Are Manufacturers mpg figures possible?

[Catlover]

Manufacturers mpg have probably been pie in the sky for most of us, something just not attainable in real life.

We just been ln holiday last week in Gloucester and did the Cotswolds and Forest of Dean. Going down from Chester area we did M6/M5, but on the way home back to Chester area we never touched a MWay, we went through Tewksbury, Worcester, Kidderminster, Telford and home. Mostly A-roads, but some B and some unspecified lanes.  I took screen shots of what my Gen4 Prius dash was showing when I got home. What do you think.... are manufacturers figures attainable. OK, the true figures are likely to be different, maybe 5% less, but I think these are pretty impressive.

We went on the 16th June, 141 miles at 77.2 mpg, pleased at that. Some good figures during the week travelling about, uphill and down dale. Then coming home on Saturday 22nd June116 miles (remember no MWay so shorter) 88mpg, pretty amazed. However, if you look bottom right of screen, it shows the last 50 miles (we stopped in Telford for a comfort break) it shows 96.5 mpg. 

Had the car 11 months, not yet 3 year old, done total of 27,000 miles, so well loosen up, and you may recall when I purchased it end of last July, driving it back from dealer in Solihull, 100 miles, it recored 92.2 mpg, so its not a one off.

What you reckon?   

[PeteB]

I found the same on my last Gen 4 Prius.  On a perfect weather day, on a 120 mile each way cross country journey, with lucky traffic conditions too, I could get 84 on the display so about 80 in reality.  So far I've not done a full tank calculation, but my RAV4 is managing about 50 mpg after knocking off the customary 5%.  That's still way more than I got many years ago from a tiny, lightweight FIat 126 with a 2 cylinder 600cc 24hp lawnmower engine in the boot.  How technology has moved on!

Don't forget manufacturers can't publish their own figures, they have to be from Government approved tests.  The newest tests are designed to be more realistic, but are still likely to be the top end of what's achievable by 'average' users.

The problem is that even in the same location, drivers usage patterns are likely to be very different.  Imagine one owner, retired, does a half mile journey to a local shop every day and little else.  Each tankful will last a long time, but his mpg is likely to be dismal.  A neighbour with an identical car drives 40 miles each way to the office every day, gentle cross country in light traffic, will see significantly better mpg (but with more frequent visits to the petrol station!).

[Ten Ninety]

Manufacturers' figures are definitely attainable on individual journeys, in the right conditions and with the right driving style. Whether they are achievable as a long-term average is a different matter. I did manage to get within a whisker of the Gen3's offical figure (on 17s) over a year and 14,000 miles. However, my commute is hybrid-friendly and I do drive to maximise economy.

I am dismayed by the change to WLTP figures. I don't want to know how economical a car is when being driven by some ignorant leadfoot. I want to know how economical it could be when driven by someone who knows what they're doing, in favourable conditions, so I have a figure to aim for.

As an aside, I was reading one of the crappy motoring mags this week, can't remember which one - Autocar or What Car probably - and they had a head-to-head test of a second hand Prius Gen 4 against an Ioniq. The idiots doing the test managed to get just over 50mpg on the test from the Prius and high 40s from the Ioniq. How is it even possible to get figures that bad? They must have been literally pedal to the metal, everywhere. These muppets have absolutely no business writing about cars designed for economy when they haven't the first idea how to drive them in the manner intended.

[Chippy01]

1 hour ago, Ten Ninety said:

I want to know how economical it could be when driven by someone who knows what they're doing, in favourable conditions, so I have a figure to aim for.

The figure you aim for is your best one, and then try to beat it. 

All the so-called reviewers seem interested in is 0 - 60 figures, top speed and handling characteristics. Economy doesn't seem to come into it.

[TonyHSD]

Lol that’s impressive figures! I am currently getting 62mpg from Auris gen1  on mostly motorway journeys and very happy with. Sensible driving can get close to manufacturers numbers. I think many of them now claim more real consumption than in the past. 

[Catlover]

Tony, I sure you realise the manufacturers of cars don’t themselves make any claims.  All manufacturers have to submit their models for standardised testing. Y independent body. Problem was these tests were “so clinical” thefigures didn’t really represent real life driving. As Pete B alluded to a few posts ago, their is now a new testing procedure which brings things more realistic. Real life figures that joe public will achieve depends on how each member of the public drives their vehicle, light footed/heavy footed, and type terrain, Scottish highlands/Lincolnshire flatland etc. I am light footed but driving the Prius I have learnt that certain terrain is more suitable to obtaining better fuel consumption.

[wass]

"All the so-called reviewers seem interested in is 0 - 60 figures, top speed and handling characteristics. Economy doesn't seem to come into it" Most so called reviewers went to do a degree in media studies and really don't have a tube of glue about how to really drive well and what makes things tick.They don't have much of an idea about anything really they are only interested in writing/filming/recording/tweeting etc something they can pay the bills with. Watch Clarkson when it comes to doing something practical. He is your typical hack in terms of understanding. Sure, he knows how to press the loud pedal but that's not what getting the best out of a hybrid is about.

[kithmo]

What are the latest WLTP figures for the Gen 4 ?

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

The latest ones will be for the 2019 facelift

[Saxmaniac]

Not a prius but an auris. Overall including more motorway than local driving sensibly, actual measured several tanks 59 - 60. Display showing average 65. Local 10-15 mile runs display shows around 75, so short of manufacturers claims but still very good

[Catlover]

Hi Geoff, good results eh!  The wife has a 2010 Auris Hybrid. Best she can do in the summer is about 65mpg, but the average for summer is about 62-63 mpg. My Gen3 Prius over the 5,000 miles I had it was doing 66.6mpg on the day I swopped it for the Gen4 I have now.

Just been to my local recycle centre, about 15 mile return. Now this run is not what I would call a good one for getting the best from a Hybrid, but its showing a figure of 88 mpg. Temperature outside at the time was 19 degC, that helps.

[AndrueC]

Until I got my hybrid Corolla, I'd say absolutely yes. It is possible to achieve and even exceed those figures. I have on all the cars I've owned expect for my first one which was an Austin Mini and that engine drank almost as much oil as petrol and would cut out if you didn't keep the revs up while stopped when it got warm 🙂

There are a number of rules you need to follow:

* Minimise use of brakes. My instructor originally told me 'brakes are for stopping and correcting your mistakes'. If you are approaching something that you can't or shouldn't negotiate at your current speed (a bend, a junction, narrow road etc.) then lift off early.

* Use brisk, but not excessive acceleration to get to your target speed. ICE are most efficient around wide open throttle. Barely pushing the accelerator pedal is not an efficient way to accelerate. For petrol engines between 2,000 and 3,000 rpm is the way to go.

* On the subject of speed and acceleration. Never accelerate toward something that will require you to slow down. Don't floor the car between traffic lights or roundabouts. Brisk acceleration is the most efficient way to get up to speed on the open road but between junctions it isn't. This is because there's a difference between 'getting the most energy out of the fuel burnt' and 'burning more fuel than is required'.

My previous car was a Honda Jazz 1.3 CVT and I never saw less than 50 mpg (calculated pump to pump) even in winter. In summer it was more like 54 mpg. That's on a 12 mile commute including two miles of town driving at one end.

My Corolla hybrid is a slightly different story. I'm still getting very good figures for the body shape and size/performance of the vehicle (currently around 58 mpg) but I'm not matching what Toyota claim. I've also had one really strange result when the car dash claimed 64 mpg but my calculated value was only 54. That was back in April shortly after I'd picked the car up and after a long drive up the motorway, and some local driving around. At the end of the motorway journey (60 mph and cruise control all the way) it claimed 70 mpg. Whatever was going on that time has made me very sceptical about figures obtained solely from the car itself.

Maybe it's my driving style. The main benefit of hybrid technology is recovering wasted energy and I just don't waste very much. Yes, it will claim some back from coasting down hills and simply having the flexibility to run the ICE at different RPMs will be beneficial but I'd have thought I'd see 'typical' results rather than what seem to be lack lustre results. Then again, maybe most people are just going by what the dashboard says. If I did that I could claim never to get less than 60 mpg.

[Ten Ninety]

7 hours ago, AndrueC said:

My Corolla hybrid is a slightly different story. I'm still getting very good figures for the body shape and size/performance of the vehicle (currently around 58 mpg) but I'm not matching what Toyota claim. I've also had one really strange result when the car dash claimed 64 mpg but my calculated value was only 54. That was back in April shortly after I'd picked the car up and after a long drive up the motorway, and some local driving around. At the end of the motorway journey (60 mph and cruise control all the way) it claimed 70 mpg. Whatever was going on that time has made me very sceptical about figures obtained solely from the car itself.

Maybe it's my driving style. The main benefit of hybrid technology is recovering wasted energy and I just don't waste very much. Yes, it will claim some back from coasting down hills and simply having the flexibility to run the ICE at different RPMs will be beneficial but I'd have thought I'd see 'typical' results rather than what seem to be lack lustre results. Then again, maybe most people are just going by what the dashboard says. If I did that I could claim never to get less than 60 mpg.

The dashboard figures are not accurate (probably about 7-8% optimistic) but they are actually likely to be more consistent than your own measurements, unless you go to the same petrol station and use the same pump each time. There is huge variance between the point at which pumps 'cut off' and you only need to be on a slight slope to change the amount you put in by quite a margin. That will throw any 'brim to brim' calculations completely off. 

The driving techniques you describe will work perfectly to maximise economy in a hybrid. Regen is a benefit but you'll already be getting best use of it - on the move, it's actually better to coast (with slight pressure on the accelerator) where you can, rather than lift off completely. You're already avoiding the brakes and lifting off early, which means you're maximising the energy going back into the Battery rather than burning it off with the disks and pads. 

What shape and engine is your Corolla? You clearly know what you're doing when it comes to eco driving, but if you've got a 2.0 TS with 17" performance tyres on it, then a 'real' 58mpg on a 12 mile commute might be the best you can expect. 

[AndrueC]

2 hours ago, Ten Ninety said:

The dashboard figures are not accurate (probably about 7-8% optimistic) but they are actually likely to be more consistent than your own measurements, unless you go to the same petrol station and use the same pump each time. There is huge variance between the point at which pumps 'cut off' and you only need to be on a slight slope to change the amount you put in by quite a margin. That will throw any 'brim to brim' calculations completely off. 

I usually do fill at the same pump (always the same station) when commuting but will concede that the really bad discrepancy was when I filled up away from home. But still - I'd have expected the next fill - back at my normal pump - to have compensated with a really good result. Instead I think it was about the same figure. I'll be making that trip again some time in the next couple of months and will probably not do any local running around. Just 60 mph up and down for a round trip of 360 miles. It'll be interesting to see what mpg that claims and actually does.

Quote

What shape and engine is your Corolla? You clearly know what you're doing when it comes to eco driving, but if you've got a 2.0 TS with 17" performance tyres on it, then a 'real' 58mpg on a 12 mile commute might be the best you can expect. 

It's the 1.8 Excel hatchback which is why I'm a little disappointed. For sure it is more fuel efficient than the Jazz (bigger car, probably 10% lower fuel consumption) but I was hoping to average over 60 mpg. At least during early summer and autumn.

The important thing, though, is that I love the car. And even if it's not returning the fuel consumption I expected that just gives me a challenge. And the HSD is a great tool for eking the miles out of a litre of petrol. Working out how just how/when to lift off to maximise use of the Battery.

I'll consider your advice about slightly using the brakes but it goes against several decades of driving habit to touch the brake pedal if I don't actually want to stop 🙂

Oh and the scoring system is mad. It usually awards me 85% or higher (the best I got was a 92%) but occasionally I'll get something in the 70%s for no obvious reason.

[TonyHSD]

Plus one for the technics you guys described, I am using them all the time, I am doing exceptionally high miles per year and any mile and any penny counts . Very often in the summer especially I get the greeting on the dash : excellent fuel economy, I asked my GF are you getting this and she replied., I have never see that before and I know she likes to drive like manual car and  spirit driving style. 

 

[AndrueC]

3 hours ago, AndrueC said:

I'll consider your advice about slightly using the brakes but it goes against several decades of driving habit to touch the brake pedal if I don't actually want to stop 🙂

 

Oops, @Ten Ninety, I misread your post. You were talking about lifting off and coasting. Yup - I try do that whereever terrain and following traffic allows. I'm pretty good at activating electric mode now. One technique I've been working on is lifting off then allowing the car to slow while running in electric mode as I approach lower speed limits. There's a village half way along my commute that's at the top of a hill and by doing this I can run on electric for a mile rather than the half a mile through the village.

[Catlover]

I too am light footed on the brakes, prefer to read the road ahead anticipating reasons why to slow down long before I get to the hazard. But I also conscious that using brakes lightly can cause the back brake to seize through lack of use, after all the hybrid system “brakes” before friction brakes are applied. So, when I am reversing out of my drive I press hard on the foot brake in an attempt to keep everything moving (but only do this when safe to do so).i do the same when the roads are very “quiet” when approaching traffic lights on red, when safe, rather then just come to a slow stop, apply heavy pressure just in the last couple mile per hour.

[Mick F]

I'm a gentle and considerate driver and a long-standing member of the Institute of Advanced Motorists.

I can get 60odd mpg from our Yaris Hybrid, but not locally at all.  Hills like wot we have round here kill any decent economy.  We can't get out of the village without two miles of steepish uphills, and then the next ones come thick and fast after that.  We usually come home with all eight bars full on the Battery, but electric drive alone won't even get us out of the drive and onto the roads.

Economy for us is in the high forties mpg.  Still good, and the best car in this regard we have ever owned.

Mick.

[Ten Ninety]

13 hours ago, Catlover said:

I too am light footed on the brakes, prefer to read the road ahead anticipating reasons why to slow down long before I get to the hazard. But I also conscious that using brakes lightly can cause the back brake to seize through lack of use, after all the hybrid system “brakes” before friction brakes are applied. So, when I am reversing out of my drive I press hard on the foot brake in an attempt to keep everything moving (but only do this when safe to do so).i do the same when the roads are very “quiet” when approaching traffic lights on red, when safe, rather then just come to a slow stop, apply heavy pressure just in the last couple mile per hour.

Good advice, Joe. A regular hard stop also minimises the likelihood of the fabled 'creaking brakes' syndrome making an appearance.

23 hours ago, AndrueC said:

It's the 1.8 Excel hatchback which is why I'm a little disappointed. For sure it is more fuel efficient than the Jazz (bigger car, probably 10% lower fuel consumption) but I was hoping to average over 60 mpg. At least during early summer and autumn.

I was about to say that I'd also be disappointed with those figures for the 1.8, when I checked the Toyota website and found the hatchback Corolla Excel has 18" wheels. That is almost certainly going to be the 'problem'. Not only do they have a relatively large contact patch and therefore more drag, I can't imagine they'll be wearing 'eco' tyres either which will have a massive impact. Although they do look !Removed! fantastic! 

For reference, I found the C-HR suffered similarly. I had one on an extended test drive and could barely coax it to mid-50s mpg (and that was indicated, not real). Whilst that also had housebrick aerodynamics to contend with, the big wheels and tyres certainly had a substantial part to play. 

On 6/29/2019 at 7:34 PM, AndrueC said:

Oh and the scoring system is mad. It usually awards me 85% or higher (the best I got was a 92%) but occasionally I'll get something in the 70%s for no obvious reason.

If you've had the temerity to push into the 'Power' zone, you will be punished! You're right, though, it is more than a little random. I've seen 98 on it, but seemingly no amount of hardcore hypermiling can persuade it to award 100.

[Ten Ninety]

8 hours ago, Mick F said:

I can get 60odd mpg from our Yaris Hybrid, but not locally at all.  Hills like wot we have round here kill any decent economy.  We can't get out of the village without two miles of steepish uphills, and then the next ones come thick and fast after that.  We usually come home with all eight bars full on the battery, but electric drive alone won't even get us out of the drive and onto the roads.

Agreed - hills are a killer for economy. I went to Cornwall on holiday in the Gen3 and my usual 70+ average didn't get much past 60 in that week!

[Ten Ninety]

22 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Plus one for the technics you guys described, I am using them all the time, I am doing exceptionally high miles per year and any mile and any penny counts . Very often in the summer especially I get the greeting on the dash : excellent fuel economy, I asked my GF are you getting this and she replied., I have never see that before and I know she likes to drive like manual car and  spirit driving style. 

Sounds like my wife - she never saw that message in the Auris either! On the plus side, it never suffered from creaky brakes because she was always braking late.

[AndrueC]

Yeah, the wheels could be the problem. Whilst I've always tried to minimise my environmental impact I'm pragmatic about it. I've always believed that the answers lie in developing better technology rather than giving up what we have. The wheels...meh. They just look damn good 🙂

[mircea99]

Hi everyone, also which drive mode do you think is the most perfect, eco,normal or power mode ?
Thanks


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[Catlover]

Since getting my Gen4 11 months ago I kept it in Eco unless needed elsewhere. However maybe 3 months ago I put it into Normal mode and kept it there, apart from the odd occasion I thought Power mode was needed. I not noticed any difference in mpg, but feel comfortable with a more positive throttle response, though I know how to be more gentle with the throttle for “normal” situations.

[TonyHSD]

Here same , just in Normal mode.