That hoary old chestnut revisited

[fastbob72]

It's been a while since I last posted and I'm still going ahead with my T22 2ZZ-GE 6-speed build but it's been on hold since febuary due to lack of funds.Had to buy a new block,inlet cam,full rocker gear,a number of valves etc,etc,etc.My focus has been on my impending MOT as if she fails that then I won't have the T22 component of my project and it's kind of integeral.Rear brakes,miscellaneous annoying glitches,corroded outer sills near the rear arches both sides - I have to admit that that was the thing that concerned me most of all because in my experience you cut away the rotten outer sills only to find even more corroded inner sills.I am extremely happy to report that in this case my inners are 100% rust free with not even surface rust to be found.Due to the various problems needed attended to and a 55 hour + working week right now the 2ZZ has taken a back seat but I thought I'd address that first of all incase it was assumed I wasn't bringing it up because I wasn't prepared to admit to failure publicly.....that may well yet happen as it appears more complex than it seemed when just existing in my mind lol.

No,this post is all about Konrad's favourite engine (I couldn't resist that one lol) my 187,000 mile 1ZZ-FE.True to form yet also perplexingly it is using oil.In any other engine I've had before I came across the vvt-i it would be a significant and even horrifying amount but after a number of years of living with it it's barely even noteworthy,I'm going through nearly 2 pints/1 litre of oil anywhere between 1500-2000 miles depending on my right foot and how far I go into the rev range.

Well,the 1ZZ is notorious you may say,the very first thing you associate the pre 2005 1.6 and 1.8 vvt-is with is drinking oil like it's going out of fashion and you would be right to say so.It's become legendary for going through oil frighteningly rapidly so perplexing.Why?

I've been arguing for some time that the claim it uses or burns through it's oil are perhaps often a case of seeing what you expect to see.It's got this reputation,it's going through it's lubricant in a hurry therefore it's burning it just like everybody says it will.Yet. If I remove my plugs there are no signs of oil on them,to quote the Stranglers they're Golden Brown.Well,sandy brown like every Haynes manual says they should be if healthy,The tailpipe isn't soaked in oil.My 02 sensors,all 3 of them aren't being upset by all that burnt oil coming down the exhaust pipe.Also,when Maplins had they're closing down sale,a particular shame if you ask me,I bought one of those telescopic gizmos with the camera on the end that are ideal for threading down a spark plug hole to examine the combustion chambers and to my surprise they looked pretty clean for an engine with 187,000 miles on it and especially for an oil burner.

So logically what this tells me is my missing oil isn't being burned or the majority isn't,some will be obviously like all engines including 7A-FE's.Put it this way I've owned several XR3i's and a mk2 XR2 so have had the pleasure of Ford's CVH engine more than once.Now they DO burn oil and the evidence is everywhere to be seen.In fact,I associate the smell of an oil burning engine with XRs they're that bad once they pile on the miles.A bit off topic but I have to counter that with stating I also owned a mk3 RS1600i with a much better version of the CVH and the difference is so stark it has to experienced to be believed.It's honestly a fact,there is a good CVH engine out there but only in the RS1600i - which is also one of Ford's best cars ever along with the Sapphire RS Cosworth,Mk1 XR2 and Capri 2.0S and 3.0S.Anyway,I know an oily old engine when I smell one and mine isn't like that.

Yet there's no signs at all that it's leaking oil either.I've yet to find the smallest patch of oil left on the ground despite owning it some 5 or 6 years now possibly 7.So where the hell is it going,

Now,as a matter of course I always remove that black cladding from the underside of the bonnet every car I've owned as it absorbs heat whilst a polished up underside of the bonnet is a far better sight especially when I've cleaned and polished all the body coloured metal in the engine bay.What I've noticed for some time is that the silver body coloured metal becomes stained with what looks like oil vapour.Imagine someone smoking 100 fags a day then blowing the smoke towards the window,If you can picture how covered in a film of tar that window would become then that's how my engine bays looks despite cleaning it all off regularly.

Ok,this is interesting as it suggests that I've got crankcase breather issues or a knackered PCV.I removed the PCV a long time back and tested it in the fashion that every Haynes and countless web articles tell you to.Shake it and if you can hear it rattle it's ok.There's very little to go wrong.if you hear the pintle valve rattling then you're golden.I've checked it any amount of times as well as all the hoses,outlets etc in the breathers and never found anything amiss yet excessive oil vapour strongly suggests a breather issue.What tends to happen is the PCV becomes stuck and unable to open up fully the crankcase becomes over pressured and forces the gases out of any badly sealed gasket it can fiind,often the rocker cover or timing cover gaskets being the typical suspects.

Anyway,stubbornly I've always suspected my PCV is one of the main factors behind my oil use/loss despite the tried and tested method suggests it's in perfect working order.Then a few weeks back I was browsing on eBay and seen PCVs for the 1ZZ-FE on sale for a staggering £9.Unforetunately I'm a smoker still and that's the same price as 20 cigarettes.What the hell.just buy a new one and if it doesn't do anything at all I've not exactly broke the bank and I'll learn something at the very least even if it's simply that you're wrong the PCV is fine.

I ordered it from eBay,interestingly the same night I ordered a new fancy MIG welder from Amazon.The welder was here,the top of Scotland mind you,in less than 48 hours while it took over 2 weeks to recieve the valve but get it eventually I did.I love all those sellers on eBay because invariably they all say free postage on mainland UK except the Highlands of Scotland yet I'm pretty sure we are still connected to the rest of the UK landmass,there's no wide body of water south of Perth that you need to get a ferry or flight to travel south but hey ho.

It took perhaps 2 or 3 minutes to change the valve,the most time consuming and tricky part being locating where I'd left my 22mm spanner (or was it a 19mm I can't remember now,that's terrible lol).

I can reliably report in the month since changing it that my oil consumption has reduced dramatically and within days my avg mpg went from mid 37's to just over 41 mpg over all driving conditions.Beforehand I tended to drive in a way to try and maintain that 37ish mpg yet since I changed the valve my right foot has become so much heavier but is up at 41 mpg.I must admit I wasn't anticipating any reduction in fuel consumption although if I'd thought about it it does follow that fuel usage would improve even so who'd have expected such a rapid and dramatic improvement.Of course,you always have to keep in mind correlation doesn't necessaryily proove causation so can I say definitively that's the direct result of changing the PCV obviously not but considering nothing else whatsoever was changed except this one specific variable it really does appear to be the cause.Taken along with the reduced oil use which if I wasn't directly expecting I was strongly hoping for.

It all depended on whether contrary to recieved wisdom there was some issue with my PCV despite the rattle being taken as proof the valve is working properly.In my mind,it was quite possible that the spring that would normally keep the valve in the closed position until crankcase pressure overcomes the spring tension to open it and allow the gases to flow through to the throttlebody could have become weak possibly unable to keep the valve closed at all or at least weak enough that it took much less pressure to open it up.If that was the case it would still rattle once removed and shaken to test it.How would you test for a weak spring - well if you have a flow bench or bicycle pump perhaps lol.

Amyway,I thought it was interesting enough to make it worth a mention and I've never needed an excuse to defend the reputation of the 1ZZ-FE engine especially against all you cynical devoted 7A people lol.Plus it's always good when you have a hunch about the cause of something even when the professionals say that there's no problem.It's great to be shown to be right and is the exception not the rule so I have to glory in it when I can lol.

Bob. 😁😁😁

Edited April 27, 2019 by fastbob72
grammar

[Konrad C]

Hi Bob. Entertaining post. 
First let me say that I have a new favourite engine - 2ZR-FAE. Not perfect, but does the job. I actually think the 1ZZ engine is a good engine after the updates. My friend had a 2007/8 Avensis estate and it was great until a crash (other drivers fault) wrote it off. I have another friend who just bought a 2002 Celica, even though I warned him about the 1ZZ oil consumption issue. He said his heart ruled his head!    He told me read up on Celicas and a mechanic who knows the engines, told him to use the correct grade fully synthetic oil, and even suggested an oil flush to help clear the oil channels, in the hope of reducing the oil consumption. He is now discovering how much oil the Celica is using. I wish he used the knowledge he had and bought a later car or even a 190T (2ZZ  I might ask him for an update.
I see a few T22's on the road down here, though not sure what engines the face lifts are using.

Bob, it's good to hear from you, even though you are busy.   

[fastbob72]

Thanks Konrad,I've just been checking out the 2ZR-FAE and it sounds interesting.Have heard of 'Valvematic' but had a quick look at it in the past so be good to go back and investigate how it works properly.Very few engines are perfect,for sure except the 20XE (Vauxhall/GM Redtop) and Cosworth YBB found in all your RS Cosworth Sierras,the Vauxhall XE was designed by Cosworth aswell so that probably explains everything lol.

I think your friend made the wrong choice with the 2002 1ZZ-FE Celica because the chances of it having it's nuts thrashed off for most of it's life are so much higher than in the case of an Avensis but I cannot fault him for making heart over head choices when it comes to cars,that's why I've owned many of the cars I always wanted Sapphire Cosworth,RS1600i,Cavalier SRi130,GSi2000,SRi6v,mk2 GTE 16v,2,8 Capri & 3.0S ,2,0S,mk1 XR2 and so on with the exception of an RS2000 mk2 and Manta GT/E but there's still time lol.Those choices have always cost me much more than is sensible and caused all kinds of headaches but worth it to me 🙂

As for oil the mechanic is absolutely correct,fully syntheti but the correct grade also.As mine wqs going through it quite rapidly I long since stopped buying Magnatec or some other such all singing and dancing 'quality' oil and have used Tesco fully synthetic instead.At £20 for 4 litres it at least isn't costing an arm and a leg while clearly being up to the task.You can't buy a specifically Toyota mix but they sell an Audi/Peugeot one,Vauxhall and something else compatible whilst the Ford grade is the correct one for the 1ZZ-FE.Keeping it topped up all the time plus a complete change of oil and filter every 3000-3500 miles has kept my motor running for nearly the last 75,000 miles.I say nearly not because the engines worn but it's nearly but not quite 75,000 i've done since I got it lol.

It seems though from what I've read the 2ZZs can have oil issues of their own also.The Celica I went down to Edinburgh to buy had 185,000ish miles too.The lad was busy telling me all about the things he'd had done;grooved/drilled discs,dropped 30mm alll round,KN induction,a fancy cat back exhaust as well as being quite confused when I didn't ask a host of questions or seem particularly interested.He didn't know I wanted it to strip the good stuff from then scrap the rest.It became clear the guy had real affection for the car so I didn't have the heart to tell him,

Disturbingly enough though when I sked how it was for oil consumption he looked surprised and stated 'funny,another guy asked me that too' then went on to proudly proclaim he hadn't needed to put it any oil for the last 2 years but there was a jug of old engine oil in the boot just incase.I  should have walked away because I discovered nce I got outside the city and found some services to pull into there wasn't enough to make the minimum mark and the can old oit in the boot had about a coke cansworth left.I had always intended to strip the engine and rebuild it so as long as it got me back.Here's where some more in depth research would have helped because it turns out that the MMC coating on the cylinder bores means it can't be honed or rebored and if it's scratched or the coating had worn through then it's total scrap. I found that the cam lobes and rockers on the inlet side were all worn flat aswell.

So all new rocker gear,new inlet cam,a new short block aswell were all expenses I hadn't factored in.So being fixated on the end goal or letting your heart rule your head so often comes with a high price yet after 25 years of making these mistakes I still make them.I cannot find fault with your friend but again I wouldn't have gone with the 1ZZ-FE Celica due to the way it's probably been driven for the last 16-17 years.Then again there are precious little outward signs that it's an oil guzzler.With mine the plugs are clean,the O2 sensors functioning,no oil staining on the tailpipe.Nothing that could warn you of it's lust for oil when you go out and buy a 2nd hand one,Even a compressiom test would inspire confidence rather than be a warning,Again,it's an enigma in a lot of ways as all the classic signs aren't there yet it's going somewhere.I've significantly improved the consumption with mine by changing the PCV plus I've always suspected it's leaking near the chain tensioner but is not visible as it's behind the timing chain cover but almost always the back driverside corner by the master cylinder/power steering pump is always thick with old oil on many Avensis's I've looked at so that's the other area where it looses oil,IMO.

I'd definitely advise your friend to check that area plus clean out all the breather hoses,throttle body,outlets in the rocker/cam cover plus for just £9 fit an new PCV whether you believe it to be working or not.Plus always,always,always use the right grade of fully synthetic oil - 5W30.I can't remember the emmisions code/requirement off hand but I'll look at the unoped 4 litres in my boot and come back an edit this to add it in.That oil has been there for 4 weeks unopened which is so hard to believe after 70 odd thousand miles of oil issues so I'd suggest to him it's worth trying,what's he got to lose by trying it,

When you say you see few T22s is the facelifted T22s you are unsure of the engines,T25s or facelifted Celicas.Facelifted T22s had the 1.6 and 1,8 vvt-i engine although the 1.8,like mine has the 127bhp version of the 1ZZ-FE whereas the Celica has the 143bhp version.The only physical difference I could find between them being the Avensis has 2 precats in the exhaust manifold with 2 pre cat 02 sensors and one downstream whereas the Celica has a more conventional 4 to 1 style exhaust manifold with an 02 either side of the cat.The valve timing/phaser is exactly the same as are the cylinders,valves,compression ratio etc though I imagine the ECU is programmed slightly differently to suit the Celicas more performance orientated image.Also the T22s used the 2,0 vvt-i that is not a ZZ motor and apparently has none of the issues that plagued the 1ZZ and 3ZZ.Obviously there was a diesel too but I don't know anything about them except it's the D4E (i think lol) I know my old man had an 04 Rav4 with that engine then the harmonically balanced flywheel went on it which is common I hear with that engine.T25s have the same engines as far as I know but I'm not sure if the Celica ever had a change from the 1ZZ and 2ZZ when facelifted.

Funny enough,a silver 2002 T22 Avensis pulled into my work today,in fact the same one that's in the photos I posted recently to the Avensis Photo thread.I can think of at least 2 more Silver ones near here plus a metallic Blue one.I regularly see 2 pre facelifted T22s around Wick and Thrumster aswell so they're still plodding on.All the write ups suggest that although good it wasn't as indestructable as the Carina E it replaced but there's still many a 20 year old Avensis on the road and these aren't restored modern classics or the kind of car that people took to their hearts but day in day out workhorses that keep on going,I'm quite shocked at how much some are asking on eBay for a T22 in decent condition with many going for over £2000 or more.

It's that unloved,overlooked attitude towards the T22 that endears me to mine plus with the volume of bad press you read online about the vvt-i versions just makes it seem like the honest underdog that was badly underestimated.See,there's another bad viewpoint towards cars,anthropomorphisising them.I'm a lost cause lol

[Garth-1]

My T25 is on its second 1ZZ-FE engine.  When it belonged to my daughter-in-law it drank oil, ran out of oil and blew apart.  I bought the car, replaced the engine (*) with one that had done about 60K miles.  It's now done 90K miles and uses no oil whatsoever.  I would go so far as to say its the best 4-cylinder engine I've had in any of my cars.

(*) Recommendation:- Nippon Auto Spares, Derby.  www.nipponautospares.com

[Konrad C]

15 hours ago, Garth-1 said:

My T25 is on its second 1ZZ-FE engine.  When it belonged to my daughter-in-law it drank oil, ran out of oil and blew apart.  I bought the car, replaced the engine (*) with one that had done about 60K miles.  It's now done 90K miles and uses no oil whatsoever.  I would go so far as to say its the best 4-cylinder engine I've had in any of my cars.

(*) Recommendation:- Nippon Auto Spares, Derby.  www.nipponautospares.com

It sounds likes your replacement engine is the revised version, which I keep telling about - no oil burning/high consumption. I am sure there are a few T22/T25 and Celicas, with second hand replacement engines from later Avensis.    

[Konrad C]

Bob, you mentioned Opel Manta GTE. My late friend who passed away 9 years ago, own a silver hatchback version. It only had one weakness, noisy differential. It had very tall gearing too! I had either been in or driven some of the cars you mentioned. The Vauxhalls were easy to work on, but seem to need drive shaft gator boots. Changed them on on most cars, except Toyota. They seem to last long. I did Vauxhall cambelts/water pumps. 

What I mean by seeing T22/T25, some cars might be using other engines like diesel or the 2.0l 1AZ petrol engine. There is also the rare 2.4l engine in the pre facelift T25.  

My friend with the Celica messaged me yesterday, and said the oil consumption has reduced since the oil flush and change. He has not said how much of an improvement though! He also said he triggered the EML/CEL. He was going to get it checked and was thinking about buying a diagnostic scanner. I told him that he could remove the EFI fuse to reset the EML to see if the fault persists. I sent him a diagram and links to the fuse location, and he pulled the fuse. I told him to drive the car at least 5 miles to relearn the settings as the car was running rough. He later said the engine had settled down. He has just changed the spark plugs. The car had not been use for a while, so he is going through some of the things that need doing. Basically his little project.
Bob I hope pour project progresses.