Poor headlights using HIR2 bulbs confirmed?

[Heidfirst]

3 hours ago, 007matt said:

I didn't mind the projectors on the Yaris simply because I can install hid on it, about the same cost as the optiwhites, although it give out 4-5 times the light output. 

Not legally for road use unless the lamp unit is marked as suitable for HID ... If it isn't the car should fail it's next MOT if you take it for testing so-equipped.

& then there is the levelling/headlight wash situation.

[nielshm]

I find the range from the dipped beam terrible. At night in the rain, the road turns completely black. It's just like the light can't be seen. High beam is much better, but can't be used for long, oncoming traffic etc. 

[stevecrvn]

I( have fitted Optiwhite bulbs to my Auris It is a worthwhile upgrade as the std lights are so poor.  The lights are now brighter but the obviously the range or direction does not change due to the design of the highlight itself. There are a few features I think the MK1 Auris I had previously done much better than this MK2 . Highlights being  one of them

[007matt]

7 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

Not legally for road use unless the lamp unit is marked as suitable for HID ... If it isn't the car should fail it's next MOT if you take it for testing so-equipped.

& then there is the levelling/headlight wash situation.

Not something I'm  concerns with. I probably have an accident with the standard bulbs in the country roads through not being able to see. HID eliminate that problem. 

[Mick F]

You do as you wish, but I'll be staying on the correct side of the law.

If - God forbid - you are involved in an accident even if it's not your fault in the slightest, you won't technically be insured.  The authorities will be onto you like a tone of bricks, and your insurance company won't want to know.

Mick.

[007matt]

It's all declared and insured. 

I was actually involved in an accident 4 months ago, the 3rd were at fault and paid out straight forward as it should. 

[Mick F]

All declared to your insurance and they are happy?  Comply with the construction and use laws as well?  You have to be both.

If so, excellent.  Do tell us more.

Mick.

[Heidfirst]

3 hours ago, 007matt said:

It's all declared and insured. 

you actually declared to your insurer that you have fitted an illegal modification & they were happy? which insurer?

[007matt]

In your opinion its illegal, which I don't go by as with all internet forum opinions. 

Adrian Flux. 

Mick F - best thing to do is have a chat with your insurer and see what their position is on HID mod, rather than listen to people on internet forums voicing their opinions, including myself. 

[Heidfirst]

1 hour ago, 007matt said:

In your opinion its illegal, which I don't go by as with all internet forum opinions. 

if all that you have done is fit HID bulbs/conversion kit to a non-HID approved/marked lamp unit then it is illegal for road use hence why it should also fail the revised MOT if so presented.

Perhaps DAN@ADRIAN FLUX would care to comment?

[Mick F]

12 hours ago, 007matt said:

Mick F - best thing to do is have a chat with your insurer and see what their position is on HID mod, rather than listen to people on internet forums voicing their opinions, including myself. 

I suggest you read this https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/aftermarket-hid-headlamps/aftermarket-hid-headlamps  This is an internet forum of course, but Gov.UK has some authority.

If you comply with the law, I would be surprised.

Mick.

[YarisHybrid2016]

IANAL, but that gov.uk link (here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/aftermarket-hid-headlamps/aftermarket-hid-headlamps ) has some interesting wording.

First it says:

===========
In the Department for Transport’s (DfT) view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to xenon HID he must purchase completely new xenon HID headlamps.
===========

Clear so far... Note also it is only an opinion of the department, and not legally binding.

It then says:

===========
The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK. Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply with European type approval regulations.
===========

So under UK law, HIDs of any source are not legal. Also clear.

Under EU Type Approval (which the UK must accept), they are legal, so we defer to EU law:

===========
For the aftermarket, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because this only applies to new vehicles. However DfT does not think it reasonable simply to ban HID in the aftermarket. Instead the Department makes analogies with new vehicles. It seems reasonable to require HID in the aftermarket to meet the same safety standards as those for new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
===========

So it's illegal under UK Law, legal under EU Type Approval for new vehicles only, but then the Government choose to ignore UK law, and choose to bend EU law, and so make the sale and fitting of HIDs legal, and should (not MUST) comply with all the safety standards of new cars, *****which they just said can't happen under EU Type Approval*****.

So they actually say it is legal to fit them, because they also state it is not possible to get type approval.

Test case required, me thinks.

[Heidfirst]

1 hour ago, YarisHybrid2016 said:

===========
For the aftermarket, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because this only applies to new vehicles. However DfT does not think it reasonable simply to ban HID in the aftermarket. Instead the Department makes analogies with new vehicles. It seems reasonable to require HID in the aftermarket to meet the same safety standards as those for new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
===========

So it's illegal under UK Law, legal under EU Type Approval for new vehicles only, but then the Government choose to ignore UK law, and choose to bend EU law, and so make the sale and fitting of HIDs legal, and should (not MUST) comply with all the safety standards of new cars, *****which they just said can't happen under EU Type Approval*****.

So they actually say it is legal to fit them, because they also state it is not possible to get type approval.

Test case required, me thinks.

it is possible to retrofit HIDs to a car to standards that would comply but it could be very expensive (depending upon what light units were already fitted, & if levelling & headlamp wash already were).

HIDs are legal for offroad use.

2 ( I didn't bother to check more) of the largest suppliers (powerbulbs & HIDS4U) of aftermarket HIDs also say on their websites (although you have to go looking ...) that they aren't road legal.

The problem with these laws (as in many cases) is enforcement of existing legislation.

[French Auris]

As this thread is about front headlights, i have a 2018 auris design hybrid, is it possible to change the headlamp unit to the LED headlight unit, would this be possible without a change in wiring? Apparently Toyota france say its not possible.

Sent from my LG-H818 using Tapatalk

[Heidfirst]

i would have thought theoretically so but it would cost thousands of euros & it may also require fitting headlight washers & auto levelling to be road legal. It's just not cost effective.

[French Auris]

i would have thought theoretically so but it would cost thousands of euros & it may also require fitting headlight washers & auto levelling to be road legal. It's just not cost effective.

Ok so auto leveling is a must but headlight washers i don't think it would matter here in the south east of France too much. As all of toyota worldwide, they all seem surprised when its mentioned that the headlights are a bit crappy.

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[Heidfirst]

3 minutes ago, French Auris said:

Ok so auto leveling is a must but headlight washers i don't think it would matter here in the south east of France too much. 

they are mandated by law above a certain amount of lumen output.

[Mick F]

On 1/10/2019 at 8:42 PM, Mick F said:

PS:

Has anyone ever fitted auxiliary lamps to a Mk3 Yaris?

These for instance? https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/cibie-super-oscar-lamp-241970/

Anyone care to answer?  Has anyone done it?

Where would you mount them?  Can they be controlled by the normal dip/full beam switch so they come on automatically on full beam?

Mick.

[FROSTYBALLS]

5 minutes ago, Mick F said:

Anyone care to answer?  Has anyone done it?

Where would you mount them?  Can they be controlled by the normal dip/full beam switch so they come on automatically on full beam?

Mick.

Probably better starting a new topic

[Chriss27]

By the way are fitting optiwhite bulbs classed as a modification?

[FROSTYBALLS]

19 minutes ago, Chriss27 said:

By the way are fitting optiwhite bulbs classed as a modification?

No.

[Harriethawk]

On 1/11/2019 at 5:51 AM, nielshm said:

I find the range from the dipped beam terrible. At night in the rain, the road turns completely black. It's just like the light can't be seen. High beam is much better, but can't be used for long, oncoming traffic etc. 

I've just updated my 2016 Yaris for a 2018 model and I am having the same problems. I've never felt so unsafe in a car at night before. The Toyota garage can do nothing they tell ne as it is MOT worthy. Leave me no alternative but to change my car, I like the Yaris but do other models have the same problem? I wish I hadn't updated from my 2016 hybrid model.

[Harriethawk]

BTW the Toyota will not fit these Optiwhite bulbs

[FROSTYBALLS]

34 minutes ago, Harriethawk said:

BTW the Toyota will not fit these Optiwhite bulbs

It won't be Toyota who have declined to fit - it is the dealer, which is their choice.

Aside from that there are alternative upgrade halogen bulbs to the Optiwhites by Elta, PIAA, Philips, etc. Halfords also stock their own brand upgrade bulbs, and Halfords provide a fitting service.

LED bulbs fitted to headlights designed for halogen will fail the MOT.

[Gerg]

3 hours ago, Harriethawk said:

but do other models have the same problem?

I don't know how many of these threads you've read on here - some of the below has been said elsewhere...

There are other brands of cars that use the exact same headlamp bulb/system.  There are often owners complaining about the headlamp performance of these cars (e.g. Vauxhall Insignia, Ampera).  Some owners of other Toyotas (some Aygo and Auris, for example) have noted that the headlamps seem to be barely more use than the daytime running lights.

It is interesting that you find the headlamps worse than those on your older model. 

Whilst this is not a normal route to better output, halogen headlamp bulbs do become a little dimmer with use.  Installing new 'normal' bulbs will sometimes improve things detectably.  But it won't make that much difference, and the bulbs are not cheap.

Any halogen headlamp bulbs sold as an 'upgrade bulb' will have a shorter lifespan, by the way.  The Optiwhites claim 500 hours life, if I remember correctly.  In our situation that was a year's driving. And when they fail, the pair often go in very quick succession, potentially leaving you with no headlamps at all.  We have had this happen.  Do carry a spare bulb!