Corolla Hybrid: 1.8 vs 2.0?

[Nicolai]

Happy Easter, everyone,

To those of you who are buying or have bought the new Corolla, which engine did you choose. the extra cost of the 2.0 equals £4,000 in Denmark. I must admit that I felt the new 1.8 122 BHP was way more responsive than my own, old 136 BHP?

I've read that perhaps the 2.0 is a lot smoother and quieter (partly due to acoustic windscreen?

I feel my own 2013 136 BHP is very dull when accelerating in ECO mode whilst at the same time staying within the ECO band on the "hybrid meter". However, I have always driven the car in ECO mode to max economy. On the other hand, when I put my car in normal mode, I feel it is quite responsive, and with Power mode, I have all the power I have ever needed.

I felt like the 122 BHP in the Touring Sports Corolla and in ECO mode perhaps felt equally responsive to my own 136 in normal mode.

I'm a very easy (probably slow) driver so I have no doubt, the 1.8 would be enough. Then again, I like the punch form overtaking found in my fathers 150 BHP 1.4 TSI Touran.

On a 17.5 mile return trip (test drive, from dealer,) I average 73.4 mpg thinking about economy. On the trip out, I only got 50.3.

Which engine would you go for?

I have just read, Toyota plans to sell three fully EVs in Europe in 2021. As I will be keeping the car for a minimum of eight years, perhaps I should hold of. But the Corolla is really nice, indeed.

[HSDish]

On 4/22/2019 at 10:33 AM, Nicolai said:

Happy Easter, everyone,

To those of you who are buying or have bought the new Corolla, which engine did you choose. the extra cost of the 2.0 equals £4,000 in Denmark. I must admit that I felt the new 1.8 122 BHP was way more responsive than my own, old 136 BHP?

I've read that perhaps the 2.0 is a lot smoother and quieter (partly due to acoustic windscreen?

I feel my own 2013 136 BHP is very dull when accelerating in ECO mode whilst at the same time staying within the ECO band on the "hybrid meter". However, I have always driven the car in ECO mode to max economy. On the other hand, when I put my car in normal mode, I feel it is quite responsive, and with Power mode, I have all the power I have ever needed.

I felt like the 122 BHP in the Touring Sports Corolla and in ECO mode perhaps felt equally responsive to my own 136 in normal mode.

I'm a very easy (probably slow) driver so I have no doubt, the 1.8 would be enough. Then again, I like the punch form overtaking found in my fathers 150 BHP 1.4 TSI Touran.

On a 17.5 mile return trip (test drive, from dealer,) I average 73.4 mpg thinking about economy. On the trip out, I only got 50.3.

Which engine would you go for?

I have just read, Toyota plans to sell three fully EVs in Europe in 2021. As I will be keeping the car for a minimum of eight years, perhaps I should hold of. But the Corolla is really nice, indeed.

Hi. Now You made me curious 🙂

Ive just heard about C-HR / IZOA as pure EVs and Corolla as PHEV prodused and sold in China and maybe later in Europe

Have You heard about more specific Toyota EV models ? (or PHEV models)

[Nicolai]

No. I'm very interested as to when the Corolla can be bought as either plugin or EV in Denmark.

[Nicolai]

Surely, more people may have opinions on this matter?

[alan333]

IMHO it comes down to:

If you want max economy then buy the lesser powered version, drive it in eco mode and put up with it feeling a bit flat.  If you want more power drive the lesser version in normal or power mode, or buy the more powerful version and drive it in eco mode, and either way, be prepared to lose some mpg.

[Gerg]

      "Surely, more people may have opinions on this matter?"

So, dear readers, here's my ramblings for you:

With the new Corolla hybrid, is there an element of trying to widen the appeal to those who want a car to conform to 'normal' non-hybrid references?

I have only test driven a 1.8 model, that was a couple of months back.  As you will have seen, the gear stick is now more like a normal automatic and the electric parking brake has gone, replaced by a bowden cable operation (so, cost saving as well?).  During my drive, I didn't manage to get the charge/eco display showing, the salesman said it was still there, but neither of us could find it!  So I just had the tachometer displayed on my drive, which is arguably much less use in a hybrid.  Superficially then, it is a little bit more like a normal automatic.  The revised transmission and engine management have also lessened the famous hybrid 'mooing' sound that you get when you are making good progress - the hybrid is converging with ordinary cars!

Is the 2.0 trying to ease those who are used to turbodiesel-type torque to make a move into a hybrid?  The torque of any turbo car is quite addictive, and is available without any display of effort on the engine's or driver's part.  I suspect the 2.0 might fill some of that shortfall that those who are currently turbo-drivers find off putting.  Most of the visitors to this part of the forum are looking towards efficiency and economy above outright performance; the 1.8 is already a substantial improvement in general driveability over the last model, the 2.0 is possibly a solution to a question we weren't asking. 

The 'acoustic windscreen' was advertised as a feature on the 2007 Mondeo.  I don't know how it works, but I shall ask a windscreen fitter if they see any difference from an installing/design point of view next time I am passing one!  I would like to think it did make a difference, but I reckon you could achieve much more with £40 of Dynamat sound deadening and a few hours putting it in the bonnet and doors.

The suspension (on 17" wheels, iirc) was very effective at smothering the worst of our appalling roads, like the TNGA Prius 4 before it.  Just once I have seen some Toyota blurb about 'special valving' in the dampers of the TNGA chassis.  I wonder if this is the arrival of the Koni FSD dual-valve shocker design into a mainstream fitment?  It's certainly rides very well.  Apparently, that technolgy was invented by Monroe a long while back, and a Bilstein techie says that their performance dampers already have a very similar valve design to the Konis, but they just don't talk about it.  Impressive. 

Does the 2.0 have an uprated suspension over the 1.8?  If it does then that won't suit everyone!  Will the car still waft along?

On a lesser note, I see that from some angles it appears that the front seat coverings don't quite fit properly.  Nice to see a familiar design theme from the Auris carried across to the new model.

And finally, has anyone tried the horn on this slick, new motor? The one on our Auris sounds like it's been taken straight off a Yamaha FS1E, or like someone treading on a mouse.  I hope the new one is much better. 

 

[AndrueC]

I went with the 1.8 because I was interested in saving fuel think that 'a powerful hybrid' ought to be an oxymoron. The 1.8 has perfectly adequate performance for normal road use. What I've found is that at low speed where it's most useful the acceleration is very good. At higher speed it's less good but then if you are relying on good acceleration to perform an overtake you probably shouldn't be attempting the manoeuvre anyway. Overtaking in general rarely has much of a benefit on journey times so you might as well just go with the flow and save fuel.

Fit and ride seem to be very good. As for the horn - it sounds muted. I don't know if that's because of excellent sound proofing inside the cabin but I could barely hear it over the music. It sounded vaguely like a donkey actually 🙂

But I love the car. My only complaints so far:

* When starting I have to manually switch the audio on and select my iPod every time. Occasionally it will start the iPod playing but through the iPod's speaker (didn't even know it had one).

* The reported fuel consumption appears to be shockingly inaccurate. Pump to pump I'm seeing 53 mpg which isn't much better than I was getting from my Honda Jazz 1.3 CVT. But the dashboard is claiming high 60s and even low 70s. I've only filled it four times so far and from a different filling station each time. But still - 30% exaggeration is bad.

[Nicolai]

Hi Gerg,

Having test driven the 1.8 Corolla Touring Sports with the Danish "H3" trim level AND an additional "Smart package" these are my observations:

I agree with you that certain "hybrid elements" seem to have been given less of a priority than in the previous model(s). I like the look of the new gear lever, however, I dislike having to "click" my way through the gears. In that aspect, I much prefer the small, blue lever; easier and quicker to operate.

You should be able to the "Hybrid tacho" hidden within the slections availble in the display menu. The one I test drove didn't show it but had the HUD displaying the "Prius style" i.e. the horizontal bars".

I haven't tried the 2.0 but I agree with you that the 1.8 122 BHP is better than the one we both have in our cars (I see you have a 2013 Auris as well). the new 1.8 feels pounchier and more lively to me. Perhaps because the torque of the electric motor is added for longer(?) and at quick acceleration(?) than is the case in our 136 BHP 1.8?

I lovbe the turbo punch and torque of a 1.4 150 BHP TSI engine but the ultimately value economy over punch. If I need it, driving the 1.8 in Normal or power is plente punch for me. That way you have the option on regular eco driving and 70+ mpg on A roads or less mpg and more punch.

[Nicolai]

3 hours ago, AndrueC said:

The reported fuel consumption appears to be shockingly inaccurate. Pump to pump I'm seeing 53 mpg which isn't much better than I was getting from my Honda Jazz 1.3 CVT. But the dashboard is claiming high 60s and even low 70s. I've only filled it four times so far and from a different filling station each time. But still - 30% exaggeration is bad.

VERY BAD. Outrageous, actually! 😪

[Gerg]

I did get to drive a 2.0 Corolla Sports Touring in Design trim (one down from top level) today for about 40 minutes.  This was mostly urban driving for about 17 miles in total, the car had covered 2600 miles.

The performance was much like the bhp figures suggest, a big lift in power - this car would just start to struggle for grip at low speeds on a wide throttle, this was on 225/45 x 17 tyres on a very slightly damp (but good) surface.  I don't think this car with this engine will come on narrower tyres, with good reason.

As the engine revs increased the power delivery was not so linear as you have come to expect in a hybrid; there is an element of coming 'on cam', making the power surge at higher revs with a wide throttle, I don't notice this at all on the 1.8.  With time you would become accustomed to this.  I wonder if the different balance between electric and petrol power prevents the electric assistance from being so meaningful at higher revs, so a 'normal' petrol engine power delivery is what you notice?  Or maybe I'm not used to having this much power in this type of car...

In an urban situation the extra urge did not have much purpose, but I can see it being very useful at faster, motorway-type speeds (I didn't try the car on any fast roads, unfortunately).

I found the eco/charge gauge!  It is very clear, but small, nestling in the middle of the dials.  Not an at-a-glance display for me, the old needle/gauge is about 5 times bigger.

I agree about the new gear lever, I prefer the old one, especially when parking etc.  And some engine vibration does get through to the lever at slightly higher revs (down the bowden cable?), not enough to be a problem, but my fingers naturally came to rest on this lever.

There was a low-pitched boom on rough surfaced roads which was at odds with the low levels of noise generally.  I really don't like low-pitched noise, I think this was no better than our Auris hatch on 17" wheels.  But suspension noise was very low indeed.  I don't remember it making the usual hybrid 'mooing' sound under spirited acceleration, if it did then you quite quickly got to the speed you wanted, so backed off the throttle anyway.

Over speed bumps it was evident that the car rocked much more than the hatchback, perhaps due to the rear overhang on the estate.

I was pleasantly surprised how much I didn't mind getting back into the Auris, at least until I got onto quicker roads.  

A lot of the above could change with familiarity and/or a better night's sleep.

 

[TonyHSD]

Hi all,

does anyone knows if the new 2.0 hybrid Corolla has the actual first gear like the 2.0 petrol version sold in US for example? Very interesting indeed what are all the differences between both drivetrains in terms of long term reliability, the 1.8 version well known and proven to be very good, but nothing about 2.0 hybrid yet.  This is going to be my first and biggest question that will push me towards one or the other when making a purchase. 

[AndrueC]

5 hours ago, Nicolai said:

VERY BAD. Outrageous, actually! 😪

Well I just filled up again and this time it claimed 58.9 but was actually 54.3 so not as bad an exaggeration and at this time of year quite good. Probably better than I'd have got with the Jazz.

[AndrueC]

4 hours ago, Gerg said:

As the engine revs increased the power delivery was not so linear as you have come to expect in a hybrid; there is an element of coming 'on cam', making the power surge at higher revs with a wide throttle, I don't notice this at all on the 1.8.  With time you would become accustomed to this.  I wonder if the different balance between electric and petrol power prevents the electric assistance from being so meaningful at higher revs, so a 'normal' petrol engine power delivery is what you notice?  Or maybe I'm not used to having this much power in this type of car...

I've noticed that as well and I think you're right. At low speed the electric motors can do the bulk of the work and you get all that torque. At higher speeds it's mostly the ICE and a 1.8 running Atkinson cycle isn't all that impressive.

My previous car was a Jazz which switched to Atkinson mode at low RPMs and the difference was marked. I think the 1.8 Corolla hybrid can out accelerate the Jazz at low speed but at higher speed I think the Jazz' 1.3 operating in Otto mode is probably giving out almost as much power.

The ride is better than the Jazz - it feels like a larger car and handles bumps far better. However one thing I have noticed is the space. My last three cars have been Jazzes and despite being slightly smaller they had way more space inside. I would happily take four adults with me on a long journey in a Jazz but in a Corolla I'd be a concerned about those in the back as the leg room is poor.

Love the Corolla though 🙂

[Sidrat]

3 hours ago, AndrueC said:

Well I just filled up again and this time it claimed 58.9 but was actually 54.3 so not as bad an exaggeration and at this time of year quite good. Probably better than I'd have got with the Jazz.

Are you doing a proper brim to brim or just when the pump clicks off.  My current Auris Touring Sport Hybrid doing brim to brim I get a consistent 2 to 3 mpg less than the average mpg reads.

[AndrueC]

2 minutes ago, Sidrat said:

Are you doing a proper brim to brim or just when the pump clicks off.  My current Auris Touring Sport Hybrid doing brim to brim I get a consistent 2 to 3 mpg less than the average mpg reads.

Fill until it clicks then round up to the next litre. Was back at my normal filling station today but not my 'preferred' pump. I'm still hoping for 60 mpg but have long felt that my efficient driving style would mean few gains. Hybrid technology is mostly about reclaiming wasted energy and if you don't waste much in the first place there are limited gains. Helping the engine run at ideal RPMs would be useful but the CVT allows that anyway.

Right now my main concern is the crazy claimed MPG. I can accept a 10% improvement over my old Jazz but when the car is claiming 70 mpg and I'm calculating it as 53 mpg that's mad.

[Sidrat]

7 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

Fill until it clicks then round up to the next litre. Was back at my normal filling station today but not my 'preferred' pump. I'm still hoping for 60 mpg but have long felt that my efficient driving style would mean few gains. Hybrid technology is mostly about reclaiming wasted energy and if you don't waste much in the first place there are limited gains. Helping the engine run at ideal RPMs would be useful but the CVT allows that anyway.

Right now my main concern is the crazy claimed MPG. I can accept a 10% improvement over my old Jazz but when the car is claiming 70 mpg and I'm calculating it as 53 mpg that's mad.

Try filling to brim, record mileage, drive, fill to brim, record mileage, calculate.  I found it's the only real accurate way, pumps can click off at different times so you will not have an accurate fill amount.  By taking it to the brim you know exactly how much you have used.  Give it a try.

[Nicolai]

17 hours ago, AndrueC said:

I would happily take four adults with me on a long journey in a Jazz but in a Corolla I'd be a concerned about those in the back as the leg room is poor.

Love the Corolla though 🙂

The Jazz is an ingenious model as far as space goes. Is your Corolla a HB or TS?

[AndrueC]

6 hours ago, Nicolai said:

The Jazz is an ingenious model as far as space goes. Is your Corolla a HB or TS?

Excel HB.

[Nicolai]

18 hours ago, AndrueC said:

Excel HB.

Ah, I see. The TS has more rear space, although I wish it had even more.

[Nicolai]

Does anybody have an idea as to a realistic combined MPG for 2.0 vs 1.8?

[AndrueC]

Well based on what I'm seeing for the 1.8 (around 55mpg) I'd assume closer to 50 for the 2.0.

But a lot depends on how and where it's driven. I've always been an efficient driver (minimal use of brakes, lifting off the power well in advance of junctions or lights) and until now have always achieved or even exceeded official figures.

I have always wondered if my driving style would mean few benefits from a hybrid (because I just don't waste much energy in the first place so less to recover) and so far the gains seem fairly minimal. I'm getting better mpg than I got with the Jazz at this time of year but I was hoping to be averaging 60mpg. I know it's a slightly bigger car but it's not that much bigger. If I can average an annual mpg of 53 from a Jazz I'd hope for quite a bit better from a Corolla.

I still love the car though 🙂

[HSDish]

14 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

Well based on what I'm seeing for the 1.8 (around 55mpg) I'd assume closer to 50 for the 2.0.

But a lot depends on how and where it's driven. I've always been an efficient driver (minimal use of brakes, lifting off the power well in advance of junctions or lights) and until now have always achieved or even exceeded official figures.

I have always wondered if my driving style would mean few benefits from a hybrid (because I just don't waste much energy in the first place so less to recover) and so far the gains seem fairly minimal. I'm getting better mpg than I got with the Jazz at this time of year but I was hoping to be averaging 60mpg. I know it's a slightly bigger car but it's not that much bigger. If I can average an annual mpg of 53 from a Jazz I'd hope for quite a bit better from a Corolla.

I still love the car though 🙂

Maybe a bit OT, I apologice for that but...

Hows your exeperience of the accessibility in Corolla ( I think its rather low compared to Honda Jazz) now when youve driven it for some time.

I realy like our Auris TS HSD and I was very hopefull when I heard about the new Corolla but... Ive got some problem with my spine/back and I think our Auris (big difference compared to our Prius+ ) is a bit hard to get in and out from and the new Corolla is even 20 mm lower. 

[AndrueC]

It's fine getting in and out but I have noticed on very long journeys (a couple of hours or more) my left leg feels a bit numb after getting out. I never experienced that with the Jazz. I've tried raising the seat but aside from the difficulty of getting the steering wheel into position I can hut my head on the stupid grab handle above the window.

I would think that anyone with issues of mobility should be careful of the new Corolla.

[HSDish]

42 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

It's fine getting in and out but I have noticed on very long journeys (a couple of hours or more) my left leg feels a bit numb after getting out. I never experienced that with the Jazz. I've tried raising the seat but aside from the difficulty of getting the steering wheel into position I can hut my head on the stupid grab handle above the window.

I would think that anyone with issues of mobility should be careful of the new Corolla.

Thanks !

Unfortunately , I think/guess so to

[FROSTYBALLS]

Because there are so many variances with spine/back issues and what may or may not cause pain, etc, you really need to try the vehicle yourself.