New Law -Hybrid cars must make a noise.

[Harters]

20 minutes ago, BhxTrev said:

surely that's nearly as bad as drivers using mobile phones while driving? 

Or wearing headphones whilst driving, I still can’t believe it when I see it!

[FROSTYBALLS]

The new legislation requires the sound generators to produce sound between 56 and 75 decibels, up to a speed of 12.4mph and to differentiate between acceleration and deceleration. No requirement for the sound to be audible inside the car.

Will it really be much different in terms of noise levels to current petrol/diesel engined vehicles when in traffic?

Despite being due to exit the EU, the UK has adopted this new legislation. 

Current vehicles fitted with sound generations may not comply with the new requirements, so direct comparisons may not be relevant.

At the end of the day, it should be safer for other road users (in a similar way that daylight running lights are), and especially those who have visual impairments, to be able to hear approaching EV's and hybrids. OK drivers may have a minor inconvenience, but that is all it is.

[Heidfirst]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/01/futuristic-sounds-to-make-electric-buses-safer-hit-wrong-note

[BhxTrev]

Hi Frosty, 56 to 75 decibels doesn't sound too bad considering many tyres rate within this range. Decibels are difficult to understand since the noise level depends on the distance from the source i.e. the nearer you are the louder the noise & vice versa.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Presumably the upper range will be used when accelerating.

[Mick F]

We had a 2001 Renault Clio 1.6 16v and the engine was almost silent at walking pace.  Many was the time pedestrians were surprised to see a car right behind them.  This issue isn't new at all, and it isn't the advent of EVs that have brought it.

I'm a keen cyclist.  Riding gently in towns, pedestrians are absolutely shocked that a rider is there.  It seems to me that pedestrians listen rather than look.

Could it be that the problem has been brought about by the rise of the diesel car?

What happened with the "audible warning of approach" ................. a bicycle bell or a friendly toot on the horn?

Will pedestrians eventually learn to LOOK?

Mick.

[lovec1990]

My opinion this idea is good for helping people with blindness, but if people do not hear normal car even this active sound would not solve a thing plus if it only produce sound up to 12.4mph they may not hear you untill you are very close to them becouse you slowed down bellow 12.4mph becouse here in Slovenia there are very little streets with speed limit  bellow 12.4mph 

[Catlover]

Hi Ziga, there are very few streets in the UK where the speed limit is below 12mph, I cant think of any at this moment.  In an area where there is a school the max speed limit is now 20mph, that is pretty common.

For the benefit of the disadvantaged ie the visually impaired, I think it is a good move, and individuals need to put aside there personal preferences ie I bought a car because it was quiet, I dont want to fit a noise maker.

[Mick F]

I don't think it is a good move.

Bicycles are silent, so are good quality petrol cars.  They always have been, so what's the issue with EV cars?

I think it's because people have got used to noisy rattly diesels and that's what the pedestrians want ............ so they can hear and not need to look.

Visually impaired people have been around for ever.  They don't walk into people on the pavement, and when crossing the road, they use crossings.  All cars (except diesels) have been and will continue to be almost silent at low speeds.  We don't seem to be legislating for noise makers on all vehicles including bicycles.

Mick.

[PeteB]

If you need evidence for what a truly crazy place the world has become, look no further...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cyclist-knock-over-woman-phone-compensation-court-london-a8969731.html

[FROSTYBALLS]

Although it is off-topic, if the cyclist had had insurance, he wouldn't be in such dire financial straits.

In the UK, a bicycle is considered as a vehicle, and, in my view, legally, cyclists should be required to have insurance if the cycles are used on public roads - same as any other vehicle.

Back to the original topic, please.

[wass]

Hmm so bicycles have to be fitted with the same noise simulator too do they?Another issue which occurs to me is  aren't silent vehicles travelling at speeds in excess of 12 miles per hour likely to be a tad more dangerous than vehicles travelling slower than Roger Bannister pace?It amused me the think  that the councils are lowering speed limits to 20mph for licensed vehicles only

( speeding bicycles rarely get prosecuted because they are unregistered) thereby increasing pollution and here's europe increasing noise pollution when travelling slowly too. The poor people who live in these built up areas who misguidedly campaign for 20mph speed limits instead of insisting that the law enforce the 30 limit properly.

Maybe bicycles could be fitted with noise makers which simulate heavy breathing sounds so the blithering idiots who can't be bothered to look before they cross the road don't get run into. Isnt it about time that the world got sensible with stuff? Why can't pedestrians who are texting and wearing earphones be heavily fined for causing a road traffic incident in addition to unecessary burden on the NHS?

I also just had to do a quick check that July1st wasnt the europe equivalent to April 1st.

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 minute ago, wass said:

Hmm so bicycles have to be fitted with the same noise simulator too do they?

No the legislation applies to four wheeled vehicles.

[Mick F]

The legislation applies to four wheeled vehicles, but not all the other silent vehicles.

The legislation needs re-legislating then, or re-thinking about it?

I was walking the dog this afternoon, and as we live in a rural Cornish setting, the lanes are narrow and winding with high banks and hills.  Which cars can me and the dog hear?  All the ones going up the hills, but none of then coming down the hills ............ except bigger vehicles and diesel vehicles generally perhaps.  All the others are utterly silent and doing far less than 12mph ........... and bicycles too.

Not seen an electric vehicle all year either.

Mick.

[lovec1990]

but i swear it i heard that gen 4 has this sound already

[Catlover]

10 minutes ago, lovec1990 said:

but i swear it i heard that gen 4 has this sound already

Not on mine.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Manufacturers may fit sound generators before they're legally required to.  However, from an early post, the 2019 Rav4 doesn't have a sound generator, so it is doubtful the Prius has one - even the 2019 facelift.

[lovec1990]

here at 0:31

[FROSTYBALLS]

Which is obviously a US market Prius - and in the US sound generators will become mandatory on all new EV's and hybrids from 1st September 2019. Some manufacturers will have fitted sound generators before the legislation comes into force in the US.

The legislation, which is the subject of this topic, is for the EU and is different to that in the US. In the EU EV/hybrids new Type Approvals are required to have sound generators fitted from 1st July 2019, and from 1st July 2021 all new EV/hybrids will be required to have them.

Different markets, different legislation.

[Eddie G]

Agree with Mick F spot on points, what happened to Stop Look And Listen! do people just get more lazy minded as they get older? 

[Eddie G]

Also agree with you Wass, it amazers me seeing people look at their phones before crossing roads some with head phones in and it would surprise me if they switched the volume off before crossing roads. 

[lovec1990]

8 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Which is obviously a US market Prius - and in the US sound generators will become mandatory on all new EV's and hybrids from 1st September 2019. Some manufacturers will have fitted sound generators before the legislation comes into force in the US.

still we can say Prius already has this tech, but just in selected countries.

I think sounds that this systems make are from funny to anoying for example Renault Zoe sounds like spaceship cant they give it sound of gasoline car engine

 

[PeteB]

On 7/1/2019 at 12:00 PM, QuantumFireball said:

...I drove a Leaf which apparently had it but didn't really notice the noise at all, at least from inside.

but then some diesels aren't audible inside, but outside sound like a 50 year old Massey Furgusson tractor - I know this, the b***ders often park next to me while I'm chilling at the beach and leave their engines running (obviously not seen recent news reports about the fines for leaving an engine running (even in traffic jams) increasing to £100 for first offence - not sure how they'll catch people though!).

[Catlover]

12 hours ago, lovec1990 said:

still we can say Prius already has this tech, but just in selected countries.

I think sounds that this systems make are from funny to anoying for example Renault Zoe sounds like spaceship cant they give it sound of gasoline car engine

Could that be the normal sound an electric vehicle makes when slowing down, they are not silent.

[Harters]

12 hours ago, Catlover said:

Could that be the normal sound an electric vehicle makes when slowing down, they are not silent.

No, the default 'pedestrian horn' as they call it on the Zoe is akin to a spaceship and is virtually just as audible inside the car as it is outside which is probably due to the lact of sound insulation.  It used to annoy the heck out in me in crawling traffic moaning away and that's is a situation where I would turn it off.  There were two other noises that you could choose from but they were equally annoying.  I think the US Prius sound generator is pretty good in comparison.