New 2019 RAV4 HSD fuel economy ?

[HSDish]

Toyota UK says 49.5-51.3 mpg fuel economy for new 2019 RAV4 (new WLTP )

https://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/rav4/

do You think that would be realistic compared to  Prius+ (new WLTP)

https://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/prius-plus/

47-48.7 mpg

I've driven my (new) Prius + 2016/17 for 2000km (about 1242 miles ? ) now ( from dec 7 to jan 14 mixed driving in cold weather . -3 to +6 degrees) and when I check fuel consumption brim to brim it says  55'6 mpg

[HSDish]

Is it likely that the 2wd RAV4 2019 will consume less fuel than 4wd ?

[PeteB]

35 minutes ago, HSDish said:

Is it likely that the 2wd RAV4 2019 will consume less fuel than 4wd ?

As the 4wd is achieved via a small electric motor in the rear axle rather than lots of extra shafts and differentials, I doubt it makes as much difference as cars with mechanical 4WD.

If the rear electric motor also contributes to regenerative braking (I've not seen any info on that so far) it may even be slightly better.

[HSDish]

1 minute ago, PeteB said:

As the 4wd is achieved via a small electric motor in the rear axle rather than lots of extra shafts and differentials, I doubt it makes as much difference and cars with mechanical 4WD.

If the rear electric motor also contributes to regenerative braking (I've not seen any info on that so far) it may even be slightly better.

Thanks!

 

I think my lokal Toyota dealer will have a demo RAV HSD 2019 by 8/9 february. 

Will ask them then

[PeteB]

13 minutes ago, HSDish said:

I think my lokal Toyota dealer will have a demo RAV HSD 2019 by 8/9 february. 

Will ask them then

I've also posed the question on the Blog site.

[IanML]

1 hour ago, PeteB said:

As the 4wd is achieved via a small electric motor in the rear axle rather than lots of extra shafts and differentials, I doubt it makes as much difference as cars with mechanical 4WD.

If the rear electric motor also contributes to regenerative braking (I've not seen any info on that so far) it may even be slightly better.

Perhaps not.  It does save weight as regards not requiring a transfer box and propeller shaft, but requires a larger (and therefore heavier0 electrical generator and a fairly hefty motor at the back, and it still needs a rear differential.  Plus, if it does do regenerative braking, it requires a hefty Battery to store the energy.

If it was a PHEV, there would be potential for fuel saving, provided owners availed themselves of the facility.  A recent survey revealed that many PHEV owners do not - the charging cable remains packed in it's original wrapping in the boot!

[Heidfirst]

9 hours ago, PeteB said:

As the 4wd is achieved via a small electric motor in the rear axle rather than lots of extra shafts and differentials, I doubt it makes as much difference as cars with mechanical 4WD.

iirc I have seen something , somewhere that put it at about 3% ...

[philip42h]

While we don't have any real world data for the Rav 4.5 yet, it's hybrid engine is 'merely' a refinement of that in the 4.4 hybrid.Honest John's Real MPG suggests that achieves around 80% of the claimed economy. So in the absence of better data I'd expect a similar result, giving economies in the low 40's ...

[IanML]

Interesting,  The site suggests that hybrid 4WD gives 3.4 mpg less than 2WD, which is worse than the D4D with/without mechanical 4WD.  Whether you think this significant is a matter of opinion.

What does stand out is that the hybrids are roughly as economical as the diesels.

[philip42h]

31 minutes ago, IanML said:

Interesting,  The site suggests that hybrid 4WD gives 3.4 mpg less than 2WD, which is worse than the D4D with/without mechanical 4WD.  Whether you think this significant is a matter of opinion.

What does stand out is that the hybrids are roughly as economical as the diesels.

I must admit that I thought that was almost the point ... 🙂 ... the addition of the electric motor(s) to a petrol engine provides the sort of torque (acceleration) and economy that a decent diesel has in the first place (but with potentially reduced emissions - less sooty emissions in any case).

You can't really trust the sources of Honest John's data - it comes from the general public and isn't 'validated' in any way - but it is reasonably indicative of peoples experience - namely that actual experience falls some way short of the official test data.

Beyond that we need to try to compare "like with like" - as far as that is possible. I have a D-CAT Auto 4WD and get around 37 mpg against the official 42.2 - so around 90% of the 'target' value. And I know from experience that the 'per tank' figures vary considerably (between 31 and 44 mpg) depending on the profile of my journeys and how I drive them.

The 4.4 hybrid is an auto so you can't really opt to change up particularly early and the system will let the engine rev freely if you attempt to accelerate quickly which means at one level it is reasonably comparable with mine. If the HJ figures are to be believed in 4WD form folk are getting around 42 mpg - which is around 15% better than mine (more than 10%, less than 20% better). But I'm prepared to bet that mine will win hands down on a long "high speed" run while the hybrid will absolutely crucify mine around town. You pays your money and all that ...

[Devon Aygo]

As mentioned above the new Rav4 has no real/similar basis for comparison yet, comparing figures for the new car against old ( using official figures ) is pointless as the older Rav was tested under the old NEDC test regime which is widely recognised as being so out of date an inaccurate new Rav has been tested under the WLTP regime which will apparently offer official figures much closer to the real world, these figures are notably lower than those achieved by the old test.

Also new Rav is on an all new platform with an all new engine, transmission and significantly revised Hybrid system the only car on the road at the moment that is even close would be the Camry Hybrid and then only the underpinnings and engine shared.

We are going to have to wait an see what it is ultimately capable of once road testers and customer start to feed back real world driving figures.

[Heidfirst]

3 hours ago, Devon Aygo said:

As mentioned above the new Rav4 has no real/similar basis for comparison yet, comparing figures for the new car against old ( using official figures ) is pointless as the older Rav was tested under the old NEDC test regime which is widely recognised as being so out of date an inaccurate new Rav has been tested under the WLTP regime which will apparently offer official figures much closer to the real world, these figures are notably lower than those achieved by the old test.

Also new Rav is on an all new platform with an all new engine, transmission and significantly revised Hybrid system the only car on the road at the moment that is even close would be the Camry Hybrid and then only the underpinnings and engine shared.

We are going to have to wait an see what it is ultimately capable of once road testers and customer start to feed back real world driving figures.

We have Toyota estimates at least e.g. https://www.cars.com/articles/2019-toyota-rav4-the-rav411-on-pricing-and-fuel-economy-1420704356712/

• Toyota estimates FWD models will get 26/34/29 mpg city/highway/combined for the LE and Limited (27/34/29 for the front-drive XLE and XLE Premium). That's up considerably versus the 2018 RAV4's 25-26 mpg with FWD, depending on trim, in combined EPA ratings.
• Impressively, AWD models should see virtually no mileage penalty, with projected ratings at 26/33/29 mpg for the LE, XLE and XLE Premium trim.
• Adventure and Limited AWD drive models have a separate, more complex AWD system and see a moderate drop-off to 24/32/27 mpg. If EPA numbers confirm this, it's still better than the prior RAV4's FWD rating.

Obviously the above are for US gallon rather than imperial & for their tests. Interesting that there are 2 different AWD systems.

[IanML]

9 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

…..Interesting that there are 2 different AWD systems.

Yes.  I wonder what the difference is, and whether the more capable one will be available fin Europe.

[philip42h]

37 minutes ago, IanML said:

Yes.  I wonder what the difference is, and whether the more capable one will be available fin Europe.

I think, maybe about a 10% chance of my being correct, that Toyota offer both hybrid and non-hybrid petrol models in the US. And while the hybrid has an electric motor rear drive, the pure petrol has a "traditional" all wheel drive system ...

[Heidfirst]

5 hours ago, philip42h said:

I think, maybe about a 10% chance of my being correct, that Toyota offer both hybrid and non-hybrid petrol models in the US.

They definitely do. However, the article says that the system varies by trim level & not by power train.

[ChrisJohn]

IanML stated "The site suggests that hybrid 4WD gives 3.4 mpg less than 2WD" .  I would question this as what the figures actually show for the FWD version is a range of 49.5 to 51.3 and for the AWD 47.8 - 48.7. I would suggest that when the more detailed figures are available we will find that the 51.3 for the FWD option only applies to the Icon which has 17" wheels. From past experience with the Auris, when on 18" wheels the MPG will be less.  This means that the difference between FWD and AWD of the same trim and accessories is likely to be smaller than the 3.4 figure mentioned previously.

It is perhaps interesting to note that when Toyota issued the pre-launch brochure (which is the only one still available online on the Toyota UK website) they quoted mpg figures that were presumably based on the old testing regime.  These were 65.7 for FWD and 64.2 AWD. They specifically stated 17" wheels in that even though there is no UK version of AWD with 17" wheels.  We all know that these figures would never have been achievable in the real world. 

I have been running the series IV for the last 5 years (Petrol AWD CVT) and the mpg claimed for that in the original brochure was 39.2. Over some 30,000+ miles I have actually achieved 34.7 (i.e actual measurements, not onboard computer figures).  Mainly Scottish rural roads with occasional trip south of the border on motorways.  That's 88% of the claimed figure.  I currently have the AWD version of series V on order and shall be disappointed if I don't get better than 45 mpg.   

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, ChrisJohn said:

....  I currently have the AWD version of series V on order and shall be disappointed if I don't get better than 45 mpg.   

Well there you go - last time I looked you couldn't even build and price the AWD version! (Yes, you can now.) I enquired at my local dealer on Thursday last when they expected to have a demonstrator in and they just didn't know - April or May they thought ...

Do you have a delivery date? Do let us know what you think of it when it arrives ... 🙂

[ChrisJohn]

13 minutes ago, philip42h said:

Well there you go - last time I looked you couldn't even build and price the AWD version! (Yes, you can now.) I enquired at my local dealer on Thursday last when they expected to have a demonstrator in and they just didn't know - April or May they thought ...

Do you have a delivery date? Do let us know what you think of it when it arrives ... 🙂

Strictly off topic, I know but . . .   the dealers have had full prices and specifications since early December.  The Toyota ordering system allowed my dealer to place an order on 7th December but without a specific delivery date other than "May".  Rumour has it that FWD demo cars will start appearing at some dealerships within the next few days. You will have noted that the European press launch took place in December in Spain which is why lots of reviews appeared around the same time. The press were able to drive both FWD and AWD versions. Whether these early ones come by sea or get wings I don't know.  

I am "RAV less" at the moment. My previous car was about to need money spent on it, new tyres, brake pads and discs etc. so I took the plunge as I had a good offer for it then. I am just hoping my other half doesn't realise that we really only need one car! 

[HSDish]

Tomorrow, at friday 8 feb. the new RAV4 HSD 2019 will reach (at least/last 🙂 the Swedish) Toyota Dealers.

Hopfully we'll soon get real fuel consumption info.

[ChrisJohn]

If anyone spots one in a dealer it would be good to hear about it here so we can know that there are at least some in the country. 

[HSDish]

Made a short test drive with new RAV4 2019 (my lokal dealers demo car) yesterday.

Nice car! 

Drove about 18km (11 miles I think) mostly highway at 120km/h (74.56 mph I think) speed and the car computer showed 8.0 l  (35.5 britt,mpg I think)

my Prius+ computer says 7.6 l ( about britt. 37 mpg) when I drive the same distance and at same speed

[ChrisJohn]

On 2/7/2019 at 9:03 PM, ChrisJohn said:

If anyone spots one in a dealer it would be good to hear about it here so we can know that there are at least some in the country. 

I'll answer my own question.  My local dealer (Perth, Scotland) now has a Tokyo Red Design spec FWD car in its showroom.  I had a good look at it yesterday and have to say that it looks very good. Whilst on paper it is only a few mm larger in length and width it actually looks a lot bigger. Maybe that's just because it was in the showroom?  This one is for showroom only at the moment and no test drives. They expect to have an Excel spec on the road for demos in the first week of March. 

Probably off topic but the time aspect makes me think.  How long is the shipping time from leaving the factory in Japan to arriving in the UK, clearing the importer's preparation process and delivering to the dealer? Does anyone know the rough timescales?   Do the first few cars for press review and initial showroom purposes get flown here?

 

[philip42h]

35 minutes ago, ChrisJohn said:

I'll answer my own question.  My local dealer (Perth, Scotland) now has a Tokyo Red Design spec FWD car in its showroom.  I had a good look at it yesterday and have to say that it looks very good. Whilst on paper it is only a few mm larger in length and width it actually looks a lot bigger. Maybe that's just because it was in the showroom?  This one is for showroom only at the moment and no test drives. They expect to have an Excel spec on the road for demos in the first week of March. 

Probably off topic but the time aspect makes me think.  How long is the shipping time from leaving the factory in Japan to arriving in the UK, clearing the importer's preparation process and delivering to the dealer? Does anyone know the rough timescales?   Do the first few cars for press review and initial showroom purposes get flown here?

 

I thought that it was supposed to be shorter that a 4.4? Or at least that's what I recall reading in one of the earlier announcements ... but checking you are quite correct: 30mm longer, 10mm wider and 15mm taller it would appear. But we really need to see the two parked side by side - things do look huge in the showroom.

Still no sign of demonstrators in my part of the world. Still not expecting to see AWDs before May. And I'd be pretty sure that they'd all come by sea ... Google suggests 6 to 8 weeks door to door plus paperwork time. I suspect that Toyota have the later pretty much off pat so, maybe, not too much to add ...

[ChrisJohn]

No, your memory is not wrong. We were told it was to be shorter than the 4.4.  Some of the press articles commented that Toyota had managed to increase the wheelbase length whilst reducing the overall length. This Autocar article states that the 2019 model is both shorter and lower:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-paris-motor-show/2019-toyota-rav4-prices-confirmed-fifth-generation-suv

If you compare the dimensions in the 4.4 brochure and on the website for the 2019 model then the new one is both longer, higher and wider so I am totally confused about the claims made in the pre-launch publicity. One has to assume that at least the manufacturer would measure on a like for like basis?  I have attached a page from the trade pre launch details that was published last November and this states quite explicitly that the overall height is 10mm lower whereas what we now see is 25mm higher.

 

 

Pages from NG RAV4 Follow-up Bulletin 27-11-18.pdf

[Heidfirst]

3 hours ago, ChrisJohn said:

Probably off topic but the time aspect makes me think.  How long is the shipping time from leaving the factory in Japan to arriving in the UK, clearing the importer's preparation process and delivering to the dealer? Does anyone know the rough timescales?   Do the first few cars for press review and initial showroom purposes get flown here?

according to a Facebook post by a dealer this week it's 2-3 months for a customer build to order but they expect that to shorten as production ramps up.

Helensburgh Toyota & Western (Dunfermline, Edinburgh etc.) have new RAV4s in showroom - I expect Arnold Clark too (it amazes me that AC seem so far behind in social media compared to other dealers).