2019 Rav4 Dashcam fitting

[Malop]

I had the new Nextbase 422 Dashcam fitted by my dealer about a week after getting my new RAV4. I got the optional rear facing camera with it, so it works much like the Nextbase Duo.

Dealer fitted the camera to the passenger side, apparently because of lack of space anywhere else and having to keep to the rules about the Dashcam not sitting more than 40mm into the windscreen wiper area.

I now have two problems, one it sits above the windscreen wiper area (passenger side doesn’t clear the whole windscreen) so rain hides the road and if the passenger puts their visor down it blocks the rear facing camera.

Anyone got any pictures of how their Dashcam is installed they could share with me?

[Mike169]

Hi pop down to Halfords if you have one near you, they fit loads so have lots of experience and see if you can pick their brains/get them to relocate it...………….just a suggestion. Mike.

[Southern Softy]

Paul, PeteB posted photos of his due. Page 9 of the delivery times post.

hope this helps

[Avalon]

Unless you moonlight as a public/private hire vehicle, trying to be TOC’s answer to Fake Taxi (Fake TOCxi?) or have some bizarre need to film your passengers heads, then Nextbase add-on camera’s or any of the single body front & rear facing cameras on the market make little to no sense for anyone. The only exception is possibly something like a roadster (2 seat, small cabin). Also surely you discussed the install with the dealer prior to letting them loose with it? Toyota will always air on the side of caution, eg they can’t install something somewhere that will require them to fail you at MOT time unless you specifically request them to do otherwise and presumably sign a disclaimer.

If you wanted a front and rear camera set-up, a kit that has dedicated front and rear screen mounted hardware is always going to be better. Something like the well reviewed Viofo A129 for example, combine it with the 3 pin hardwire kit and it sets the standard for how this should be done, prevents the Battery discharging below a safe level and triggers parking mode reliably, all this for less than you’d pay just for the basic 422. Installed behind the rear view mirror it is virtually invisible to the driver, passengers or other road users. The dedicated rear camera can be mounted in a suitable location on the rear window giving a better field of vision and more importantly better evidence if you ever need it. Your set-up will show ‘surprised passenger’ with very limited field of vision to the rear to give useful context.

As to your specific issue, you can either are-locate it to a central position (hope your dealer didn’t chop the cable short or it’ll be a crimp/solder/heat-shrink job to extend), down side is it would technically need removing for an MOT and if you are in an accident a half competent claims handler may raise it as a mitigating factor to dispute liability as it clearly wouldn’t pass an MOT (this is what Pete seems to have chosen). The other option is to try and move it so the body of the camera is as high as possible behind the mirror with the main camera in the swept area and the add-on camera protruding on the passenger side of the mirror, from memory the standard mount on a 422 and the extension of the primary lens would make this tricky, at the very least you will need a new sticky pad and I suspect it will still be awkward, i’ve not had a look at the new RAV to see what space is like behind the rear-view. The other option is a dedicated rear camera and try to flog the add-on camera on, but if you are going that route, you may as well replace the lot with something more suitable.

Either way, dealers should not be used to install  anything other than official products, anything else is asking for agro unless you specifically need to use the supply/fit angle to avoid disputed liability when issues arise at a future date.

[PeteB]

I'm pretty happy with the setup in my car.  It's very rare I have anyone in the back, and I don't remember having 3 in the back for 10-20 years or more!

These pics show the position of the camera from the driver's eye level, the previous pic was taken low because the question was about the mounting of it.  I think it would be ok MOT wise, but at worst it might have to be reattached 5 mm or so higher (the kit includes a spare 3M adhesive pad).

The two people in the back are barely visible, and it gives a clear enough view out of the back window.

My previous car had a dedicated rear camera (also fitted by my dealer), but wiring that in was tedious (and expensive), and when the front camera had problems would have been a nightmare had I chosen to replace with a different brand/model.  For my purposes, this system is an acceptable compromise and better than having no rear camera at all.

I visited a dealer in Bedfordshire yesterday with a friend's car and the was display of the Nextbase camera on the Service Counter so it does seem to confirm this is a Toyota (UK) wide offering (which I thought already based on the products being integrated into the car ordering screens).

It's disappointing a manufacturer like Toyota hasn't long ago seized the opportunity to offer a built in Dashcam system, especially now as they could utilise the camera already built into the front screen for the safety features and the excellent rear camera offered in other countries for a camera-based rear view mirror.

[Mike169]

Hi Paul.

Not in answer to your question but yes I do agree why haven't car manufacturers started offering cams, front, rear or both as an optional extra or even as standard.....very good comment.

Mike. 

[PeteB]

Paul?

I meant to add, replay could be via the infotainment screen too, with PIN security if considered necessary.  

Regards Pete

[Malop]

Thanks for the extra photos PeteB, definitely help.  Looks like a weekend job of carefully removing the 3M sticky mount and reinstalling

[Heidfirst]

On 7/9/2019 at 4:30 PM, Mike169 said:

Hi Paul.

Not in answer to your question but yes I do agree why haven't car manufacturers started offering cams, front, rear or both as an optional extra or even as standard.....very good comment.

Mike. 

Some have (PSA, BMW/Mini etc.) Even Toyota in the UK now offer a Nextbase derived one as a dealer-fit option.

[PeteB]

1 minute ago, Heidfirst said:

... Toyota in the UK now offer a Nextbase derived one as a dealer-fit option.

sure, and this is what I've opted for.

What I'm talking about is a system built in at the factory, where possible using equipment already in the car, such as front safety camera, infotainment screen & Speakers and GPS.  It Could then incorporate extra info such as lights in use, indicators, horn use, etc.

Ideally, if not standard, it could be a modular upgrade.

I've read somewhere there's an EC rule coming (that UK will adopt) that from around 2022 cars will have to have some sort of "black box", but I've seen no details of what it would need to record.

[Avalon]

Just because Toyota get a nice margin on Nextbase kit and have agreed distribution rights/approved installer status doesn’t mean Nextbase are good or Toyota are decent value or the best people to fit it sadly. It does mean that your dealer has another cross sell option to push and be targeted/rewarded on.

Pete’s point is a decent one, black box logging of basic telemetry such as GPS location, speed, gforce, brake/throttle position, steering input, lights etc. Is brilliant.... until your insurer is given access to it and starts using the data against you in the event of a claim, but it could be brilliant in the event of disputed liability.

[Mike169]

Hello All.

In years to come the black boxes that will fitted as standard to cars will tell the authorities if say you were doing 90mph on a motorway so deleting the need of speeding camera's, automatic speeding fines!

So without knowing you will get an envelope through the post as the GPS will 'clock' every car and calculate your speed, position, direction, etc, etc.

Big brother will be watching.

All quality hire cars have them fitted now, basically if they get stolen or if the hirer goes say on a track day then the hirer will know.

This is the future but it will happen.

Mike. 

[Catlover]

And that same black box surely can be used to detect uninsured cars being used on the road. So, bring it on, welcome it, that should lower insurance premiums for others, more importantly potentially save all the heartache of parents/partners because loved ones have been killed by non insured/irresponsible drivers. Bring it on I say.

[Avalon]

2 hours ago, Catlover said:

And that same black box surely can be used to detect uninsured cars being used on the road. So, bring it on, welcome it, that should lower insurance premiums for others, more importantly potentially save all the heartache of parents/partners because loved ones have been killed by non insured/irresponsible drivers. Bring it on I say.

The obvious issue being an insured car can’t detect who is driving. Also if someone is killed, the last thing the family are thinking about is who’s insured, death payouts from insurance companies to relatives tend to me insulting sadly.

[PeteB]

9 hours ago, Avalon said:

Just because Toyota get a nice margin on Nextbase kit and have agreed distribution rights/approved installer status doesn’t mean Nextbase are good or Toyota are decent value or the best people to fit it sadly. It does mean that your dealer has another cross sell option to push and be targeted/rewarded on.

Pete’s point is a decent one, black box logging of basic telemetry such as GPS location, speed, gforce, brake/throttle position, steering input, lights etc. Is brilliant.... until your insurer is given access to it and starts using the data against you in the event of a claim, but it could be brilliant in the event of disputed liability.

I had done lots of research on the current crop of dashcams before I realised Toyota had the deal with Nextbase, but when I saw their offering I decided the model I chose was close enough to my requirements and the price, fully fitted and including the hard wire kit was not unreasonable considering it was a mainstream brand and not a £30 eBay offering.

On my last two cars I bought the dashcams directly from the manufacturer or franchise holder (RoadHawk & Road Angel) and got my dealer to fit them.

The black box is like any two-edged sword, it could be a saviour or crucifer!  The Police can also seek to obtain access to dashcams and black boxes after a serious or fatal collision (although sometimes this has been challenged in the courts), and I understand in the past they've sometimes gleaned useful data from car ECUs that control things like ABS, ESP and airbags.

I had thought the type of 'black box' proposed as a future legal requirement for new vehicles was of the data (and possibly image) recorder type (like those on aircraft), I hadn't been thinking about the over the air aspect, but from what I've read it will be  a recorder in the car, probably with some protection against impact, submergence, fire and tampering:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/105413/all-new-cars-to-have-black-box-data-loggers-under-eu-laws

[Avalon]

All three of the names you mention with reference to dashcams have at various points in history re-branded 3rd party hardware such as the £30 eBay tat. It amazes me that if you print a western brand name on something, people will pay 2-3x the price, but it’s the same with CCTV, TV’s, laptops etc. even Alienware/Dell used to buy in its high end chassis from a brand you’d likely never heard of and sell them at twice the price with minor cosmetic changes to the case, it was the same OEM PC world used for some of its high end stuff.

Black box wise it still doesn’t prevent a drunk or uninsured driver getting behind the wheel, but it could reduce the disputed liability scenarios for insured drivers. Front and rear recording, basic telemetry data, enough to show who brakes and who didn’t, who’s indicator was used etc. and some basic speed info. The issue is, do you really want every single journey you take to be monitored? Car companies can’t even get keyless security right, what are the odds they’ll protect your full travel history from anyone. The current generation of black box hardware is flawed, a young driver had his insurance revoked when telematics said he was doing nearly 70mph in a 30 zone, problem being about 10m away from the NSL road he was actually on doing NSL, was a estate access road with a 30 limit, the GPS data was a few meters out and suddenly he’s a dangerous driver. Based on that single action, he would have been forced to declare having had insurance cancelled on all future applications... for life. Also let’s take it to the next stage, part of the VED process requires you to pay a fixed charge per occasion you exceeded the speed limit, or your insurance provider has access to your driving data to decide what loading/discount they will apply based on when/how you drive etc. or your car’s warranty being voided because you’ve driven outside of the intended usage by taking it on a track etc.

As you say double edged sword, and once you start down this road, it’s very difficult to stop.

[Mike169]

Hi.

There are some very good comments on here.

One thing I noticed has not been mentioned yet is dashcams , although they provide 100% evidence in the scenario of someone pulling out on you they also record the speed you are doing on every trip and should you of been speeding and a crash occurs the Police have the right to remove your Dashcam and see the speed you were doing.

Another point also not mentioned by anybody many dashcams, including mine (Silent Witness SW010) brilliant resolution, anyway they have micro SD cards in them and they have to be formatted every 2-3 weeks as when you switch the car off the best way I can explain it is the recording leaves a small gap before the next ride but when the SD card is full it cannot record over the gaps.

I tried this and it's true, when my cards were new, 2 cars, they recorded everything but after about 3 weeks I wanted to check something on my SD card and it showed me pulling off my drive and then nothing.

I did not even know what formatting meant but basically when you but/get a micro SD card, mine are 32GB, you can fit up to and no more 128GB so it needs formatting less as obviously it holds more storage, well the micro card comes with an adapter so you can plug it into your PC and format it, that basically means it wipes it clean like a new one and it takes seconds and your computer will ask what you want to do with your SD card, just click format wait a few seconds and that's it.

People that leave their SD cards in for months basically they think 'well i'm ok I have a dashcam' but without formatting them on a regular basis they are as good as a chocolate teapot as the expression goes.

All of this has been confirmed by professional fitters, a very good shop close to where I live.

Regards to everybody, Mike.

[Avalon]

As someone who has been formatting things since the 80’s, you shouldn’t have to format an SD card in this scenario under normal circumstances, but cameras themselves have a feature that can cause you to have to.

A dash cam records at your chosen resolution continually, for simplicity let’s say it records 1GB/hr and you have a 32GB card (again i’m ignoring formatted capacity, actual bit-rate/resolution etc. and the 1024MB vs 1000MB definition for simplicity). Your dash cam therefore has the ability to record 32hrs of footage. Dashcams also break down the footage into segments, let’s say for simplicity they are 3 minutes long, so 20 per hour, so your camera will record up to 640 segments before overwriting the oldest segment.

here’s the problem: Dashcams have a G sensor to detect impacts and automatically ‘lock’ a segment where an impact is detected, this means that it can’t be over written. It’s a good idea, last thing you want to happen is you have an accident where you are injured and the only video available 2 days later when you visit your car is your car sat in a recovery yard because it over wrote the video of the incident. Besides it’s no big deal, you have 640 segments, so where’s the harm? Now imagine you go over 3 speed bumps, one coming out of your estate, one past a school on the way to work and one in the car park at work, you do the same coming back, as many of the g sensor thresholds are set as quite low by default, that’s 6 potential segments that are locked per day or 30 in a working week. Chuck in pot holes, weekend use, the odd curb you may park on to drop someone off etc. and you could easily have 50 locked segments in a full 7 day week, 200 in a month and after a few months, your card is full of locked segments and you can’t record any more to it. This is when you need to format it.

Most cameras have the ability to format a card without the need to remove it and do so on a computer.

[Parts-King]

I had a look at my saved footage last night, somebody nearly side swiped me on a roundabout, then as I sounded my horn, he blasted me back and gave me the finger! For sanity I just wanted to see the incident again, and sure enough he moved to the right in his lane to overtake a lorry in front of him. One thing I forgot is that it records all the sound, the radio you were listening to, and in my case, the mouthful of expletives   

[Avalon]

You can (usually) turn audio off you know 😄

[PeteB]

19 minutes ago, Avalon said:

You can (usually) turn audio off you know 😄

There's actually a button on mine for that, so no need to go into menus.

However, it's another two edged sword, but I prefer to keep it on just in case there's an incident where it's relevant whether horns were used, whether indicators are used on my vehicle (even though you can't tell which side, and other background noises (like tyres) and whether anyone says anything pertinent in the immediate aftermath.

The PC software for the Nextbase does allow sound to be suppressed subsequently if the edit facility is used (to trim or merge sections) to my singing along to the USB music doesn't need to be heard! Of course, if footage was needed by the authorises for evidence I'm sure they'd want the original recording.

[Parts-King]

28 minutes ago, Avalon said:

You can (usually) turn audio off you know 😄

Yes, I did opt to leave it on when I set it up, it has been mildly amusing to anyone I show it to

[Avalon]

Perhaps you should delete Britney’s greatest hits from the playlist... or at least stop singing along quite so loudly 😂

[Parts-King]

8 minutes ago, Avalon said:

Perhaps you should delete Britney’s greatest hits from the playlist... or at least stop singing along quite so loudly 😂

No chance, you should see me in her hot pants

[Avalon]

1 minute ago, Parts-King said:

No chance, you should see me in her hot pants

You realise therapy is even more expensive than a set of rear dust guards for a 4.2 right?