Stop start

[VSD]

Guys.....I have a 1.2 Turbo model...

Lately I note that 'stop start' function is not working.

I see 'Battery charging' when stopping in traffic...

Any idea why?

[Heidfirst]

Hi Ivan, welcome to TOC 🙂

Stop start requires the Battery to be at a certain level of charge or it doesn't operate (given that you are seeing a "Battery charging" notification I imagine that yours is below the required threshold).

It also doesn't operate in isolation so it could be that the car's systems require that the engine should continue to run for some reason (e.g. heating or air con demand).

[VSD]

Hi Heidfirst :)

Thanks for your kind feedback.

Problem is, many times aircon is off.....still won't stop.....

 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Your owners manual should give information on why stop/start may not operate.

This may include the Battery not holding sufficient charge, heavy electrical load on the car (not only air con, but also may include heating, other electrical accessories, etc), ambient temperature being below the threshold for stop/start operation, etc.

[VSD]

Guys....called Toyota.

Shall be taking it to their garage for a Battery test......might be the case it's failing slowly.

Thanks for assisting!

Ivan

[mrpj]

I wouldn't expect it and be surprised if the Battery was "failing" in a 2016 car.

Probably not being charged sufficiently by not driving far or long enough. Also bear in mind that it takes more out of a Battery to start in colder weather and possibly more use of lights etc..

[VSD]

My thought exactly.....anyway.....let's get it checked & see what happens :)

[Catlover]

I bought a petrol car (not a Toyota) less then 3 years old in the August. I immediately noticed stop-start only worked about one in ten times. Contacted the dealer and they said “it’s normal, my car does the same”. My reply was “I don’t drive your car, I drive my car that I bought from you with money I worked had for”. They took the car in for an overnight stay during which they slow charged the Battery - apparently stop-start batteries have to be charged very slowly, something to do with the stop-start bits and bobs on the Battery. Result was it worked proper, but there are circumstances it won’t work, when still warming up, or when a number of electrics were being used ie lights, blower etc, and as the winter came it all got worse. In the end I got to think the system isn’t all that good and probably only there so the emissions during test would be less so tax bracket would be lower. Then of course there is extra wear on the starter motor and Battery. Now I have a Prius hybrid which turns off the engine when stationary anyway,and no starter motor to wear at all.

[tonybeau]

I have the 2017  Auris and 1.2 engine and I have the same problem.  The stop/start very rarely operates and I asked the Toyota garage to check this out when it was in for service.  They said it was operating normally.  I can go on a long run with no A/c or lights on and I nearly always get "Battery charging", perhaps it is a "feature" of the design.  I am not too worried about it apart from not working as expected as it saves wear on the starter motor and Battery.  I think the Battery is ok as it spins the starter motor quickly.

[eygo]

stop start is very hit and miss probably more miss

when i had a mercedes A class years ago

i was told it depended on loads of parameters some of them being

i.e.outside temp,engine temp demand on the electrics to mention a few

i think all the stars in the universe have to be aligned for the stop start to work perfectly.😉

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

An extract from the full owners manual detailing when the stop/start system may or may not operate:

Operating conditions

●The Stop & Start system is operational when all of the following conditions are met:

• Vehicles with a Multidrive: The brake pedal is being depressed firmly.

• Vehicles with a Multidrive: The shift lever is in a position other than R. • is off.

• The driver’s seat belt is fastened.

• The engine is adequately warmed up.

• The driver’s door is closed.

• Vehicles with a Multidrive: The accelerator pedal is not being depressed.

• Vehicles with a manual transmission: The clutch pedal is not being depressed.

• The outside temperature is -5°C (23°F) or higher.

• Vehicles with a manual transmission: The shift lever is in N.

• The hood is closed.

In the following situations the engine may not be stopped by the Stop & Start system. This is not a malfunction of the Stop & Start system.

• The air conditioning system is being used when the ambient temperature is high or low.

• The Battery is not sufficiently charged or is undergoing a periodic recharge.

• The brake booster vacuum is low.

• Vehicles with a Multidrive: The vehicle is stopped on a steep incline.

• The steering wheel is being operated.

• Due to traffic or other circumstances the vehicle is stopped repeatedly.

• The vehicle is being driven in a high altitude area.

• Engine coolant temperature or transmission fluid temperature is extremely low or high.

• The Battery fluid temperature is extremely low or high.

• The Battery was recently replaced or the battery terminals were recently disconnected.

• Vehicles with a power heater: The power heater is being used. 

[tonybeau]

None of the above are applicable in my case, I would like to hear other people's experience.

[Mooly]

I do longish runs and my Stop Start can go a whole journey and not kick in once, the next day it can operate every time you stop. There is no logic to how it behaves... yes the owners manual details all the conditions that need be met and yet after a good motorway run it still often fails to operate and then next time on a cool engine its working from the first quarter mile. The Battery is original and 9 yrs old now, however it has behaved more or less like this from new, in fact in the first week or so I genuinely thought there was an issue as it just didn't cut in at all some days.

Its a flawed system (imo) and the fuel savings are pretty miniscule in the scheme of the things. When you have the aircon on (which I leave on) then that limits the absolute maximum stop time to just 30 seconds or so.

If you look at the Battery terminals you will probably see a small contraption incorporated into the negative terminal clamp. This is an electronic monitoring system that records 24/7 any current flow either into or out of the Battery, the information being used to guestimate charge levels.

In my younger days I was a field service engineer and often did many calls in a small area, so lots of starter use on cars such as Escorts and Astra's and I don't think any of us had battery issues. Alternators on those old Escorts maxed out around 27 Amps which is puny compared to todays compact devices capable of generating high current at even low revs and providing as much as 70 or 90 Amps (and more). Also the starter churned for many many second more than a modern Auris which starts/restarts almost instantly.

Toyota play it safe, but imo too safe to the extent the system is pretty useless.

  

 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

I've had two Auris from new with stop/start, and, like Mooly says, the system doesn't operate as one may expect. No one is going to be able to say to you why your system operates in the way it does, as there are too many variables which may affect how and when it does operate.

[Mooly]

There was a question/comment in todays Honest John (Daily Telegraph) regarding Battery life on Stop/Start cars and one comment from HJ that caught my eye was him saying that the alternator (I presume under certain conditions) only charges when decelerating or breaking. 

I never heard of this technique although I could see how it could be easily implemented, for example if you can signal to the alternator to reduce its voltage then the Battery will supply the load current and the alternator will freely turn with little mechanical resistance. 

[nielshm]

Well, my Auris 1.2T with CVT works well with start/stop. Once the engine has heated up, not fully heated, the system works very well. I normally gets something like 12 minuttes per tank of fuel. If I do a lot of city driving, start/stop period is more than 20 minuttes. 

With the CVT, it"s easy to activate only by pressing the brakes. 

[tonybeau]

I have just got back from a 600 mile trip spread over 5 days.  During that time it was mainly motorway cruising with no lights and virtually no A/c.  The stop/start only happened twice during the latter part of the trip on minor roads.  When I got home it happened about 5 times doing short trips and then nothing.  Mine is a manual gearbox by the way.

[VSD]

Dear all,

As originator of this post, I can now revert with results, following my visit to local Toyota dealer.

They basically tested the Battery & result was 'green'.

They also drained the Battery & recharged it in full.

Upon getting it back, the stop start was working again......however the day after, it stopped working again!!

I rest my case..... :)

At least Battery is ok.....which was my main worry btw... 

[tonybeau]

That confirms my findings.  I wonder if they could be guilty of rigging the emissions test?  

[tonybeau]

You may be onto something Mooly, I have always tried to reduce the load on the Battery trying to get the stop/start to work.  For the last few days I have kept the air conditioning on to create a load and the stop/start works around 25% of the time.

[Heidfirst]

Bear in mind that if you have the 1.2T the system also takes the temperature of the turbo into account. 

[tonybeau]

You learn something new each day!  Mind you, the stop/start did not work on my car previously on short trips when there was no load on the Battery. One of the great mysteries of life.  

[Heidfirst]

5 hours ago, tonybeau said:

One of the great mysteries of life.  

Like the algorithm used by the Climate Control ... 😛

[Mooly]

Well on Saturday I replaced spark plugs and afterwards went for a test drive. No stop/start action at all, not that that is an issue.

Sunday and I did an ECU reset (following day before plug change) and during a following 75 minute drive the stop/start didn't cut in even once.

This morning it cut in every single time, I reckon perhaps seven or eight times, maybe more. This afternoon and the same, it worked every time right from the off.

So go figure... answers on a postcard 🙂

 

 

[tonybeau]

I am reliably informed, that the answer to life, universe and everything is 42