Electric vehicle recharging - the way to the future?

[Catlover]

How big are batteries on pure electric cars? How heavy are they? 

I seen videos of people taking a Prius HV Battery out to replace a cell, that’s quiet big but manageable for an able bodied person.

[alan333]

No idea but I wasn't really suggesting to swap batteries over manually.  I'd like to think it'd be possible to have an attendant operating a suitable fork truck type machine, or some sort of bays you would drive into which swapped it over mechanically or something.

[PeteB]

I had a test drive in a BMW i3 a few years ago - the whole floorpan was the Battery!  Teslas are the same, and i think some other EVs are too.

[Mick F]

In the future, personal car ownership will be dead.  You will plug one car in, and take another. Very much like Boris Bikes in London.  Register with them, take one, use it, and drop it off somewhere else.

Can't see it happening ever, not if round here out in the sticks is anything to go by.  I reckon I've seen three EVs in total ever, and not seen one for the whole of this year so far.  They are so unusual as to be a complete rarity.

Mick.

[PeteB]

Until 3-4 years ago I saw very few EVs where I live, on the Norfolk Coast by the Suffolk border.  These days, however, I see at least 2 or 3 every day, often more.  A couple of Team as a week now, a few BMW i3s, a few Zoes, but mostly Nissan Leafs.  Even the odd Twizzy now and again - and they are odd with a pair of tandem seats, no windows and partial doors.

I see loads of Outlander PHEVs, and would have liked one myself if they only had modern instruments, a spare wheel and a choice of interior trim that wasn't all black.

[PeteB]

Just in case it's not obvious to all, somehow TESLAs became "Team as" above.

[I'm sure at one time we could edit our own posts for mush longer!]   -  mods?

[Mick F]

I think it's an automatic thing.

The other day, I was referring to the verb "to !Removed!" with respect to regeneration and braking, and it got modded.  The word was retarding without the -ing on the end.

Mick.

[Mick F]

See?  It's just happened again.  The word is offensive in the USA referring to someone who is backward.  The auto system is probably American and it doesn't seem to do it in context.

Sorry, this is well off topic!!!!! 😀

Mick.

[Catlover]

Retarded and Tesla’,  !Removed!,    just trying. 

[Catlover]

So retarded and Tesla’s seem ok but not re tard. 

[PeteB]

13 minutes ago, Catlover said:

So retarded and Tesla’s seem ok but not re tard. 

I think this time it was finger trouble on my part!  😁

[Ancient Nerd]

4 hours ago, Mick F said:

I think it's an automatic thing.

The other day, I was referring to the verb "to !Removed!" with respect to regeneration and braking, and it got modded.  The word was retarding without the -ing on the end.

Mick.

At least it is restricted to whole words. The forum of an airline site I used a lot, a few years ago,  caused real problems to a regular from S$%&^(*)Ihorpe. 

Edit: Apparently he would have had problems on this site too. 

Edited July 7, 2019 by Ancient Nerd
Add explanation of system edit

[alan333]

The name for a long black estate sort of car in which one would take their last journey in life also isn't liked.  I think it's because 4 letters within the word spell a rude word for bum.  

[Mick F]

39 minutes ago, alan333 said:

The name for a long black estate sort of car in which one would take their last journey in life also isn't liked.  I think it's because 4 letters within the word spell a rude word for bum.  

How sad.

What about !Removed!?

I see it's removed too.  We had a female dog.  Can we call it a !Removed!?

Mick.

[Mick F]

What a sad state of affairs, when you can't refer to a female dog or a bucket for rum in the Royal Navy ............ of which I was a member for nearly 30years.

Mick.

[PeteB]

41 minutes ago, alan333 said:

The name for a long black estate sort of car in which one would take their last journey in life also isn't liked.  I think it's because 4 letters within the word spell a rude word for bum.  

Like when I've tried to discuss a "course" road surface - but spelt "coubik" correctly for the meaning, same result.

[Mick F]

One way of doing it, is to use an attachment.

Mick.

 

Very sorry, but this issue is a great way off topic.

[Mick F]

I expect to be moderated as this is too controversial for this forum.

I'm a moderator on a cycling website BTW, so I understand the issues with respect to automatic stuff.  https://forum.cyclinguk.org/ucp.php?mode=login

Mick.

[QuantumFireball]

On 7/4/2019 at 9:29 PM, toshtosh said:

I have a plug in Prius PHV and most of the public chargers I have seen are 240v only - And yes I know that many deliver more than the PHV can take, but future 80kWh BEVs will take 2 to 4 hours to give even 100 mile using all these 240 volt chargers can deliver, so my point on time taken to recharge a 80kWh car at current charge points (including home chargers) remain valid.

The slower chargers are intended to be "destination" chargers, so it's expected you'll be leaving the car there for potentially a few hours. For EV journeys exceeding your range you really need to be using rapid chargers, and this requires careful planning (with backup plans). The reality is most people aren't making such long journeys on a regular basis - the average commute in the UK is just under 9 miles (similar here in Ireland) which would mean even for an EV that's a few years old and nowhere near cutting edge (e.g. 24 kWh Nissan Leaf, ~80 miles range) you'd only need to charge about twice a week.

I know some EV owners who just rent an ICE if they're going to be doing some long journey which would be too difficult with an EV - not a great solution either, but with the savings they make on running costs it's quite affordable at least.

[Heidfirst]

it probably doesn't like S$%&^(*)Ihorpe either (but who does! 🤣).

Ooh, it really didn't like that! A large town ~25 miles to the east of Doncaster whose name starts with Scun.

[Mick F]

There's a village near here just over the border into Devon called Crapstone.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Crapstone,+Yelverton+PL20+7PH/@50.4919417,-4.1123731,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x486cf3049cbcefad:0x3a13875b0093bc09!8m2!3d50.491301!4d-4.112652

Mick.

[toshtosh]

This idea of exchange batteries was considered several years ago (by Nissan I think). It is similar to the way warehouses have kept electric fork lift trucks operating around the clock for many years.

The plan was you would drive into a bay with a pit. Your Battery would be dropped on a carrier and moved to the charging warehouse and a fully charged Battery lifted into place. The empty Battery would then be recharged for another vehicle.

I believe the costs and site logistics proved to be the reason it wasn't progressed, not least the electrical cabling capacity for charging many batteries at a time. In addition it would have needed a transfer station about every 10 miles or so (EV range was only 30 miles or so at that time).

So now to cover the whole UK (including the remote areas) with an exchange station every 10 miles would need about 2000 stations of varying size.

Also as more companies manufacture EVs with varying shaped and sized batteries the complications increase dramatically.

Also this could only work with a leased battery system but would you swap your brand new EV battery for ones with unknown age and therefore capacity?

Currently an EV battery with reasonable range e.g. Nissan Leaf weighs about 10Kg per kWh so a car with 200 miles range (40 kWh) has a battery that weighs between 250 and 500 Kg.

So whilst exchange stations are being considered for EVs I suspect the capital required to establish a substantial network would be prohibitive.

Cheers

Tony B

[toshtosh]

With Jaguar's latest news it now seems inevitable that BEVs will be the winner of our medium term motoring options.

There are many reports available online of the future public charging station requirements, but one I have just perused make the valid point that many potential owners of EVs are unable to charge because they live in properties with no access to a home charger - flats and terraced houses to name just 2. They will need a network of access points.

At the weekend we were in Bridlington, which has the grand total of 2 * 7kW public charging points in a local car park. A quick search of ZapMap revealed that one of the points (which are free to use) regularly has the same BEV parked there and plugged in for many hours. 

The same report suggests that about 30000 high speed public charge points will be needed for BEV use by 2030, despite the increased range and increase in home usage.

I wonder if now is the right time to invest in companies manufacturing the chargers?

Cheers

Tony B

[QuantumFireball]

1 hour ago, toshtosh said:

This idea of exchange batteries was considered several years ago (by Nissan I think). It is similar to the way warehouses have kept electric fork lift trucks operating around the clock for many years.

The plan was you would drive into a bay with a pit. Your battery would be dropped on a carrier and moved to the charging warehouse and a fully charged battery lifted into place. The empty battery would then be recharged for another vehicle.

I believe the costs and site logistics proved to be the reason it wasn't progressed, not least the electrical cabling capacity for charging many batteries at a time. In addition it would have needed a transfer station about every 10 miles or so (EV range was only 30 miles or so at that time).

The wear and tear of removing and inserting batteries is a problem too, considering the much larger size and weight compared to something like a forklift Battery. There is potential for dangerous shorts there. And having such access to the Battery would also be a significant compromise in the design of the car, e.g. it could lead to restricted boot access.

[Catlover]

Batteries will get smaller, charge times will decrease, new technology in the next 10 years will see lot more changes then over the last 10 years. Thats progress.