2011 Dcat White smoke problem

[ToyotaGang]

When i replaced the 5th injector it did not smoke the next 50 km. But it started smokin again for me

[velles2003]

I think you're right. It hasn't been emitting smoke for the last 1500km or so. But I did a long trip on the highway just after changing the fifth so I think that cleaned the sooth of the DPF. After that I was driving in town. Today I saw some smoke. Not lasted very long. Just for a few km. Just on acceleration. I think it's trying regenerating the DPF again. So my next action will be to remap ecu to remove dpf 

[Gungod]

My first post here so Hi!

I have '07 Rav4 @ 170k km, 2AD-FHV 177HP with  same issue with white smoke and increased fuel consumption, 13.5/100km city. As far as my collected information 90% of problems with smoke are caused by 5-th injector operation, but issues are related with DPF.
For example if DPF had to rejuvenate, 5th injector is activated and:
1. 5th injector passage to exhaust get clogged and fuel is not delivered correctly in exhaust gases. Instead of be sprayed as mist it leak as liquid and is delivered as liquid. This cause the white smoke (temperature related)
2. 5th injector not function properly and leak. Not so common and not so hard to check.
3. Big leak from main injectors. But this way it smoke all the time and oil level is increased (because of diesel entering engine). Easy to check.
4. Not working correctly temperature sensors and/or DPF deferential pressure sensor. They are also easy to check.
5. Clogged EGR can also help but not so important for this issue. Most of this engines need regular cleaning of EGR valve (once per year) and inlet manifold (every two years if lot of city driving or once per 3 years if more highway). But again it is not main reason for smoke.
6. Software related with main injectors. This had to be confirmed by someone qualified or Toyota representative.

 When DPF rejuvenate event occur 5-th injector is activated. Because of one or more point from above it will start to smoke. Under normal rejuvenation there will be not much smoke so if there is smoke something is not ok and have to be check.

One example:
ECU initiate rejuvenate of DPF mode (there is two mode available, too much particle mater called "PM"  and anti sulfur high carbon bla bla bla called "S"  if event occur it will try rejuvenate under following condition RPM over 1250, hot engine over 60C and specific temperature of exhaust sensors. First it inject very small fuel and temperature go up after time it stop and temperature go down after period of time 5-th injector is activated with controlled action to reach temperatures around 500-600C. ECU decide when to stop from DPF differential pressure sensor and prob other thing (not ware for all of them). If some of the point up cause trouble process stop and will restart again when initial start conditions are met again. Some time because of point up process cannot finish or even to start. So it try to start it again and in most case by injecting fuel from fifth injector. Result is you are sitting on red lights and exhaust smoke hard.

I will try to play with mine and will let you know for results if there any 😄 

[Jeya]

On 12/10/2021 at 8:18 PM, velles2003 said:

Fifth injector changed. Now it doesn't smoke at all. 

still no smoke? 

 

mine restart to smoke after 1 week or 500km 

 

maybe this car just work like that, after all...

[velles2003]

started smoking again. it smokes everyday.  i talked to a mechanic. thinks the Dpf exhaust diff. pressure sensor its to blame (the dpf code part is 8948152010).  i'll change it and update.   the mechanic took a look at the tailpipe (saw it clean) and said that he thinks the sensor is misbehaving and reporting false and triggering dpf regens.  i did 2 full forced and complete regens yesterday and still smoked like a furnace today.  

[Jeya]

changed mine too

 

no change ...

[Jeya]

I read somewhere that the 5th injector spray during the warming of the car, to speed up the warming of the DPF

 

is that true ?

[velles2003]

Yes, I think that is correct. 

I've changed the DPF pressure sensor and now there is a litle bit of white Grey blue smoke at warming up, at acceleration, when the temp of the cooling liquid is between 60-70 deg.Celsius. But only for 20-30 seconds. And then it does not seem to smoke ate all. The saga continues. 

 

[Jeya]

On 12/25/2021 at 9:33 PM, velles2003 said:

Yes, I think that is correct. 

I've changed the DPF pressure sensor and now there is a litle bit of white Grey blue smoke at warming up, at acceleration, when the temp of the cooling liquid is between 60-70 deg.Celsius. But only for 20-30 seconds. And then it does not seem to smoke ate all. The saga continues. 

 

yes same here, only smoke during the warming up

maybe "normal", but it's embarrassing a lot...

[Jeya]

happy new year ! 

I have a question : is there any risks for my DPF if I unplug the 5th injector for a long time? 

I have another 5th injector, I will plug it

and I plug back the DPF injector once a month to regenerate the dpf ? 

[velles2003]

Happy new year! 

I think it's worth trying. Maybe it will give out an error. Maybe not. It depends on how much soot is on the DPF. I wanted to do exactly that but it got cold and I got lazy. 

Try reading this article about injector trouble codes.

https://auto-master.su/en/toyota-rav-4-2ad-fhv-engine/dtc-p1386

It states that if the flow from the fifth injector is insufficient in normal drive, it will give a trouble code but not enter safe mode. If the car is is dpf regen mode it will enter fail-safe mode and limit performance.

[Jeya]

I've tried something different

 

I put this on the 5th injector line : 

https://www.amazon.fr/Inntek-Flexibles-Conduites-Chauffages-Radiateurs/dp/B08NBZ59Z3/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=pince+à+durites&qid=1641208374&sr=8-6

 

and no smoke at all !

 

My Dpf is brand new, so there is a problem with the sensors I think...

[Gungod]

On 12/25/2021 at 10:33 PM, velles2003 said:

Yes, I think that is correct. 

I've changed the DPF pressure sensor and now there is a litle bit of white Grey blue smoke at warming up, at acceleration, when the temp of the cooling liquid is between 60-70 deg.Celsius. But only for 20-30 seconds. And then it does not seem to smoke ate all. The saga continues. 

 

DPF pressure sensor had something like learning to work prpperly. I think it was only to remove Battery for 10 min. but you better check.

On 1/3/2022 at 1:14 PM, Jeya said:

I've tried something different

 

I put this on the 5th injector line : 

https://www.amazon.fr/Inntek-Flexibles-Conduites-Chauffages-Radiateurs/dp/B08NBZ59Z3/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=pince+à+durites&qid=1641208374&sr=8-6

 

and no smoke at all !

 

My Dpf is brand new, so there is a problem with the sensors I think...

This will brobably stop smoke but you won't regenerate your DPF so you will clog it faster.

Looks like main injector also are affected while there is Reujevenate/regenaration  occur
"However, over time the amount of soot in the filter is increased and its capacity is reduced which requires active regeneration. The control unit determines clogging of the filter by analysis of driving conditions and the differential pressure sensor data and activates main injectors and the exhaust fuel injector."

This and other interesting reading for Toyota AD series diesel engines is at another forum but i am not sure if i can i post link here?

[Jeya]

since I made this, no smoke at all

this make me think this smoke is "normal" after all...

it appears when the engine is heating, and it may inject with the 5th injector to heat the DPF too.

that's why it happen only with cold weather

 

but how embarrassing it is... 

[Stivino]

Mine does it when hot too, even on the motorway after being driven for a long time. 

[velles2003]

I've come to think that the problem is more complex than swapping a single piece. In my case changing the fifth, the MAF and DPF sensor really improved the situation. I still know when it smokes  a little and for a few seconds but it isn't as bad as before. And I am now driving in town in horrible trafic. The mileage is awfull at 12L/100km and I am convinced that having the main injectors a bit off the specs and the DPF pretty clogged up after 230000 km is another cause. I will eventually change the DPF if the smoke will get worse again. 

[velles2003]

14 hours ago, Gungod said:

DPF pressure sensor had something like learning to work prpperly. I think it was only to remove battery for 10 min. but you better check.

This will brobably stop smoke but you won't regenerate your DPF so you will clog it faster.

Looks like main injector also are affected while there is Reujevenate/regenaration  occur
"However, over time the amount of soot in the filter is increased and its capacity is reduced which requires active regeneration. The control unit determines clogging of the filter by analysis of driving conditions and the differential pressure sensor data and activates main injectors and the exhaust fuel injector."

This and other interesting reading for Toyota AD series diesel engines is at another forum but i am not sure if i can i post link here?

I think you can post it. If it's interesting info and helps.. Why not. It's not advertising or anything like that 

[Gungod]

2 hours ago, velles2003 said:

I think you can post it. If it's interesting info and helps.. Why not. It's not advertising or anything like that 

Here is the link:
https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/13-01-01_faq_ad-engine_eng.htm

It explains a lot of things. If can i understand correct Toyouta made this engine in a hurry to get in new ECO norms but is obvious that this ECU auto reujevenate sucks and need update! For me is 90% software isue. Later they replaced these engines with BMW ones.

Let's report what i have done so far for mine. I only clean the nozle of fifth injector and the passage to the 4th cilinder exhaust.

Result is i go down to 10.5L/100km city driving from 13.5L/100km. but i still have time to time smoke in city driving.

But now i think i not clean it very good because i just stuck a piece of wire few time in and out. I think i should clean it again in detail with some spiral wire brush like the one used for pipe clean or similar and anty carbon spray.

had smthng in mind , but will write will write tonight.

 

[Jeya]

I've tried something.

With Techstream I can check the value of the differential pressure sensor.  when I shake it the value change .

from 0.2 kPa to 0.9 kPa. 

I've ordered the connector and will change the wires

 

[ToyotaGang]

If a Toyota AD series engine smokes blue smoke. Short answer the DPF is faulty. People tend to see this issue when their car has driven over 150000km. Many think this issue comes from sensors and the 5th injector which reacts with the catalyst in the DPF. Replacing the 5th injector does help until the ECU learns how to use it again. That takes around 50km, but when the ECU learns how to use it again. It does the job totally correctly. But the only reason why the car is smoking is because of a worn out DPF. The diesel that the 5th injector is spraying helps to react with the catalyst in the DPF. But when there is no catalyst left in the DPF and the 5th sprayes diesel. The diesel hits the warmed DPF and just burns and becomes steam. Many people think this it smoke, but it's not. It's steam.

Other makers such as Mercedes and BMW claimed that the DPF should be replaced every 100000km while Toyota never claimed that to their cars so theese eninges run with faulty DPF and not get a Check Engine Light. So thats why the "smoke" happens.

[ToyotaGang]

Just a quick add. The ECU update that Toyota made does not work because this issue is not ECU based but hardware based.

[Stivino]

16 minutes ago, ToyotaGang said:

Short answer the DPF is faulty.

Impossible. Can you explain why that could be?

[ToyotaGang]

It is by no means impossible. DPF filters become worn and looses their catalyst over time and by the milage. The job of the fifth injector is to get the diesel it sprays in the DPF to react with catalyst in the DPF to reduce the amount of NOx. But when the DPF is worn out and there is no more catalyst in the DPF all the diesel that is sprayed in the DPF becomes steam due to the diesel hits the warm DPF. And thats why the car only smokes when the engine is warm. Toyota never planned a service to replace the DPF at a certain milage. While other makers recommended that the DPF should be replaced at a certain milage.

[Cyker]

I'm not sure you're right... the DPF is not reactive; It's just a ceramic honeycomb that traps soot. The cat is constructed in a similar way and is usually more free-flowing with more surface area. They are sometimes integrated, but neither should affect the other's function unless the honeycomb structure fractures/breaks up.

What's supposed to happen is, if you drive it as intended, the DPF will get hot enough on its own to ignite the soot and burn it off. The only reason the 5th injector is there is for when the DPF doesn't get hot enough, but the car needs to burn off some soot, so it injects a fine mist of diesel into the hot exhaust gas which hopefully burns and starts a chain reaction of the soot igniting.

In practice this rarely works and you just end up with a DPF covered with unburnt diesel which eventually drains back into the oil sump, eventually raising the oil level too high if it goes on for too long.

If the smoke is bluish it's usually this raised oil level that is the problem.

If it's white, it depends on what kind of white - It could just be steam like petrol cars get; Diesel cars tend to output less visible steam but they still will on cold days. The other kind is what I like to call airshow smoke - That is usually the result of the aforementioned DPF being covered with diesel. Diesel doesn't burn well when it's liquid, so if the 5th injector's not spraying properly or the mist doesn't burn in time and just coats the DPF, all that liquid diesel just gets heated up and burns like white airshow smoke instead of cleanly.

Either way, not a good sign.

What we take from this is: Don't buy a diesel unless you drive crazy TonyHSD-levels of mileage  

[Catlover]

Interesting read TGang.