Hybrid Air Conditioning

[Mick F]

Our aircon works well ...................... but only when the weather isn't too hot.

Under perhaps 22dec, it's fine.  Over that temperature, it works poorly and the hotter the poorer it is.  The other day it was indicated at 28deg and although the air coming from the vents was cold, there just wasn't enough of it to cool the cabin even on full fan.  The car is due a service later this month, so maybe I'll mention this.

Is this a design issue as it's an electrical air conditioner, or do we have a fault?  I can't remember how it performed last year or what the temperatures were, but last year I had no complaints at all.

Mick.

 

[lovec1990]

do you have car in ECO mode?

[Mick F]

2 hours ago, lovec1990 said:

do you have car in ECO mode?

No.  Checked that, but rarely use it anyway.

Thanks, Mick.

[Mooly]

The symptoms point to the system being slightly low on refrigerant which I suppose after 5 years isn't unexpected. I would suspect nothing more than a simple regas is needed... Hybrid 2014 model year, I wonder if that will use R134a or R1234yf. Have a look under the bonnet and look for a sticker. The later is much more expensive and as such might be worth shopping around.   

[bathtub tom]

I've the same problem with my non-hybrid. Main dealer wanted to give it an air-con service, but I baulked at the cost. Did some research, measured the temperature at the vents and found it to be 11 degrees cooler than ambient which was within expected range.

Asking around, it seems the air-con on Yaris is considered to be carp!

[Parts-King]

Measure the temp at the vents, it should be 10C or lower, any higher and it will need gassing, which should be done every few years anyway. The gas used is 1234YF which is very expensive to purchase, and one of the reasons it is a little more expensive to service your Hybrid A/C 

[Mick F]

Measuring the temp eh? I can do that as I have a thermometer available. It'll have to be later today or tomorrow as Mrs Mick F has use of the car at the mo.

At what temp should I set the aircon?  Lo?  ie as low as it will go?

We had a Renault Clio from brand new in 2001.  Sold it in 2017.  Aircon was never off, as aircon is just that - air conditioning.  It can be hot, cold or anything in between.  The car had done 100,000miles when we sold it and the aircon worked as well when we sold it as it did when brand new.  Keeping it on keeps the seals good.

Never had a regassing or any maintenance other than changing the cabin filter a couple of times.  The aircon on our Yaris has been on since we bought the car in 2017 though the car was laid up for some months before we bought it.

Mick.

 

 

 

[Mooly]

Interesting that you mention the car was laid for a while before you got it:

 

 

[Mick F]

33 minutes ago, Mooly said:

Interesting that you mention the car was laid for a while before you got it:

This is another subject!!!

We bought the car from Snows at Paignton.  Good deal, very friendly, no issues.  I would recommend them any time.

It was later that I joined My Toyota and checked on the service history as although the service book was perfect, it seemed that there was a "hole" in the history.  It had only done 30miles between 27Mar17 to when we bought it 24Aug17.  Snows reckon - though they were a bit vague when I asked them - that it had been moved around the Snows dealerships to get the best exposure for it.  I don't believe it.  I reckon that there was some finance on it and it had been repossessed, or the original owner had personal difficulties and the car laid up until it was sorted.

No proof, and to be honest, it doesn't matter anyway. If the aircon suffered from non-use for five months, it wouldn't surprise me.

The issue though, is that generally it works well.  This morning we were out in 22deg and it was fine.  I think it's just when the outside temp goes much further up 24/25/26+ or more that it can't cope properly.  This is my opinion of course, but I can't remember having the same thoughts about it last summer.

Mrs Mick F has the car this afternoon, and the temp outside is now at 1.20pm 28degC in a cloudless Cornish sky.  She's not a fussy about stuff like I am so she may not notice. 😀

Mick.

[Parts-King]

Make sure the car is up to temperature, set the AC as low is it goes, put the fan on high through the vents, place your thermometer in the vent. It should be 10C or less, if it is less then it's working as it should be, if it is over 10 degrees it needs servicing, one of the checks after servicing is to do that same test. When serviced, the refrigerant is recovered, and the correct quantity of gas AND oil is put back in, this is important to keep everything lubed.   

[Mick F]

Thank you PK.

I'll get back to this after I've had a test.  May be later, or may be tomorrow.

Mick.

[bathtub tom]

11 minutes ago, Parts-King said:

Make sure the car is up to temperature, set the AC as low is it goes, put the fan on high through the vents, place your thermometer in the vent. It should be 10C or less,

Do you mean 10C, or 10C lower than the outside temperature?

[Parts-King]

10c on the temp gauge, the air coming out of the vents should be 10c or less

[Mick F]

31 minutes ago, Parts-King said:

10c on the temp gauge, the air coming out of the vents should be 10c or less

 ............. with the aircon set to its lowest setting.  Ours is Lo.

Thermometer ready and waiting for Mrs Mick F to drive home.  Meanwhile, I'm having a beer or two and just come in from the patio @ 28degC in the shade.

Mick.

[Parts-King]

Lucky you......it's currently errrr, naff weather here

[Mick F]

She came back, and I went to the car as soon as she came in.  The car had been driven for half an hour back home.

I have a Garmin Montana and a Garmin Tempe.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/p/523640

https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/p/pn/010-11092-30

I inserted the (small) Tempe in between the grilles of the vents and left the Montana running whilst connected to the Tempe, started the car and put the aircon to Lo ....... as low as it will go ............... and with the system in Auto.  I left it for 20mins running on the drive outside.

12degC was showing when I went back. 😢

Looks like it needs a recharge.  No doubt Toyota will "charge" an arm and a leg to do it.  Hopefully I can find somewhere independent who can do it at a reasonable cost.

Is there anything specific about this system in a Yaris Hybrid that is different to a "normal" car?  Can your local independent garage do it ok?

Mick.

[Parts-King]

2 minutes ago, Mick F said:

 

Looks like it needs a recharge.  No doubt Toyota will "charge" an arm and a leg to do it.  Hopefully I can find somewhere independent who can do it at a reasonable cost.

Is there anything specific about this system in a Yaris Hybrid that is different to a "normal" car?  Can your local independent garage do it ok?

Mick.

YES: It is NOT a normal gas, see my earlier post, it has 1234YF gas, have a deal with your dealer, they are best placed to do it properly as they will have the correct equipment 

[Mick F]

Thanks.  Looks like the next service could be more expensive then!  Last one at 30,000miles plus MOT was £330 as a full service.  I expected the next one at 40,000miles would be cheaper as it's an interim service (plus MOT).  Looks like another bit of dosh to pay out on top as it's best that it's done properly.

I said years ago, that I would never have another car without aircon.  Auto Climate Control is even better. Leave it on permanently and the car internals feel fresh and clean and at the right temperature.

Mick.

[Mooly]

It will be interesting to see what Toyota quote price wise. I just casually searched to see what was available and found one AC specialist quoting prices of £189 for small cars and £270 for larger (over 500g refrigerant). I could only find R1234yf priced in dollars to try and see the cost price but it looks to be around the $75 mark for 454g (a pound weight) which I imagine would be around the amount needed. In any case a regass recovers the existing refrigerant, its not lost. So someone is making a huge profit somewhere down the line.

[Mick F]

10 hours ago, Mooly said:

I wonder if that will use R134a or R1234yf. Have a look under the bonnet and look for a sticker. 

I'll check tomorrow.  Where might the sticker be?  I can't remember when I last opened the bonnet or what it looks like under there.

Apart from anything else, it'll be interesting and I can ask locally about it.  There's a place not far from here saying that they can do an aircon recharge from £60odd but nothing to say what vehicles and to what standard.

Googling, I see that R1234YF is a new idea and is less polluting than the older stuff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,3,3,3-Tetrafluoropropene

Mick.

[Mooly]

On the underside of the bonnet is one typical place. You shouldn't need to hunt for it.

 

 

[Mick F]

40 minutes ago, Mooly said:

On the underside of the bonnet is one typical place. You shouldn't need to hunt for it.

This is ours.

It seems like it's R134a refrigerant.  I wonder if that's cheaper than the R1234YF and if it's the usual easily available one?

Mick.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Yes it is

[Devon Aygo]

1 hour ago, Mick F said:

This is ours.

It seems like it's R134a refrigerant.  I wonder if that's cheaper than the R1234YF and if it's the usual easily available one?

Mick.

R134a is conventional AC gas and not particularly expensive however being a Hybrid you must ensure whoever recovers and regasses the AC system uses the correct ND11 oil ( usually means a separate AC machine just for Hybrids or a machine that can recover and inject multiple oils ) as a hybrid uses an electric compressor and requires ND11 oil as it is not electrically conductive, normal cars with belt driven compressors generally use ND8 oil which is electrically conductive and will most likely short the compressor.

[Anthony Poli]

Just in case I have missed it being mentioned earlier.
It is advisable to run the air con at least every week to circulate the refrigerant and thus keep everything lubricated, may help to avoid losing the gas too.

Also the air filter can get clogged and that can reduce the effect of the air con too


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