2018 Hybrid & 2017 Hybrid: driving & economy

[Berengaria]

A few months ago, I had the pleasure of driving a 2017 Yaris Hybrid (i.e. the last of the series 2) and achieved 64mpg without even trying on a 70 mile journey from the centre of one city to another. Did 70mph with the cruise control on, and the engine noise was low, with plenty of go in the engine. I also seem to recall it would tickle along at up to 30mph max on the electric motor. I think that car had 15" wheels.
 

I'm now driving a 2018 latest version with 16" wheels and I'm disappointed in comparison. Same journey and same driving style produces 'only' 54mpg. Car seems noisier and seemingly restrained on the motorway and not as defined. In town, the engine kicks in at 20mph, which isn't a great use for the economy, with the Battery discharging after about behalf a mile on electric from a nearly full charge.

Have Toyota changed the operating characteristics of the latest car? If so, it isn't as good as before I think.
 

[TonyHSD]

Hi, 

there are some other factors to consider., cold weather at the moment, if asphalt is wet, wind, larger tyres with a low profile, these hybrids are very sensitive towards all above and slight changes affect the fuel consumption, some powerful petrol or diesel cars doesn’t count that much as they have a lot more torque to help. Toyota hasn’t changed anything for sure. 54mpg at present is more than adequate fuel consumption imo. 

Regards 

[FROSTYBALLS]

2 hours ago, Berengaria said:

I'm now driving a 2018 latest version

Do you need to edit your profile to include the Yaris?

[Mike J.]

3 hours ago, Berengaria said:

In town, the engine kicks in at 20mph, which isn't a great use for the economy, with the battery discharging after about half a mile on electric from a nearly full charge.

If the drivetrain (incl. battery) is cold, the 20 mph limit kicks in. When the car is fully warm (incl. Battery!) the 30 mph limit will re-appear. Lower electric range will also appear with low (battery) temperatures. My average mpg in winter is 50 and 60 in summer. YMMV. The Battery temperature is visible using the Android hybrid assistant app.

App display

[Berengaria]

Quote

Do you need to edit your profile to include the Yaris?

By 'driving' the Yaris, this is only a temporary measure (hire car) after getting rid of my Avensis. Having the Yaris for a weekend has given me a better appreciation than any test drive could do.

Thanks everyone for the information. After a while of running the car (cabin well heated) it did eventually manage up to 30mph on electric power only.

Whilst averaging 52mpg overall across around 400 miles, a 70 mph cruise-controlled 110 mile motorway trip tonight resulted in 48mpg, which is the same as what I got from my Avenue V-Matic on the same trip. Considering that, and the high purchase price on the Yaris hybrid, I don't think it's good enough value when compared with an Aygo or Celerio for example in terms of economy and motorway cruising ability.

 

[Heidfirst]

29 minutes ago, Berengaria said:

Whilst averaging 52mpg overall across around 400 miles, a 70 mph cruise-controlled 110 mile motorway trip tonight resulted in 48mpg, which is the same as what I got from my Avenue V-Matic on the same trip. Considering that, and the high purchase price on the Yaris hybrid, I don't think it's good enough value when compared with an Aygo or Celerio for example in terms of economy and motorway cruising ability.

A driving profile of mostly high speed cruising is not where petrol hybrids are at their best as they will mostly be running as a normal ICE but carrying additional gubbins 😛 . Much better suited to a profile of largely urban useage but with enough mileage p.a. for the fuel savings over the years to offset the additional upfront cost - but you knew that already, I am sure.

[Eddie G]

Good points jack, my GR Yaris has 17 inch wheels and is getting 46 mpg at the moment on mainly short trips but it is winter time but did expect it to be more like your series 2 yaris as my EV light only comes on under 20 mph, guess will get the real benifits in the summer because it is more like a stop start system at the moment!. Good point about the 1lt engine especially in a Aygo you would get better MPG, giving the price difference over a hybrid the 1lt is the better option if your mainly after MPG for your money. 

[Berengaria]

Quote

Much better suited to a profile of largely urban useage but with enough mileage p.a. for the fuel savings over the years to offset the additional upfront cost - but you knew that already, I am sure.

That's true. Whilst it's a highly efficient vehicle, it relies on creeping around town on electric to help the mpg. The 1ltr 3 cylinder engines alternatives trounce the hybrid for overall mpg, they aren't as well finished and appointed inside as the Yaris. Cruise control missing from them as well.

My experience of the 2017 Icon spec last August doing 64mpg at 70mph (and seemingly being much quieter and refined than the 2018 one I drove) still marks it out as an efficient motorway cruiser. That's why I was disappointed with 48mpg.

EddieG above has noted the difference wheel size makes. I would have thought that a larger-wheeled version would be better for mpg than a 15" wheels version (one turn of a bigger wheel moves the car further forward than a smaller wheel).

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

7 minutes ago, Berengaria said:

The 1ltr 3 cylinder engines alternatives trounce the hybrid for overall mpg, they aren't as well finished and appointed inside as the Yaris. 

The Aygo is targeted towards a different market sector to the Yaris, so won't be as well finished and appointed. A better comparison would be with the 1 litre Yaris, which uses the same engine as the Aygo, and is almost as economical as the hybrid according to Honest John's Real MPG.

[Eddie G]

More power needed to drive the car through the air with bigger wheels i remember reading somewhere but size of tyre makes a difference, The Aygo I ltr has thin tyres and is around 860 kg, a Yaris 1 ltr around 1040 kg so mainly better MPG out the Aygo with it being lighter?

[Eddie G]

13 hours ago, Eddie G said:

Good points Jack, my GR Yaris has 17 inch wheels and is getting 46 mpg at the moment on mainly short trips but it is winter time but did expect it to be more like your series 2 yaris as my EV light only comes on under 20 mph, guess will get the real benifits in the summer because it is more like a stop start system at the moment!. Good point about the 1ltr engine especially in a Aygo you would get better MPG, giving the price difference over a hybrid the 1ltr is the better option if your mainly after MPG for your money. 

 

[Eddie G]

Depends on your type of driving, hilly areas and people in car. I love the 1.5 ltr engine so with the Hybrid is a good mix, the Aygo is not as good a quality as a Yaris in my opinion and a 1 ltr engine in a Yaris might feel sluggish on hills and getting up to speed with it being more heavy then a Aygo. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Kerb weight of the Aygo varies between 840-910kg, whereas the kerb weight of the Yaris 1 litre varies between 975 and 1040kg, depending on spec. So the weight difference between the two is not as marked.

The Aygo is built for a different market sector to the Yaris, is physically smaller than the Yaris and won't be as well specified or finished.

[Eddie G]

Yeah not much difference in weight but enough along with wider tyres on the Yaris for less MPG over a Aygo? 

[PeteB]

1 hour ago, Berengaria said:

...EddieG above has noted the difference wheel size makes. I would have thought that a larger-wheeled version would be better for mpg than a 15" wheels version (one turn of a bigger wheel moves the car further forward than a smaller wheel).

It might be different for the Yaris, but on other Toyota models that I'm familiar with (particularity all four generations of the Prius) the so-called larger wheels actually end up having an almost identical diameter and circumference at the outer edge of the tyre.  This is because the wheel size relates to the rim (Prius come in 15" and 17" options), but the tyres for the 17" rims are lower profile, and if you see them side by side you'll see cars with 17" wheels have about half as much rubber between the rim and road as the 15".  This is why the larger rims tend to give a poorer ride, and can suffer damage when hitting a particularity nasty pothole when the 15" might not.

The reason the cars with 'bigger' wheels tend to have worse mpg and CO2 figures is that they are wider, which means they produce more drag - quite a lot more in the case of the current Prius where the drag factor goes from CD 0.24 for 15" wheeled cars to 0.26 for those with 17" rims - a bigger difference than you might guess from the small number change.  That also explains why cars with the bigger rims often have poorer turning circles and make more road noise, not to mention be considerably more expensive to replace.

[Berengaria]

I've now settled my own argument. Had occasion to drive the 'old' 17-plate series 2 'Icon' version again today on a 65 mile round trip from a major city centre to a nearby town. Majority of journey on motorway at 70mph with cruise control on.

Managed 58.9 mpg without trying. Also, car much quieter than the newer version with the larger wheels I drove the other weekend.

Proof enough for me that the older version hybrid with the 15" wheels is the more economical car. The only think I prefer about the latest version is that you can view the Battery level within the Speedo binnacle whilst driving.

 

[Anthony Poli]

Having had 3 hybrids in the family over the last 3.5 years. I can say they all perform slightly different, it is how you drive them that will make a difference.
At the moment I am avoiding the cruise control and with the eco mode selected. My mpg is improving with the present car, compared to the previous one.
There is always pros and cons of the newer hybrids.
From my first one, trying to accelerate in ev was very slow, now it is better but not perfect and I would imagine the latest one would beat mine.

This is all just my personal opinion,


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