008 till 12/2012 150bhp version. There are 3 main types it would appear...

11/2005 till 12/2007  
01/2007 till 12/2008
12/2008 till 12/2012

Each of these types is split into the different bhp version 134bhp, 150hp and 180bhp, which all have a different injector part number.

Mine uses the Toyota Part number 23670-29125 which has now been superseded by 23670-29126. Although the injector body is marked as 23670-26060, I suspect the different bhp injectors have different nozzles and piezo heads.

I have a spare injector which is marked as 23670-26060 which is the same as my valve body, and I fitted it last night as an experiment. It does start and run ok, but I cannot program the injector code in which is marked on the top of the injector!

My original injectors have the coding string 33xx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xx
While this other injector which is identical is 52xx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xx

I cannot program any 52.... injector string into my vehicle, the code is rejected, but it will take any 33xx coding string.
I found other strings on eBay and google photos, and it will not take any 52xx coding string.

So I suspect the different bhp 2AD-FHV / 2AD-FTV have different rated injectors with coding strings which protect them from being interchanged.

This is all speculation from experimentation. Hopefully the new injectors will arrive tomorrow.

[threepot]

21 hours ago, lilpopjim said:

The thing is, is that its intermittent which has me believe its the DPF. I've checked live data on my phone and all the data gives me the impression that it's trying to regen all the time. (AFR) drops down every so often. It used to do it once every 500 miles or so but now it seems it's every time I go out. Perhaps the 5th or any of the cylinder injectors are leaking leaving more particulate matter in the DPF, or the differential pressure sensor is out of whack. I'll have to see what the values are and see if their resistances are within spec. Fuel economy is also massively down (to be expected). Used to get 420 miles to a tank (drove it passed 0 range) but now it's 340 miles. Done a 300 mile run and still got 340 miles.

If you think its the 5th injector, just put a brake hose clamp over the feed pipe, then it's isolated and cant be the cause of excessive fuel injection.
 

[lilpopjim]

didn't know it would stop you from entering improper codes. Good ECU!
 

That's exactly what I was planning to do Threepot, probably today or tomorrow. Yesterday I reset the ECU and put half a bottle of reddex, to half a tank. I don't believe all that much in injector cleaners but hey ho. Worth a little try. I've done ECU resets before and the car always seems so much smoother whilst accelerating from a standstill while the ecu relearns the trim values etc. I done 20 miles and no smoke though there was a small puff. Saying that the 20 miles were all country roads with no idling in traffic so if the 5th injector is leaking, its all being burnt away straight away, rather than "pooling" causing a stream of smoke until the engine is worked hard to burn it away. 

Did your car have a small loss of power before you changed the injectors? My car is still as powerful as ever. Pulls really hard no matter what gear. If the car is smoking and I floor it, most of the time the smoking will stop which leads me believe it's something to do with excessive regens as the ECU stops the regen whilst I demand 100% torque.

Hoping my hardware will arrive today so I can do a proper diagnostics on the vehicle.

[threepot]

Power wise the car has always been consistent, but seeing as i've only owned the car for 8 months now, and I barely use it I have no idea if it has always been like this.

Maybe the previous owners got rid of it because of this exact problem?!

[lilpopjim]

That's a very good point, and you could be right. People do it all the time, naturally of course. It's very common, it's why i'll never buy private and only buy from dealers from now on so you have some sort of protection at least. Depends on the car at least but I think this will be my last diesel car. Been driving diesel for the most part since I started driving 7 years ago.

I've had my car for around 3 and a half years now. I lose count! It still pulls as good as ever. MY cables have arrived so i'll have chance to look better diagnose my car.

Will update with any info I find.

 

Also, I hope your injectors arrive today as well!

Do you have to send your injectors back to Mr.T straight away or can you buy them with the promise of returning yours after you've fitted the new ones?

[threepot]

There is a return surcharge/deposit on the old injectors, so we can keep them for upto 30 day before giving them back for the refund.

To be honest, once this RAV4 properly resolved, I will be getting rid of it. I much prefer my old 2007 Lexus RX400h, which I bought the RAV4 to replace.

I am going to find a nice clean low mileage RX400h to replace my old one instead of the RAV4. The lexus is fast, quiet, and comfy, and I don't mind getting 21 mpg out of it round locally, on a long journey I can get 33mpg of it it. It's done 165k miles, trouble free, which is all I am after really. The V6 petrol hyrbid is sexy and smooth, and the synergy transmission is ace. Going back to driving this 2011 RAV4 Auto, or my dads 2006 RAV4 Manual, they are a bit more "agricultural", I've become quite attached to driving the luxo barge.

Toyota brand stuff is awesome, but from working in the diagnostic game for nearly 10 years now the most troublesome Toyota's are the 2004 onwards D4D's - they are better than most other brands of vehicle for reliability don't get me wrong, but the petrol engines never really have any issues. Plus I don't get slimy hands putting fuel in, nor do they stink when running them on my drive to defrost them.

[lilpopjim]

Ah okay that's nice of them then.

My parents had an RX 400h many years ago. I loved the thing when I was younger than I am now. Silky smooth with eh V6 and electric motor. Had good power and economy as well for what it was. Fantastic car. They had it for 3 years before getting a Range Rover 3.6 TDV8 which they spent a couple grand on for repairs.. they now have a 4.4 TDV8 which still costs then money.

Out of the 2 Land Cruisers and the Lexus, covering 9 years, they didn't spend a single penny on repairs. Just oil and brakes etc. With the range rover.. they've spent a fair amount.. they're crap when you compare the engineering with the Toyotas.

I've been lucky with my 2.2. I've owned it since 75K miles. Now on 113K, not a single problem up till now. Have to expect something to happen over 38,000 miles though.  Not everything is perfect.

[Heidfirst]

On 3/13/2019 at 1:33 PM, lilpopjim said:

Ah okay. I didn't realise they detuned the 2.2 to 150 from 180. Probably because of all the head-gasket fiasco.

No, both versions were made since 2005. Iirc there was also a 134?bhp version in a RAV model.

How many miles are on your vehicle - is it possible that the DPF is full & end of life (it is a consumable)?

[lilpopjim]

Done some live data whilst driving, only about 20 minutes worth. 3/4 was country roads with the rest being on an A road.

As you can see on the left with the values i'm monitoring, the DPF status was in an operative mode the whole time whilst driving which is odd seeing as i was poodling around country roads with an average speed of roughly 30/35mph.

The DPF should regen when the vehicle is over 50mph however, it will regen whilst traveling slower if the DPF is really full but this doesn't seem to be the case as the pressure differential across the two sensors isn't even .1 PSI. I should also mention that the large spikes are me flooring it, whilst the jagged area 2 thirds in are on the A road. I wasn't at a constant speed or gear.

Exhaust temperature was around 200 ˚C until I floored it in third where it spikes to just under 500˚C where it hovers between 300-500 for the rest of the journey.
 

Another thing is that, in the second picture which is zoomed in. I was stationary on my driveway. You can see the flat spot at the beginning (blue line). It starts to increase to 500˚C where the DPF will start regening (I should've monitored both temperature sensors). It starts to drop then the status monitor reverts to standby which is when I turn the vehicle off.

Ive also had no smoke since resetting my ECU and dumping loads of reddex in the tank. Only done around 55 miles though. Saying that, it started smokeing after a 7 mile round trip. Started smokeing after 4 miles whilst I went to town.

My next port of call will be to stop fuel from going to the 5th injector. If this stops excessive temprature of the exhaust then i'll put it down to the ECU update which needs doing. I have the files ready, just a case of uploading the files to the ECU.

Threepot, do you know if theres a way to pull the origional file off the ECU? I don't want to lose my remap haha

 

edit: Should also mention all my injector trim values were within +- 1.0 which as far as i'm aware are within spec.

 

[threepot]

Good job getting setup, please print screen me a datalog of:-

RPM
Boost
DPF differential pressure.

Show me a pull from idle though a couple of gears.

Yes you can dump the flash, but you will need something like "alientech kess" or KTAG or something to my knowledge.
Personally, I think the software update is not the answer. If the software was faulty, all these vehicles would have this problem continuously from new.

[lilpopjim]

What kind of throttle you looking for? Just a normal pull away?

I'll see if I can datalog tomorrow. It's annoying that the version I have (10.0) will only log 30 seconds when you record the data. Some values also update extremely slowly (i'm using tech stream). I think i'll need to play around with some drivers and makesure I select the proper ECU number as I just clicked whatever on the drop down lists to get it working.

I'll see if I can source some software which can do that then. Thank you for the suggestions. 

It could be the update as I'm not sure if the tuner pulled the file from my car or pulled it from a database.  so the one that got re-flashed to my car could've been an older version. I'll dig around in techstream and see If I can find the version number.

 

Thank you for the help thus far.  been super

[threepot]

Lets see it make full boost, then we can see what the DPF differential pressure sensor reading behaves like under proper load conditions. Please graph and post up = RPM + Boost pressure actual + MAF + DPF differential pressure

 

But back to my car, just fitted my new injectors, and programmed them in. And I am back running again. Sounding smoother than ever before.
To give you an idea my new Injector Correction Factors on brand new injectors are:-

Cylinder 1 = +0.4
Cylinder 2 = -0.5
Cylinder 3 = -0.2
Cylinder 4 = -0.2
 

While my old one when running was on for -2 and other were +0.8, I will run it a bit and see if they change a bit with a couple of runs out.

Also for the record the fault codes I got when it wouldn't start were:-
P1604 Startability Malfunction
P0093 Fuel system large leak detected
And when I dipped the dipstick after alot of trying to start it, the oil level was way over the line as the sump was full of diesel as it leaks past the rings.
 

[lilpopjim]

Will do. Should be able to do it today.

Do you know what the values should be? I've tried searching for a service sheet of sorts but couldn't find anything other than the proper voltages/ resistances each sensor should be when testing with a multimeter.

Glad your car is up and running again! Should hope it runs quiet and smooth as anything. Should expect the value to change a tiny bit not not much i'd imagine as fuel trim is learnt and set.

Suppose there was a fair amount?

Luckily my oil has only dropped about 5mm below max in the past 9,000 miles. due a service now! Wonder if this will help with the smoke; fresh oil!

[lilpopjim]

Okay managed to do a bit of logging on my way to the gym and back again.  First one is the whole journey. It's only about 4 miles. First picture is the entire journey. The long flat spot is traffic in town, crawling.

Screenshot 2 is a third gear pull. I wish there were more data points. Seems to update a bit slow no not all that accurate. 

fourth one is another third gear pull. IT was a third to fourth up to 4K rpm each before I ran out of country road.. Doing 80mph at 4K rpm in 4th so thats where i'll end it..

Last screen **** was the whole of the return journey. You can see the points where I was able to reach 100% throttle towards the end.

It's a shame you can only capture and save 30 seconds at a time on techstream.

 

As you can see, the DPF never actually regenerated, nor was it instructed to do so. Strangely enough I haven't had a puff of smoke since resetting the ECU and dumping the reddex.. I should mention that resetting the ECU was just pulling the fuse. It wasn't an update. 

The calibration ID for the ECU is 302U8000. I'm not sure if that's the firmware version or not. Can't seem to find that information.

[threepot]

What is your MAP value with just the ignition on, and the engine not running?

[lilpopjim]

14psi. On my phone I can get it to 2 d.p. says 14.45 if I remember right. 

edit: Normally boosts up to 15psi on my phone. Will boost 17psi 60+ mph in 6th.

[threepot]

MAF readings, MAP reading and DPF pressure values all look realistic and normal to me. But I am not a Toyota expert! All the core sensors seem to be reading OK anyway and giving realistic values. MAF reading calculate about right for about 170bhp - but that is a rule of thumb estimation not truth. Pressure response on the DPF looks good for a nice clean empty soot bucket!

[lilpopjim]

This is exactly what I was thinking as well. Everything looks okay to me. I'll have to see what it's like on a longer journey but so far since the reset etc, everything has been fine. Power delivery has been smoother and no smoke.

I have another MAF which i'll plug in to see if the values are the same as the current one. Typically peaks at around 130 grams per second.

the DPF seem absolutely fine to me as well as you say, nice and clean for a soot bucket.. I removed my exhaust the other day and inspected the bottom of the DPF. given I can only see probably 1% of the actually core but it was all clean, not black and looked immaculate. 

Will have to see how it is later next week when I return to University on my 36 mile one way commute. 

 

Edit: Any thoughts on keeping your RAV 4 now it's up and running? Still gonna go for the RX?

[threepot]

I'm going to put a couple of thousand miles on the clock to make sure its good, then sell it on.

I really can't be ubikd with all these diesel type problems.... egr, dpf, high pressure fuel pumps and precision injectors.

Petrols just work, and even though the lexus is 2.2 tones, it does 0-60 in 7 seconds. Pitty the other car in any sort of impact 😄

[lilpopjim]

Sounds good. This is the first engine issue i've had with my car after 38K miles and almost 4 years of ownership so i'm not terribly bothered about it. Have to expect something after 113,000 miles.

That's what I loved about the lexus. Still got 30-35 to the gallon despite being a 3.6l V6 petrol. Lovely smooth car that was. 

 

Ill report back should anything else happen. So far, all seems well. Would like to know what the milage is like as well.